Vicki

Doc, I guess I just don't see the boogey-man here. It seemed to me that he was asking a protocol question based on the fact that Vigil is the highest honor that OA can bestow and he wanted to make sure it was handled correctly. Seems like a go-along to get-along type of question which is what greases the skids of human relationships. Every reply said it was totally appropriate and some, like myself, cited experience with other lodges. Most said to inquire, anticipating a positive response. The example of Christmas presents was given. To get to basics, since I'm a bit of a words

and taking things out of context is a problem. This is what emb posted, "Yes, the OA ceremonies are not secret. But they are not public either. If you have people who have an issue, the first thing is to show them the ceremony books and if they still want to observe, then, yes, you let them. But the ceremonies should not be turned into a public spectacle like a high school graduation where parents and assorted family members of scouts are there to see it. " This is the general tenor of this thread and with this, I absolutely agree. Vicki WWW

Tokala, agreed wholeheartedly. I, too, never equated the diversity ticket item with "political correctness." I find that a buzz phrase with almost no useful meaning, much like "liberal" and "conservative" in their current usage. Gmitch, I think to equate diversity with perversity is to attempt to inflame the discussion and I will not participate. You are, obviously, free to hold your own opinions. Congratulations and kudos for attending Wood Badge - you say this is your second time? Are you one of those few that is willing to surrender their beads in order to earn them again? There was

Ed, I'll try - to be honest it seemed so self-evident... As I read that thread it seemed to me that this is exactly the sort of situation the diversity ticket is meant to address. It's so easy to sit back in our smug little world and make assumptions about how accepting we are of differences. If we are forced, just once, to stick our heads outside our "box" and actually look at how others might see us and how we could change the way we look at them, that's a good thing. I don't know if ahoydave's troop had any 21CWB'ers in it, I don't know if they did, if anything would have been diffe

This thread, to me, proves the importance of the diversity ticket as a required item in the national syllabus. As a poster on Scouts-L is so fond of saying, "all scouting is local." http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=179405&p=3 Vicki

Our troop goes out of council every other year - I have been welcomed to attend ceremonies appropriate to my membership (Ordeal one year, Brotherhood the next) in two lodges. My own lodge would allow it. Vicki

OK, Ed, gotcha. This could evolve (or devolve?) very quickly into an issues forum question. So I'll just move on... Thanks for the clarification, Vicki

OK, Ed, second part of the question - how do you see what Tokala and I have said as different ("watered down") from what you've said? Vicki

Ed, that's why I asked for John's definition. I don't believe what I've said is necessarily "politically correct," nor is it watered down. So I'll ask you a different question which might clarify things. What do you see the diversity ticket item as encompassing? Vicki

CNY wrote, "I have to say the thing I dont like doing as the CC is the recharter and with the mess the recharter is in I dont know if I it is something I want to take on." CNY, as someone who has reconstructed the administrative side of two businesses and two churches (and I mean places where they didn't have their corporate documents, the financial statements were a mess, and accounting "systems" were nonexistent) I can sympathize with your feeling here. But this is the easy part, believe it or not. Once you have a copy of the old charter and the district knows you're working on it, yo

Tokala wrote, "We have a course starting in 2 weeks, and as a staff have agreed that the emphasis of the diversity item is to challenge people to get involved with people of other color, income, ability/disability. We feel that this is truly what is intended by the diversity piece. Interaction across BSA program (Cubs ---> Boy Scouts) has been ruled as not fulfilling their diversity ticket item." I think Tokala was contrasting past habit in their council with this second paragraph, which is their current thought. This is what I agreed with as the approach our council takes. Contrary

John, please define "politically correct." I would like to make sure I understand what you mean, since these can be fightin' words in some parts... Vicki

I just finished staffing a course - what tokala wrote summarizes our approach quite nicely. The question I posed when asked if a particular proposal fit the definition was, "does it make you at least slightly uncomfortable?" If the answer was yes, well let's consider this seriously. Vicki "A Bear in a Bobwhite suit"

