yaworski

Hey Supermom, Why do you double post everything?

I am always amused by people who wear outlandish clothing, have strange piercings or have been tatooed over 50% of their bodies and then are upset when people notice it. There was a boy at summer camp this year who was commonly refered to as "parrot boy" because his hair was a bright green. He would get visibly upset when anyone noticed his impossible to not notice head. If you are going to wear or do unusual things, you need to be prepared for the attention that it brings you.

While we're redesigning the uniform, let's change the position patches. Why on Earth do we need a patch that says, "Patrol Leader" when the green bars mean patrol leader? If people don't know what the green bars mean, they can ask just like they do when they are talking to an Army officer and they don't know what the gold oak leaves mean. Let's put some sort of community strip back on the uniform. Either get rid of the Council patch or put the community in the troop number patch.

I would go back to the rugged cotton shirt of the 60's and earlier. That shirt was tough enough that it could be worn in the field and survive. Let Scouts learn to iron, it only takes five minutes to do a shirt. Make the collar like a dress shirt with a band so it can be buttoned and look OK. Get rid of the epaulets. For trousers, I'd go with a tough work type like those made by Dickies. Cotton/poly would probably be best because they hold a crease and all trousers are a pain to iron (much longer than five minutes). I'm not a big fan of cargo pockets because I don't like heavy things flapping around my knees. However the back pockets would need flaps and the front pockets shouldn't be patch pockets because stuff falls out of patch pockets too easily. Big rugged belt loops, and enough to support the trousers without sagging when the pockets are loaded. A couple special compartments in the front pockets would be nice. In one you could have a sub-pocket big enough for a compass and in the other, a sub-pocket for a pocketknife or leatherman. Make long rise available for us tall, chubby types who don't like their gut flopping over the waistband. Colors? The current colors are OK. Neckerchief. Mandatory and make it big again. Maybe even the old square one that is very useful. Headgear. The garrison cap looks sharp and is easy to stash but serves no useful purpose in the outdoor. I like the campaign hat but they are too expensive at the Scout Shop. Let's go with the old expedition hat. Old expedition hat? I got my expedition hat about six years ago. The new ones have a much higher crown and are made of a much stiffer felt. On the subject of hats, BP-Scouting in Canada and WOSM sell Campaign hats for about $25 to $30. If BSA had a Scout campaign hat in that range, it would be a doable option. Encourage the wearing of cotton t-shirts, they keep you cool in the summer and warm in the winter. Shoes? Shined leather shoes would be nice for dress occasions.

"If spiralling into mediocrity is your concern yaworsky" If you are so concerned for the feelings of others, why is that you insult me by misspelling my name? "by your insults to the other posters" It's not an insult if it's true.

"How do the color of loops and circles contribute to "mediocrity"? " It is just one symptom. What is the purpose of a color code if it isn't consistent?

"Its not the rank nor the uniform he remembers but what scouting has taught him and how that has somehow helped him in his life." It also isn't the uniform that the old sailor or Marine remembers (unless he's thinking about those great liberties :-) but it was an important item at the time.

Finances are often a matter of setting priorities. Although I live in an area where $500,000 homes are common, I live in a townhouse and drive a 15 year old car. Not long ago, a neighbor was complaining about how unfair it was that she couldn't afford internet connection for her kids. She thought that the schools should pay for it. I pointed out that if she or her husband cut back to one pack a day for a month, they could pay for internet service for a few years. I have another neighbor who hasn't bought a bicycle helmet for her son because "you know those things cost $10" but she sits on the porch with her cell phone and uses it all day long to BS with her friends, then brags about how many minutes she uses. On the flip side of all that, I have a friend who lives in a trailer with her two boys. Saying that they don't have two nickles to rub together is a gross overstatement. However, she pays for her boys to go to summer camp. Her boys are properly uniformed (some items did come from the uniform bank). Different priorities. The point here is that we all decide what is important.

