Bob White

Alot depends on the altitude and temperature you will most often use your stove at as wellas who will be using it. Personal I use an MSR Whisperlite. A white gas stove that is extremely lightweight. Its tripod design is prone to tipping so I use a Trillium base to stabilize it and it provides a a good platform on snow. I honestly would not recommend white gas appliances for scouts however. If you read the Guide to safe Scouting and the BSA's policies on fuels, you will see that although white gas is allowed it has several storage and usage safety requirements. For ease of operation, an

NHScouter, Although Den Chiefs are a great help in a den they do not count in the two deep leadership policy. The leaders refered to must be a least 18 years old with one of the adults present being 21 years old or older.

Lawyers? Lawyers?!! Ther are lawyers in this string?!! No wonder this has drawn on so long. :-) This is my final post in this string. I think I've made my point without the meandering that others have fallen into. For years now the paragraph just above the signature line says that the undersigned agrees to the rules and policies of the BSA if you recent application did not have that paragraph it is possible that your unit is using old applications. Tj I hope if you are an adult that you completed a membership application after you turned 18. If not, save yourself some

Doug, You assume incorrectly. I've served several years as a scoutmaster. I have never taken credit for the quality of the program beyond my role as the developer of boy leaders. I have always felt that the boys devloped and carried out the program hence "Boy" Scouts. I worked with the Assistant Scoutmasters, Committee Chair, Committee members, parents and the charter organization to see that the scouts had an opportunity for a true scouting experience. I never felt that I was more important than any other adult supporting the boys. If others felt I was, then I'm flattered. Did I spend

Doug, You assume incorrectly. I've served several years as a scoutmaster. I have never taken credit for the quality of the program beyond my role as the developer of boy leaders. I have always felt that the boys devloped and carried out the program hence "Boy" Scouts. I worked with the Assistant Scoutmasters, Committee Chair, Committee members, parents and the charter organization to see that the scouts had an opportunity for a true scouting experience. I never felt that I was more important than any other adult supporting the boys. If others felt I was, then I'm flattered. Did I spend

None

tjhammer, And yet again you avoid the the subject. You signed an agreement to follow the rules and policies of the BSA. If you knew at the time that you signed that you could not in good conscience keep your word then you should not have joined. If after you signed the agreement you decided that that the rules did not suit you then you owe it to yourself to either notify national of your concern and let them determine the direction of the program or resign. Your current actions are not within the rules of the program. Policies will not change because you send posts to a forum. So l

tjhammer PS "If a boy came up to me and made this argument would I say No your are wrong and I am right"? No, I would say "sorry those are not the principles of this organization or the rules you agreed to when you joined". "If you feel you cannot live up to those rules then you will need to seek membership in another organization". It's unfortunate no one made these rules clear to you earlier on.

jthammer Again you skirt the issue. The other Scouting movements are not the BSA. Each country has its own organization, contolling body and methods. The issue here is not the rules by which any other program operates only the one that you chose to join and agreed to follow. Sorry about the typo "amend the truth". You chose the tactic of avoiding facts, and misdirecting responses around the true issue. We have rules you agreed to follow. If cannot do so in good conscience then either take the appropriate steps by informing the executive board as to why you are right and the

tjhammer Abain you bend the truth to suit you. The principles of the program are one in the same as the principles set by the BSA. They are inseperable. The program belongs to the BSA, we as volunteers and Charter organizations have created this program and at the same time pledged to abide by it. You have done neither. You try to change it through meaningless rantings on web forum, when even by your own admission the program you promised to follow requires yoou to use appropriate channels to seek change. It is time you either fish or cut bait. If you want to change the program contact

Once again it seems you are avoiding the facts. The fact is that you are not working within the system. This forum has nothing to do with "the system" publicly advocating homosexuals in scouting is not within "the system". The fact is that the current rules of scouting are not to your liking and rather than present your views to a member of the the executive committee and let the debate continue within that forum you are breaking your word. The character we are buiding in scouting is defined by the scouting program not your personal morals. We are not wrong just because a percentage

tjhammer, You stated early in your posts that you wanted to discuss this topic outside the arena of the morality of homosexuality. I will give you that opportunity, however it makes the entire argument rather compact. When you registered as a adult voulunteer in the BSA you signed a document agreeing to "comply with the Charter and Bylaws, and the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America and the local council". The quality of our program depends heavily on the personal integrity of our leaders. Do you intent to keep your word and comply with our rules or not?

