Pack18Alex

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

Also, a quick caveat for my pack, we're a Jewish Unit chartered to a Synagogue. That means that all food must be Kosher, the Jewish Sabbath must be observed, etc. Since most Council/District events take place on Saturday, if we want to participate, we're camping for the weekend.

Pinewood Derby: of my 25 cub scouts, maybe 3 have dads who have ANY tools, so we have to do all the construction at meeting times.

Community Events: we participate in Jewish community functions, etc., those need to be coordinated by adults.

We signed up to do BSA Adopt-a-School, that's 4 small service projects during the year, someone has to do it.

We aim to do 3 meetings (2 den, 1 pack), 1 Sunday or Weekend event a month. I think that that's pretty good for a Cub Scout Pack. But that still means 9 things to plan that go beyond a weekly meeting for 8 boys.

I think you're also coming across it from the Boy Scout side, not the Cub Scout side.

But on the Boy Scout side, the need for committee planning is very serious. Our Troop committee chair has to plan around multiple different school schedules (non-denominational Jewish, Orthodox Jewish, and secular public schools), Jewish and secular holidays, manage Kosher food to the standards that all families are comfortable, etc. In addition, middle and high school run later in the day here, and in the Winter, the Sabbath can start just a few hours later.

The boys are out having fun, but the big events that are adult planned are also critical for our raising our profile and recruiting. Cub Scouts are ALWAYS recruiting.

It also means getting someone to Round Table, Council Programming meetings, District Committee Meetings, planning meetings, etc., if for no other reason than to make sure that Council/District are aware of holidays they've never heard of and how it impacts our Unit.

We do all this so that the boys can have a program that exists. Our units are only 4 years old, we don't have 30 years of gear/projects in storage, everything is getting done by the seat of our pants. It's also hard to get leaders trained because most of the training is 1 day events on Saturdays, so we have to arrange our own Sunday training, plus publicize it to the District/Council so enough people attend to be viable since our Unit isn't that big.

These are all things that require an active committee, and they all benefit the program for the boys.

Cub Scouts LOVE getting bling and recognition. Take that away, and we don't retain the boys. Our retention rate is WAY higher now that we hand out more bling, but bling costs money, and money requires planning.

Retention tells me if the boys are liking the program. But I'm a by the numbers guy, so I know if the boys want more, they come back for more.

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

Maybe. Alternatively, having MBAs and Accountants on my committee means that our organization is able to plan and execute more "big events" that the boys love. We ended up with 5 Campouts this year (planned 7, two were council level one that got canceled). Last year, without a professional quality committee, we were lucky to get 3 off.

Our Troop doesn't have the business heavy committee, the Pack camps more than the troop.

Before we were able to organize our committee, the boys activities were lame, because there was no budget, no ability to fund supplies, etc. The activities were more adult-led in prior years because when you have no money and no time, it's easier for the adults to do things than teach the boys to do it. This was our first time earning the Summertime Activity Award in several years (since the Pack was founding in the Spring it's first year).

Your mileage may vary, of course. Some of it is also my parent body, I have parents NOT comfortable with any degree of scout craft that now have the ability to get involved organizing events.

But I'm relatively new at this. I don't know what the BSA paperwork level was like 15 years ago, maybe it was WAY LESS. I do know that our boys are earning more awards, doing more activities, having more gear to actually have real meals at campouts, etc., because of our strong committee that is able to fund things and organize them. BSA also has a lot of paperwork, leaders that are stronger at paperwork are able to arrange events for the boys to earn more awards.

Sorry if I appeared to be a snob, it wasn't meant that way.

From my work at the district level, more of our units fail because of financial collapse and leadership collapse than from parents unable to teach the boys Scout Skills.

Building and training leadership amongst adults, and managing finances, are things taught in business school. Having someone with that background is extremely helpful for managing that side of the Unit.

Can you get by without it, absolutely. But it helps to run a program if you know what's going on financially.

Yep, all parent volunteers here too.

 

We never had to "import professionals" from council, or elsewhere, to volunteer with the units. We also never kept track of (or cared) if the volunteers were blue, or white, collared.