"Has our society become so sophisticated that we are willing to sacrifice our children to ensure our status as progressives? What's more important, proving ourselves to be uncompromising intellectuals, or protecting our children?" Alas, it has. Our whole society is going to hell in a hand basket because we are told that no one is responsible for their actions and that we need to be tolerant. There are two monsters in my neighborhood. Not just noisy, rowdy kids. Monsters. They cover car with mud, spray paint fences, curse at adults, steal, and more. Their mom says that we need to understand her boys because they have "issues." Why is it that Wall Street crowd is being held responsible for their actions but murderers aren't? Money. We are showing that money is more important than anything else in our society. People whine that lives were ruined because retirement funds were lost. However, no one died. My wonderful state will give me a permit to carry a gun but it is only valid when I'm making a CASH deposit at my bank. This tells me that the state considers my cash to be more important than my life. What am I supposed to do if I'm mugged when I'm making a deposit of checks? What am I to do when the robber misjudges the day and picks a day when I'm going to the bank to talk about a loan and not make a deposit? The state doesn't care because no money is lost.

unintentional double post deleted(This message has been edited by yaworski)

"Sorry OGE, but this isn't playing devil's advocate, it's just bad manners. It is not helpfull, cheerful, friendly, or courteous, and does not belong in the content of these posts. " Talkin', talkin', happy talk -Bloody Mary I notice that the paterfamilias does not chastise the boy-child either for butting into an adult conversation or for making rude comments to me. Why not? Because the boy-child doesn't make negative comments about BSA.

"I can only surmise you do care about Boy Scouts" I do, I just don't care for the way that BSA is spiraling into the abyss of mediocrity.

"As far as wearing all the uniform or nothing at all then give me a uniform that cost less. The uniform should be half of what it cost and maintaining a full uniform is financially tough on many including adults." Everyone is different but I live in one of the most affluent counties in the country and I can't believe the whining that I hear about the uniforms. People whine about a $25 shirt then drive home in their Lexus to their $500,000 house to plan this years cruise. Later mom takes junior out to buy $120 sneakers and this week's Starter jacket. Oddly, if you go to the poorer sections of the city, the scouts are all uniformed properly. Go figure. My daughter wanted to join "junior cheerleading," I didn't like the suggestive dancing that they have eight year olds doing so I said no. Boy am I glad that I did. It would have been at least $200 for a uniform and "required" gear. I know a teenager that was invited to join a prestigeous soccer club. His dad had to pony up about $250 for uniforms. He drew the line at $75 for a "team bag." Dad said that the kid had a perfectly good gear bag. Coach (he sells the bags) said, "it builds team unity" Dad said, "you asked him to join, take it or leave it." Unless a kid gains a ton of weight, a new scout should be able to get three years out of a uniform even if you don't buy him an XL when he needs a small right now. The trousers are extra long so you can have a really deep hem and just keep letting the bottoms out.

Now I'm being sniped at by a snot-nose brat. Oh, I'm wounded. Think about this baby-boy, by taking your shots at me, you are showing that you and I are the same.

Sounds like the judges' right to associate is being violated.

"But I do wonder: do all girls of a similar age remove even the tiniest fo earrings for all athletic activity? If they don't, then what about similarly tiny earrings worn by boys? " The rules for all high school sports require that all jewlery be removed with the exception of Medic alert tags which are supposed to have the chains taped to the body. If a religious medal "must" be worn, a letter from the state office authorizing the wearing of said medal must be present at the game. Most non-scholastic youth leagues, especially basketball, use high school rules or have adopted the high school safety rules. I referee basketball at all levels including youth recreation and high school varsity. Every year as a recreation game I get some mom coming down from the stands to argue with me about her daughter's earrings. This never happens at a high school game although I do have to remind a few kids to take them out. If a kid gets hit in the ear by a kicked soccer ball, the earring can be driven through the lobe in embedded in the head. If a hoop earring is snagged by a stray finger, it can rip out of the ear causing damage and a good deal of blood on the floor. The reports that are written up in the various journals for sports officials are amazing.