Rooster, as I worked on the Greek to English translation of the 1 Corinthians 6 v.9 - you're working from an old translation. The original Greek reference was to male homosexual rape as wrongdoing. Makes more sense in the context of thieves, adulterers, etc. Now, as a female type, I find it interesting that only male homosexual rape was considered worthy of condemnation, but then women were pretty much chattel anyway. That was another interesting thing about early Christians - the equality of women in the community until they started trying to accommodate themselves to society, at whic

Sigh, I bought two more shirts and another pair of shorts to be on WB staff this year. So I'll have to stick with the old uniform. Especially since DH complains that I don't buy enough regular clothes at any price (I really hate to shop). I really like the canvas shorts though and the feel of the supplex shirt. Also like the socks. Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

"My only concern is you might be 'competing' in a way with NAYLE and its delivery method, such that your graduates wouldn't want to go to NAYLE or think it a 'let down' to your course. " emb, if anything, scouts are less intimidated at the prospect of NAYLE and more likely to do it. Outdoor, high country, high adventure youth leadership training at Philmont! Great Scott, man, how could we possibly compete with that? Vicki

Interesting. The beauty of it is that we still use the classroom setting - the TGs haul around the laptops to facilitate their presentations and the participants gather 'round just like they do in camp. Vicki

Hmmm, OK. In our council, NYLT Pack and Paddle is an opportunity for 14 yr olds and up to take the NYLT course in a somewhat more challenging setting. We backpack for three days, eat Philmont food, teach bear bag techniques, purify water chemically, orienteer, and do all of the NYLT presentations and games. Then we canoe for three days, orienteer, purify water using clay filters, etc., and do the rest of the NYLT presentations and games. The NYLT shield awarded has a yellow border to it that says Pack and Paddle and we cover exactly the same syllabus as the camp-based program. I knew

First off, I'm not in it for the beads. That said, I agree with foto - I've staffed NYLT (camp-based and Pack and Paddle), and I'm half-way through staffing WB (second weekend coming up). The level of commitment is in no way the same for adults. But I now have a much greater appreciation for what the youth staff do! If National were to come up with a recognition system for the youth I'd be all for it. All this stuff about adult recognition is something that should be cleaned off our shoes. BP established the bead system for adult leader training - I'm with other posters who think Nationa

In terms of pay, Scoutldr and Eamonn, scout camps are exempt from minimum wage requirements because they don't operate year-round and they are recreational in nature. This also puts scout camp employees in a different class from scout shop employees (since scout shops operate year round and are not recreational in nature). Here's the link to the Department of Labor regs - http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs18.pdf Vicki

I would suggest, for your PLC's consideration - Kia Kima, in Hardy, Arkansas; and Old Indian, near Greenville, SC (actual zip code location is Traveler's Rest). Both had wonderful facilities, including a dining hall (although I am one of those who prefers patrol cooking over dining hall), overall good mb programs, and great staff. On the quality of staff I would grade Old Indian higher than Kia Kima. Vicki

Just extrapolating from the three summer camps I've attended in three different councils - two were Venturing crews and young women were involved as instructors. One was traditional scouts in their home uniforms and none of the instructors were young women. I think the co-ed nature of Venturing may have something to do with the reasons for setting camp staff up as crews. I should add - I have no idea if they do anything as a crew during the off season. Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

Somebody told me once that becoming a parent is allowing your heart to walk around outside your body for the rest of your life, God willing. God willing because the alternative is to lose the reason for allowing your heart out to go walkabout in the first place and that's unthinkable. Vicki

Hey, Pack, no problem. Safe travels, Vicki

GWD - got back Saturday rather late, back at work today (sigh). Can't say enough good things about COI! The staff was absolutely wonderful - polite, knowledgeable, fun, all the good stuff. The great majority of the MBs were done well and our first years really enjoyed the Pathfinder program. The Dance Pageant was incredible - those folks went to a lot of effort to learn authentic Cherokee dance movements and drum and it showed. It reminded me of a Pow Wow I went to in South Dakota. The OA callout was kind of disappointing, but I was unable to make it to the Thursday pre-ordeal ce