 

Everyone has their own strengths (and weaknesses). We simply tried to use each volunteer where they were needed the most.

 

As for that bilge about teachers, blue collar workers (business owners?), and your average parent, not having a brain for budgeting, or anything financial, that is just, well, bilge. An/or rampant snobbery and ego.

 

If you can keep a family running in the black, with all bills paid, then you can manage to budget, forecast, and plan finances.

 

A pack near me has a leader who is a carpenter. He's taught the boys AMAZING woodworking skills, built amazing gateways, etc., because he has the skills to do it and the desire to train them.

Another few leaders I know are teachers, they are great at inspiring the youth and managing the process, they are also trained to do it.

Nothing about aptitude, all about skills. We have two MBAs, a CPA, and Financial Analyst on our Pack Committee. Our finances run smoothly, and the direct contact leaders don't have to worry about it.

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

One of my Den Leaders was SUPER AWESOME with the boys, but horrible at record keeping and tracking. One of the moms was an accountant, she stepped up as Assistant Den Leader, set up tracking spreadsheets, and organizing outings. She'd have been a HORRIBLE Den Leader, but turned the Den Around tracking achievements.

I'd kill for a few teacher/blue collar types for my direct line scout leaders. All of our den leaders are nervous around tools, pocket knives, etc. Those volunteers are CRITICAL for the boys running their program, because they are comfortable with the activities.

I was partnered with a pre school teacher/den leader @ CSDC, she taught me everything I know about running a good Den, and it's been HUGE. She gets the boys excited in a way I never knew how.

However, sitting on an event committee with her and I see her drowning in the administrative side. I volunteered for the committee to manage all that, but she just isn't comfortable with sending information to me to take care of what needs to be taken care of.

Our Treasurer works in the private sector, but spend a few years running finance for a mid-sized non-profit ($8M in revenue). She set up easy to use systems for tracking, we see how the budget shifts with fundraising, etc.

Our Pack Committee built some spreadsheets for tracking Popcorn, Camp Cards, etc. Nothing overly fancy, but a HUGE difference in terms of accountability and knowing what is going on. As a result, we've been able to up our targets by 4x because we know what's going on, we don't get stuck with inventory, and we know who has what.

That doesn't teach a Scout Lashings, but it let us buy/fix up a scout trailer (after trying for 4 years) and a real camp kitchen. Those things took money and organization. Prior to a real committee forming, den leaders funded things out of pocket, were going broke, and the pack didn't own anything to bring on campouts.

There is a reason that we have these tools in business, they work. The boys should never deal with them, your front line scouter personnel should never deal with them, but those tools are valuable for keeping a well funded program running year round.

You need to be careful with Tigers... involvement scares parents. If you have a younger sibling coming into Tigers, try the parent as the Tiger Den Leader. Otherwise, Tiger Den Leader is a crap shoot. As the school year goes on and the parents realize that your leaders don't have magical powers, just a cheap army-knock off shirt, they are easier to get to step up. At recruiting, it scares them.

I know Journey to Excellence is often maligned here, but I think it's really great. Our pack collapsed last year, my son had just joined as a Tiger and the old leadership threw in the towel. I was signed on as Tiger leader. The Bear leader stepped up a DL/CM, I stepped up as TL/ACM (later CC), and we went through and cleaned up our paper officers.

I grabbed JTE in March or April and started working down the checklist. We went to the formal Den Meeting/Pack Meeting split (prior to that, it was weekly Pack Meetings, with activities haphazard. I took tons of training, pushed the parents to do more training. Focused on the JTE goals (with a target of Bronze, we accidentally hit Gold).

Recruiting is key, it gets you non-burnt out parents and fresh scouts.

Retention is a sign of if you are doing things right or wrong.

Advancement: focusing on real advancement means the Cubs are learning and having fun.

Trained Leadership: SO key, it gets everyone to understand the program they are having.

Outdoor Activities: otherwise it becomes school work

Service Projects: making sure you do some fun ones makes the service part real

Trained Committee: last year, a paper committee. This year a real one, it's helping spread the burden.

Regular Committee meetings, aiming for 6 because of JTE resulted in 3 summer planning meetings, and this year's programming went smoothly.