"I found yaworski's comment to be completely tasteless and void of dignity. It is unfortunate it had to appear in a scouting arena." Wah, wah, wah! You don't want to hear the truth if it ain't happy talk.

"I've seen many Council employees (without Crew Numbers) wearing silver loops, and if given an opportunity I think we'd see National wearing them too. "If anyone knows differently, please tell me, I hate being ignorant on any subject." Well, I wait to be corrected as I hate being ignorant as well. I still think that Venturing should have the red loops to match their circles. FWIW, I'll never be invovlved with Venturing because I don't wear polyester shirts.

"So I stand corrected, Although I am not sure how since its says silver outranks gold. " Only for rank insignia, not medals. Visit that web site that I referenced and it explains why a silver bar outranks a gold bar. "Yaworski, if there is so much wrong in Boy Scouts, why do you stay? I havent reread every entry you have made, but your tone is generally disagreeable on every topic, why do you stay?" Someone needs to disagree or the world will be run by the likes of you.

"By the way Tiger years are no longer shown on the orange background. Since Tigers is now a regular den in the pack their year is reflected on a yellow service star like the other cub years. " Only for those in the Tiger program in the fall of 2001 or later. Those early Tigers still wear the star with the orange background. "I hope this explained why the colors are what they are." Well, that may be the history but it still makes no sense. I suppose that no one at Scout Headquarters thought to say, "Yo, Oscar. We should use green for boy scouts and red for venturers because those are the historic colors"? (This message has been edited by yaworski)

"I believe colors for the service star backs were chosen because they contrast with the color of the uniform shirt. A green backing on a green Venturing shirt or a blue backing on a blue Cub shirt would be hard to see." Since the service star backing pre-date the silly loops by about sixty years, giving Venturers green circles would be silly. Not that BSA doesn't do silly things but it still would be silly.

Sorry but your answers make no sense. "The reason green loops are worn on a Venturing shirt is the same as why Troops wear red--to distinguish themselves from Council and National people." Only people registered to a Venture crew are supposed to wear the green shirt so Council and National people are out of the loop. "The Tiger cub program now is part of the Cub scout program, so they will be able to wear the blue shirt, etc." Tiger Cubs don't wear the blue shirt. "The color green has always been used for Boy Scout service star backings. And if you think about it, we didn't gain the shoulder loops for quite awhile into our history, so there wasn't anything to contradict." Huh? If green was established as the color for Boy Scouts, why not just give them the green loops? Explorers (when they existed) and Venturers could have the unnecessary red loops. Cub Leaders and Webs could wear gold loops. Varsity Scouts could wear brown loops. Pretty simple, no?

"I have always heard it explained that the reason BSA goes Bronze, Gold, Silver with Palms and uses Silver as its highest awards is because thats the way the military does it. " Unfortunately, that's not the way that the military does it for medals. Visit https://www.perscom.army.mil/tagd/tioh/ROTC%20Misc%20NGB%20page/Silver%20and%20Gold%20Insignia.htm and read "Although silver outranks gold insofar as the Armed Forces metal insignia of grade, gold can be considered as outranking silver in medals and decorations and their appurtenances. The order of precedence in establishing medals when using the same design is gold, silver and bronze."

Since the only color should loop that should be worn on a green venturing shirt is the Green loop, why even bother with epaulets and loops for Venturing? Next question. Why don't the loops for the different programs match their programs service star backing? We have Tiger Cubs: No Loop/Orange Circle Cub Scouts: Blue Loop/Gold Circle Boy Scouts: Red Loop/Green Circle Venturing: Green Loop/Red Circle Varsity: Orange Loop/Brown Circle When they set up this silly shoulder loop system, why not just make the loops match the already existing circles?

"So you lose SM... What is important? Your position in the troop?" Why should he stick around where he's not wanted? Obviously the way that he wanted to do things didn't sit well with the committee so the way that they want to do things probably wouldn't sit well with him. The only thing to be gained by sticking around is to be a bone stuck in the committee's craw and that can be done better by moving up the ladder to a district position.