Krampus

Experience and observation in my area says most CO's don't know that AND don't really care. Units do what they want as long as they follow BSA policy and don't break laws.

@@blw2, nice idea but now you seem to have 6 things going on to manage. I can toss this past the SPL and see what he says. In any event, the boys are doing what they want because they are responsible for bringing the ideas to the PL who brings them to the PLC.

Agreed. Thankfully the issue seems to be those two PLs simply not wanting to put in the effort because they think it is worthless. The SPL has shown them (first hand) how poor planning means continued boredom...and this time it was their fault. I think a light bulb went on.

@@Eagledad, we did the same in 2010. It was suggested that the new scouts used the new requirements, existing scouts stayed on the old requirements until finished with the current rank. Worked well. I can't imagine a Scout (or adult) having to manage too many kids on different paths.

Managing 20 boys on the old requirements and 25 boys on the new requirements -- plus another 40 either on one set or the other -- will be a major headache. If units can channel them by groups it will help the burden.

You're right, and menu planning is a prefect example. Had an SPL watching his patrols plan a while back. All the PLs were honor role students. PLs did exactly what you described -- filled out the generic menu, sans details like quantity. The SPL walks past and says, "Tom, you're an honor roll student, right?" Tom replies, "Yup! In all subjects. Straight As!" The SPL retorts, "Would you ever half-way fill out an exam? [insert blank look from the PL] Because that's what you're doing when you don't complete the menu plan and duty roster fully." These guys have the skills. I just conti

And yet what my unit saw was greater participation and advancement.

This jives wth the other discussions around when the requirements take effect. The only "choice" is if a boy working want to transition earlier he can. I suspect most units will "request" boys in the first year program all stay on the same curriculum.

To baseline the level of participation at camp outs and service projects they used sign in sheets for several years previous to see who showed and who did not. It was well known that most 9-12 graders only show for the holiday party, a friend's Eagle COH, when they needed an SMC or BOR, or when they needed a MB or signature. We then made a concerted effort to continue tracking attendance at major events (camping, service projects, Eagle projects, PLC), as well as to track simple meeting attendance. We also put in place having scouts develop objectives with their POR so they have something

Gotta say, I read through the various "explanations" on what to do and what is needed and was more confused than ever....and I understand this stuff. I can only imagine what the average volunteer who never has to deal with such things is feeling/experiencing.

There's no way to measure that. In looking at the changed and impact, one line item stood out: "Adults who stay occasionally at a meeting to help out – clearances are NOT required unless their participation becomes a weekly occurrence." Unless units have been tracking who comes to meetings regularly, there is no way of knowing how many people are now affected. Also, units would have to be tracking how many adults showed up for fund raisers, service projects, and other events to be able to measure the impact on a unit. Any parent that have any "responsibility for a child other than th

According to that document I linked, that's the national guidelines; hence why I thought this was a nation-wide standard and not something folks could pick and choose to use.

Being so close to Irving makes everyone a silver beaver, wood badge, ptc expert. One of the reasons we just focus on our unit. I don't have time to get all the bling they want me to get in order for them to pay me attention. They'll take my money but never anything else. I ignore. Took a while but perfected the art.

@@qwazse oddly we went the other route by requiring percentages. Here's what we achieved: - Increased participation by all grades of scouts - Participation increases from 9-12 grades from >30% to near 70% - Increased size of troop from 60 to 80 scouts - Increased retention to 97% from 82% - Decreased scouts labeled as "inactive" to less than 5% from 25% It can work if done right. We've kept these numbers for nearly 7 years and counting. Change was hard but those who want to be part of the program are willing to invest their time...not just pay dues and collect awards.

Why have uniform guidelines? Wear what you like when you like.

Follow-Up to OP: New DE, so now we have a Senior DE and DE; I guess that means we now have a "Key 4"? Anyway, the district commissioner only got 20% uptake on his "mandatory FOS" participation note. He is now wanting to set up meetings with the unit leaders. No reason given, but has basically given his schedule and expect leaders to fit in to time slots on his schedule. All slots are on a weekend where nearly every unit I know are camping (upcoming three day weekend in January). I wonder if he knows just how out-of-touch he is with his units.

We allow all of our troop committee folks to camp with us. They are very much like ASMs....just not much Scout contact, per se. Since our SPL handles most things the adults are just around because of policy and oversight reasons.

Anyone who has joined a troop as a leader or taken over a leadership role has run in to this issue (the institutional leaders saying "We do it this way..."). I knew immediately what I wanted to change when I crossed over with my scout, spoke to the SM and was told what they feel comfortable changing. I knew from his response what degree of change the troop was willing to embrace. There were some things (switching from cotton to dri-fit troop shirts) which they pushed back on; while they did like having the Instructors develop and manage the curriculum for teaching skills to the new Scouts. Go

I don't think any of us are here because we know everything. More likely we are here to help others who may not have encountered what we have, as well as to find answers to questions we may not know. I can say that our unit had to put in a unit based activity objective because we were in danger of becoming an Eagle factory. When Scouting is supposed to be an outdoor program then being active in the program requires being out, whether it is camping, service or otherwise. I wouldn't hope to be the captain of the soccer team, first chair in band or the lead in the school play without some

Council requires we sell at face value. And with the number of units selling the market is diluted.

Not in my council. We've tried that. Any time we switch a position we need a new application. It's idiotic. You'd think in the 21st Century we could go online and make the change.

I was under the impression for adult to qualify they had to meet the same requirements as scouts. http://www.oa-bsa.org/pages/content/membership-and-induction

Actually the PLs for the most part follow the expectation. Two don't, four do. The PLs know what is expected. The two in question are the biggest complainers with something is "boring". The SPL's carrot is to encourage them to do their duty. They get this twice a year. Not a big deal. His idea was to have the PLs do the work at PLC...but not tell them prior to announcing the agenda. SPL is willing to get them started with ideas (he has tons). That's his compromise. He figures he's done the research, they can pull it together. He and the patrol advisor are around if the PL needs help.

@@Stosh, how long has it been since you've seen the "traditional training" given to kids in school? It is spoon-fed to them these days. Completion grades, not review of material. Text books are online but rarely used. Handout printed, checked only that there is pen or pencil on them (not for correct answers) and then teachers wonder why kids fail the quizzes and exams. I won't spoon-fed my scouts but I will teach them to fish. I will then drop by to show them how to cast around trees, what the best lure is for catfish, how to tie on additional weights, etc. That's the follow up training.

@@Stosh, I have always had a problem with the "train 'em, let them lead" statement. For me the "training" of youth is not a one-time thing. The training is on-going so I don't think we are ever really done until they leave Scouting. I know you know that.