JTE gives you the guide posts for running the back smoothly. I highly recommend starting there.

Recruit freshly, and find a real charter organization. We linked up with a Synagogue, and we do our kick-off alongside their Youth Program kickoff, our Pinewood Derby @ the Purim Carnival, and Space Derby @ Lag B'omer Bonfire. This raises our visibility in the community and gives us recruiting opportunities. We also put our announcement's (achievements) in the Synagogue announcements, which helps raise our profile as well.

My wife also started up a Girl Scout Troop for the sisters. Now families can come with all their children, and it's really helping.

Last year we had no Webelos, this year we started with 8 and will finish with 6, if 4 of them cross over into the Troop, those will be our first cross overs in three years.

We have families with hardships. It sucks. However, someone, NOT you, needs to talk to him about the pack appreciates his help, happy to write-off certain fees, and cover them to be a part of the pack. However, fundraising money is different, that's taking money that is owed to the pack, he can't get paid to be a scouter, even if he and his son get to go free.

Since he clearly took a "loan" on the amount, get him on a payment plan. He needs to come up with $20/week until it's paid off.

You're too close to the situation, but the difference between the pack covering his costs (writing off dues, etc.) and his essentially robbing from the pack treasury (money he is holding on behalf of the Pack, NOT his money) is another story.

But one thing, especially for families that are bad with money, ask them to turn in the money AS they sell, so they aren't tempted by a few hundred dollars sitting around the house when they have bills to pay. Have the treasurer track what they've paid in for sales as they go, and reconcile it at the end. It's a bit of work, but it makes it WAY easier.

The replacement of private civic life with public functions has been going on in America since the New Deal era. In the civil rights era, this provided huge benefits because civic life, as private institutions, discriminated and public life didn't, so this created a more open country. However, one of the downsides is that American volunteerism and local self government is now endangered. Corporate "responsibility" helped keep things going for a while, but we're seeing public companies being defacto government in their treatment, and losing local responsibility.

Yes there are winners and losers in civic life (as a Jew, I'm well aware of how easy it is to be a loser), but when people don't take responsibility for themselves or their communities and rely on the government to replace civic institutions, we're ALL weaker for it.

There is a reason social welfare is more popular in Europe than America. America's strength is its diversity, but it becomes a weakness when it comes to acting with unity. Swedes don't begrudge social welfare because it goes to other Swedes. America brings its negatively to the surface because people resent aid going to "others" -- this is borne out in sociological studies. So localized civic life, with it's "discrimination" solved this problem in America, but the sanitization of civic life is eliminating this weak link.

National's fundraising problems don't directly effect us, only in that dues go up because national won't cut its workforce to reflect the reality of its current membership base. But old time Scouters here remember when Council Events were the core of the Unit Programming, and are saddened that Unit programming is dominate and council events and properties are grudgingly supported... but our City/State/National Parks are all taxpayer subsidized and therefore are cheaper to use, and as council's run into financial trouble and try to make council programs profitable, you simply get less bang for your buck with council events.

I LOVE our big camporee, but at $20/registration plus $10-$15 for food, a family of 5 needs to spend $160 to do that camp out, while our pack campouts cost the same family $75, of course pack campouts will get larger attendence. When I can camp at a County Park for a weekend @ $3/pp, and BSA Council properties cost $10/pp, how can we camp at our Council and not at parks.

When Council's were flush with corporate money and could lose money on events, you had more bang for your buck with the Council, now Council is broke and needs to make money on events.

In the end, BSA's professional ranks are the real losers in this, we'll keep running unit programming, and council programing is cumbersome and expensive.

Charging boy Scouts $20/registration, means a family needs to find $35 for registration+food for the big camporee, no big deal. With Cub Scout Family camping, it gets expensive, REAL fast.

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

This is silly. By making him get close to his 18th Birthday, it's denying him the opportunity for Eagle Palms that he's earned with his service and merit badges. The SM is making up his own requirements. The parent needs to request a meeting with the Committee Chair.

The SM might want more of him, but that's for the Palms, he's earned his Eagle.