The 'Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures' manual spells out the requirements for an Eagle board. Requirements include. *21years of age or older *a minimun of three members, a maximum of six *at least one must be a representative of the district or council advancement committee *the others need not be registered members of the BSA but must have an understanding of the importance and purpose of the Eagle Board of review.

Tough problem sst3rd. I wouldn't give up trying to strengthen your Charter Organizations Pack but in the mean time you need to look out for your troop. You mentioned "brother" packs. I would talk with your District Executive. It would be very unusual for every pack to have a troop assiated with the same charter organization. There are quite probably other packs in your area that you could build relationships with. I wouldn't worry whether or not they had "brother troops" connected to the pack. Several Webelos join different troops or no troops at all even when they have troops at their s

Doug, maybe I'm misreading your posts, but you seem to be mostly concerned with maintaining the power base of the SM, and you see this errent flow chart as being able to undermine the SM. The SM is not THE leader of a scout unit. He or she is just one of the leaders of the scout troop. The scoutmaster helps with the program, the CC with the administration and the COR with the Charter organization relationship. The unit committee has a responsibility to evaluate the troop program and the BOR made of committee members has the "authority" to advance scouts. An appeal once it leaves the

Doug, I admit to feeling a little silly debating a fictional scenario. Since you wrote it, only you know what was in the head of the characters. However, a service project can be approved after the event. The approval is for the quality of the service, not in the planning as in an Eagle project. Don't sweat the flow chart. Appeals rarely happen, and when they do the national rules are all that count. if you feel that the District and Council are not following national policy (when an actual appeal takes place), you can contact the National Advancement Committee and get clarification.

Doug, I'm not sure I would get to worked up over the flow chart. I agree it is incorrect, and you have tried to bring it to the attention of the proper people. Bear in mind that just because the council advancement committee printed it does not over-ride the actual policy which you correctly site in the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual. My concern is in the story you created to explain your position. You site the policy correctly but you understanding of it is in error. The parent in your story did the appropriate thing. Since parents probably have no idea of t

PattiBear, You are off to a strong start. You have the right leader book and you obviously have the willingness to do things right. I suggest you get your own Webelos Scout Handbook.Next find another parent to help you. Get togetyher over a soda and open the Webelos Leader handbook and the Webelos SAcout Handbook. Select three themes tis month next month and the month after. Your Cubmaster can let you know the natioinal themes (hopefully the pack is following the national calendar). the Webelos Leader handbook outlines 4 den meetings for each theme. Unitl you find your own pace, use these outl

PattiBear, You are off to a strong start. You have the right leader book and you obviously have the willingness to do things right. I suggest you get your own Webelos Scout Handbook.Next find another parent to help you. Get togetyher over a soda and open the Webelos Leader handbook and the Webelos SAcout Handbook. Select three themes tis month next month and the month after. Your Cubmaster can let you know the natioinal themes (hopefully the pack is following the national calendar). the Webelos Leader handbook outlines 4 den meetings for each theme. Unitl you find your own pace, use these outl

you've gotten some very good ideas for your fundraisers in this string Advance On. But beware of the ones that recommend selling Brand name products such as See candy or Little Ceasars pizza. If you choose to sell branded products, other than those that carry the sscouting name, you will not be able to wear the scout uniform or mention scouting at any point of the sale before during or at delivery. The Scouting name and uniform are licensed trademarks of the BSA and a unit does not have the legal authority to lend that name to a branded product without explicit permission from the BSA (see the

NJCubscouter's story is a perfect example as to why the most important element isn't WHO gets the ball rolling, but HOW it gets rolling. Anything built on a weak foundation is destined to fall over. A scout unit is no different. Starting a unit without the support of a genuine charter organization that wants to use the scouting program as a one of it's youth programs is short sighted and destined to be short lived.

Pass Him> he did his best, he showed overall improvement. Whether he did as good as another scout is irrelevant, as long as he did his personal best.

Robin, The woggle is only worn with the Wood Badge neckerchief. The beads may be worn whenever you wear the official uniform shirt. the Wood Badge neckerchief is normally only worn during training events, Wood Badge events, or formal occasions. Check with your course director however as local traditions vary.

Yes.

I see units starting by individuals or groups at many different levels. Whether it is a parent, SM, COR, CC is pretty irreleveant to the success of the unit. Its like asking who baked the cake. What is more important that a good recipe was followed. In Scouting the recipe is 1. Scouting as a youth outreach program of the Charter organization. 2 The organization is responsible for the leadership 3 SM do not own the unit. the COR does Can you bake a good cake if you don't follow the recipe, sure, but the recipe yields quality results on a more consistant basis.