He's already lost out on one Eagle Palm with this nonsense.

We had two 13 year old Eagles presented at Roundtable last night. The opportunity to earn Eagle Palms (and all their excess merit badges), was proudly pointed out by the EBOR leader, the Scoutmasters, and the Scouts themselves.

My son called home from college the other day complaining about his physics professor. He just got his first test back on which he made a 55. Not to bad considering the average for the class was less that 50 and no one passed, according to the professor. And there is no curve . If he makes 100 on the remaining three test and the final he still makes a B. According to him, the test is a common on for all sections of the course offered by a number of different professors. Unfortunately, his professor covered only a portion of the material in class. The practice test his professor distributed only covered those topics the professor covered in class, Hardly seems fair, huh?

 

So his options are to file a complaint against the professor, informally whine to the department chair, or have me call and raise Cain with the university over the shabby treatment my son is receiving, pointing out that I'm paying $20,000 a year and expect better instruction.

 

Instead, my son, an Eagle Scout, has done the following: 1) he has signed up for tutoring for the course, 2) he's found when other sections of the course are being taught and is planning on auditing the classes taught by other professors, 3) he's figured out how to download course materials and study guides from all the other professors, and, 4) he spoke to the graduate assistant who teaches his lab for the course and found out that the exams are all based on the textbook and that he should focus on that, not the materials the professor gives him.

 

So, Myboy, my boy, what lessons do you want your son to gain from this experience? How do you want him to handle similar situations in, say, September?

Separate from what your son has done, that prof is an idiot.

Yeah, I'm Pack CC, and a Troop MC. I don't have a boy in the Troop, but I've sat for a BOR and when picking stuff up for the Pack, I can sign for stuff for the Troop.

Keep training up to date for all positions. When you re-charter, there is an option at the end for indicating that someone is paid in another unit, it's counter intuitive but it's after the Boy's Life screen IIRC.

Do NOT have the Troop "transfer" you (which costs $1), just dual register and keep both. Next year, decide which Unit is paying for you.

It is wonderful, and critical that you are involved in the Pack that you put effort into to transition, but consider how long you want to do both. The Pack needs to cultivate new adult leaders, both to run itself, and to train new leaders for the Troop. If you are staying on as Pack Committee Chair, make sure you spend time not just doing the paperwork (that's easy and can be done at midnight), but running the committee as it ought to run. Have a monthly meeting, delegate responsibilities, train a Vice Chair of the Committee. If you want a 2 year transition, year 1 is making the committee real and not on paper, year 2 is training the Vice Chair to become the Chair.

Good luck. Committee Chair is easily as much work as Cubmaster, and possibly as critical.

When I convinced my wife to go along with cub camping we bought two Coleman Air mattresses that came with a battery operated pump. She fills them up with my daughters while my son and I are setting up the camp site. Alternatively, a few of my families are wandering off to plug in their air mattresses to fill theirs up... So at least mine is filled at the campsite and not at the bathroom or in the car...

I find it a bummer that they don't do arrow points for Tiger Electives. The beads are lame since you often don't get the rank patch until late enough in the year that you don't wear them long. My son earned 4, the other boys 1, and a few were 1-2 electives from the second.

For what it's worth, my recommendation to future Tiger Den Leaders was to give out the elective beads as earned to encourage the families to do electives with their Tiger Cub, since the point of the Tiger Electives is to prepare them for Cub Scout Electives.

Apparently, "back in the day" there were arrow points for Wolf/Bear/Lion and they all went on the uniform. Not including the Tiger ones seems a legacy from when Tiger Cubs wasn't "full Cub Scouting," but now it is.

Given that it looks like Arrow Points are disappearing in 2015, it's probably all academic.

The Boy Scout Troop was making "fobs" for their beads, and my son was with me when I was meeting with the Committee Chair. He nicely asked for one, put his name on it, and we moved his Tiger Beads over to it. Trying to convince him to ditch the Wolf/Bear "advancement towards rank" plastic chain and put all his beads on the belt and tidy up his uniform so all his bling shows... but it's his uniform, not mine.

We budgeted $200 for the event, spent about $250-$300 and collected $150 in donations... having some slight cash flow issues because Council STILL owes us from online popcorn, I've been harassing them, supposedly check being cut March 4th, not holding my breath, I'm withholding Camp Card money until they pay us.

Individual Patrol Accounts -- I like it!

Has the side effect that patrols may organize around socio-economic factors, but such is life.

We're doing gifts/prizes for camp cards on an individual scout basis. If the family hits a certain volume, they go to Cuboree for free. Next fall, we're going to do something similar with Camp Cards and registration fees for major camp outs. Our Pack Campouts are cheap, our District/Council events have registration fee and cost more, so we're going to try to use Popcorn to cover it.

 

I think that allocating the money towards patrols should create zero issue with the IRS, it's NOT a private benefit, and the fundraiser is okay for the Troop, I don't see why they can't allocate budget towards patrols.

 

The real issue is BSA policies, the IRS wording wasn't that stringent. You can't do things primarily for the individual.

 

I'd LOVE the BSA to ask, via a Tax Lawyer,

If the fundraising budget is allocated towards:

49% to cover a Scout's individual costs of participation, and 51% to troop operations, patrol and troop), is that substantially for private benefit or substantially towards group benefit.

 

Actually taking the money into virtual accounts is probably problematic. A prize of "free dues" or other things, credited toward the Scout's "customer account" shouldn't be the same issue. The problem is pretending the money belongs to the Scouts, it doesn't, it belongs to the Troop.

 

Simply having benefits kick in at different dollar levels (instead of a percentage) is probably helpful.

 

Free Re-chartering

Free Dues

Free Merit Badge College

Free Camporee

Free Week of Camp

 

etc. are all prizes not dissimilar from Girl Scout Cookie prizes.

 

If you do a flat "commission" you run into private benefit. Scouts re-chartering is a benefit to the Troop (JTE Retention Goals). Scouts attending Merit Badge College, Camporee, Summer Camp, etc., are all retention tools.

 

Patrol Tents/Kitchens are Troop benefits.

Personal book, uniform, backpack, etc., are all personal benefits.

Now, if you wanted to outfit all Scouts with matching Backpacks with BSA logos, etc., and fundraised for it, you're likely in the clean, since the Backpacks belong to the Troop and are loaned out to the Scout.

The main issue is the ISA, not even the private benefit. Money raised under the 501©3 must be primarily for the purpose of Scouting. If you are directing 50%-100% of the money into an account that the Scout can use, at their discretion, for personal costs, then you are likely to have the issue of the money being substantially used for private benefit.

Ownership matters. If the Patrol/Troop buys backpacks and assigns them to the boys, it's a Scouting benefit. If the Boy buys the backpack via the ISA and owns the backpack, it's a private benefit. "Handed down" implies ownership change.

The question is substantially private, or substantially Scouting. I think that prizes are chosen by the troop to encourage participation and are probably safe (Popcorn Prizes and Girl Scout Cookie Prizes work this way), but I'm not a tax lawyer. ISA's that can be used at the Scout's discretion (dues, or gear, or whatever) are going to be substantially private benefit.

We're doing gifts/prizes for camp cards on an individual scout basis. If the family hits a certain volume, they go to Cuboree for free. Next fall, we're going to do something similar with Camp Cards and registration fees for major camp outs. Our Pack Campouts are cheap, our District/Council events have registration fee and cost more, so we're going to try to use Popcorn to cover it.

I think that allocating the money towards patrols should create zero issue with the IRS, it's NOT a private benefit, and the fundraiser is okay for the Troop, I don't see why they can't allocate budget towards patrols.

The real issue is BSA policies, the IRS wording wasn't that stringent. You can't do things primarily for the individual.

I'd LOVE the BSA to ask, via a Tax Lawyer,

If the fundraising budget is allocated towards:

49% to cover a Scout's individual costs of participation, and 51% to troop operations, patrol and troop), is that substantially for private benefit or substantially towards group benefit.

Actually taking the money into virtual accounts is probably problematic. A prize of "free dues" or other things, credited toward the Scout's "customer account" shouldn't be the same issue. The problem is pretending the money belongs to the Scouts, it doesn't, it belongs to the Troop.

Simply having benefits kick in at different dollar levels (instead of a percentage) is probably helpful.

Free Re-chartering

Free Dues

Free Merit Badge College

Free Camporee

Free Week of Camp

etc. are all prizes not dissimilar from Girl Scout Cookie prizes.

If you do a flat "commission" you run into private benefit. Scouts re-chartering is a benefit to the Troop (JTE Retention Goals). Scouts attending Merit Badge College, Camporee, Summer Camp, etc., are all retention tools.

Patrol Tents/Kitchens are Troop benefits.

Personal book, uniform, backpack, etc., are all personal benefits.

When I was Tiger Leader, I was pretty meticulous about the beads, the boys LOVED them. When we did a Go See It in Activity Shirts (once or twice), I awarded the bead at the beginning of the next meeting, then another bead at the end. One time I did two at the end (as I was getting a handle on things), it worked marvelously.

I found it ridiculous, the boys LOVED IT.

The new Tiger leader didn't bother with the beads, the boys are haphazard on attendance and our Tiger retention from month to month is lower than I'd expect.

Young boys will sit through the most boring of meetings to earn a bead.

The Wolf Year I learned that the boys start to complain of being bored in meetings... but when I remind them that we HAVE to do this to earn their next bead, they stop whining and sit attentively like life depends on it.

Well, I think Webelos Patrols might avoid the "split from friends." They can all wear the same Den Number on their sleeve, and be assigned to 2-3 patrols that they can pick the names for. In the 1 Den, 3 Patrols (if you are up to 15 now, I'm guessing they'll grow in the fall to 18+).

I would assign patrols in the fall, AFTER Day/Resident Camp. One option, put the boys that went to Camp in a separate patrol, since they'll have 2-4 pins done at camp. That way if the other patrols are doing the pins that they did, they can work on a different pin.

Webelos Den Leader is responsible for planning/managing the Webelos Program to rank advance by Blue and Gold.

Each Patrol has a Assistant Webelos Den Leader assigned to the patrol to supervise the activity.

If your Dens meet separately from your Pack Meetings, I'd start pretending that you have a Webelos Troop. Call the meeting to order as one Troop. One patrol does the flag ceremony. Then break into the activity. End with a game/competition, then reconvene for a Den Leader's Minute and retire the colors.

Carrying on this theme, I would, in the fall, meeting 1, Den and Patrol Flags. There should be a Webelos Den flag and each Patrol has a flag. At Den Meetings, post the colors of the Den and the USA, with Patrols at their flags. At pack meetings, patrols line up with their flag, one Scout carries the Den flag in the front. That way you can reinforce that they are One Den, 3 Patrols. They get instruction on activity together, work in patrols, and the patrols compete.

This is all theoretical, I'm Committee Chair and Wolf Leader.

I really thought we were going to be able to have two Webelos Patrols this year, but a bunch dropped out fast.

For the skits, do two skits for the mega den, and put half in each skit... That'll help them organize into the groups you'll use for Webelos.

The school year is almost over. You have maybe 7 meetings left. Get three parents to agree to be ADL for the rest of the 7 den meetings and split up for the activity. Next year, as Webelos, run them as two patrols. I wouldn't shuffle the existing scouts for the last few months. Buy the DL a good bottle of bourbon for after the meetings...

I have no dog in this hunt, I'm Jewish, my Pack meets in a Synagogue, so explicitly Christian groups aren't of interest to us.

LDS uses BSA as their youth programming.

Many churches house BSA programs, thinking it's a good program and happy to offer up meeting space, but how involved with the Church is the Unit? We have some Packs/Troops here attached to private parochial schools and only open to students there, they run it as an after school activity. We have a few chartered to a Church but that meet in a public school and only recruit from that school, the involvement with the Church is on paper.

The question is, does the church want an outdoor Youth Program? If so, then TLUSA/AHG gives them a Christian Outdoors Activity for boys and girls respectively that will be able to be tied in to the church. If you are housing a unit where few if any of the boys belong to the church, then the church isn't getting anything beyond a service project out of the deal. If they want to have a program to build membership in their church, the status quo isn't working.

Existing BSA Units have their leadership structure in place. If they aren't church members, then I completely see why the church would consider an alternative program that they can tie into their religious program.

When we moved from Self-Chartered to the Synagogue we meet at, there was an extensive discussion about what that would mean. They aren't asking all leaders be members (I'm personally a member of a Synagogue down the road), but they want an all-Jewish group that keeps Shabbat/Kasher as a Unit at campouts.

If you are a BSA program that meets in a church and has no relationship to the church, I'd be VERY VERY wary... if someone wants a church youth program, TLUSA and AHG are offering an opportunity to replace your program. BSA guidelines let the CO shape the leadership but not the membership. I would suggest asking the church/CO how you can help, what they want, and actively recruit there.

For example, we combine a recruiting event with the Synagogue Youth Department Kickoff, and do our Pinewood Derby at their Purim Carnival and our Space Regatta at the Lag B'omer Bon Fire. We have made ourselves a part of the CO's program, which results in the CO being very happy with us.

My title is Committee Chair... I came on as Tiger Den Leader when our Pack Leadership collapsed. The Bear Den Leader became Bear Den Leader/Cubmaster, I became Tiger Den Leader/Assistant Cubmaster. I then added the Committee Chair role because we needed it to recharter, I also had one wolf (and two joined), so I did Wolf Achievements/Tiger Electives in the Spring, major PITA. It took a year to turn the program around. A functional Pack Committee remains the biggest challenge, that's my goal for 2014, get the Pack Committee meeting monthly.

My suggestion, stop letting everyone run amuck. We meet weekly (we scheduled some off weeks around campouts, HUGE mistake, parents get confused as to when to show up despite a printed calendar and a digital one).

We also scheduled every week for 1 hour, 15 minutes. Gives us an hour to meet even with a 15 minute gathering/rolling start.

Den Meetings: the Cubmaster and I call the meeting to order, line up the Dens in Parallel Ranks, count off members, flag ceremony, and any brief announcements. Then the Dens move into different rooms to do their activity for the week.

Pack Meetings, monthly: Cubmaster and I call the meeting to order, do announcements, then break into Dens to plan a skit/song. We then reconvene, do our skits/songs, present awards. One month we did a service project as the Pack Meeting, etc. We're playing with the format.

Pack Activities, when there is a spare week: Cubmaster and I call meeting to order, we immediately move into activities.

I think for next year, the plan will be one Pack Meeting/Activity, and the Pack Committee should convene at the same time. the Cubmaster and other Den Leaders will run the activity jointly. We plan to meet every week, and week's we'd skip, instead we'll do a belt loop project as a Pack.

If the Dens meet at different times, the Pack meeting time is confusing. Best to have the same night/time every week, so parents just know to show up, and then the leaders can coordinate.

Planning is KEY. We convened the Pack Committee 3 times over the summer, we did our budget, our calendar, and worked through issues, it let the year run more on auto-pilot.

Leader Meetings: we do a leader conference call a few days before the Pack Meeting... this let's us edit the achievements on the shared Google Spreadsheet, so we can enter our order to the Scout Store. In person would be better, it's just hard.

Pack Weekend Activities: we do this just about monthly, either a Day Activity (three Regattas, five Campouts, Scout Quest at Renaissance Faire). It's either a day event or a weekend campout. Now that we have our trailer, the week before the Campout will be a campout prep meeting.

It is desperately necessary to have the Cubmaster and Committee Chair be distinct from the Den Leaders... we are failing on this. My doing dual shift means I setup my Den, they work on things while I talk to parents for a few minutes, it drives me wild. A Cubmaster is also a spare Den Leader, if a Den Leader can't make a meeting, the Cubmaster steps up.

Tiger Go See Its are the hardest part to coordinate. We tend to bring other Dens along that have Tiger Siblings.

Achievement Tracking is the hardest, good ADLs are critical and in short supply.

If the parents aren't interested and you can't recruit good parents, give up the Unit and find a good Unit for your boy. He only has one shot at being a Cub Scout, no need for adult drama to interfere.