Venividi

First Aid: any of the first class skills, such as FA for a sprained ankle, and transport; or FA for broken collar bone; etc. - first patrol done wins.

I used these two at a first aid scenario at our district's winter-all last month. It was apparent that the scouts were getting their skills signed off without becoming profficient at them. I think including these skills in patrol competitions would help them remember them so they can be recalled when they are really needed.

What is wrong with waiting until the leaves start to emerge on the poison ivy / oak plants? I dont know when they emerge in Maryland, but in Northern Illinois they start appearing in early May - about another 2 months. I think waiting until a tenderfoot can actually identify the plant in the field provides better skill development than identifying it in a picture. Much more useful to actually be able to identify it growing along the paths and playgrounds they use than to identify the 3 leaves in a picture. I think that rushing to sign off on requirements before a scout masters a skill does him a disservice.

Philmont offers a shuttle service from the AMTRAK station in Raton. Details and pricing will be included with your Philmont materials. The cost was $20 per person when I went.

I suspect that folks are discussing the choices based on the troop that they are most familiar with, and extrapolating that experience across all others. So I would like to add into this discussion that much depends on the particulars of each individual troop.

Considering a troop that has a culture of high expectations for achievement, and offers REAL challenges in POR's, and significant mentoring, such that a young man learns and feels good about himself for what he has accomplished, and feels recognized as a peer by the adults, many will rise to the challenge and make time to be active in scouts in addition to band, sports, science club, etc.

At the other end, considering a troop where adults view is that scouts are so busy with band, sports and other activities once they reach high school that expectations are lowered to the point where the scouts feel no pressure or compulsion to be active contributors to the troop, then it should be no surprise when boys dont make time to fit scouting into their schedule.

Granted, it isnt as tidy as this - there may be a program that overlaps 100% with troop meetings for part or even all of the school year. And even with the heghest quality troop, there will be young men that choose to devote their time to other endevours because it it more meaningful to them.

We made the same change that you did - pack had paid for the belt loops - until there became a concerted effort to collect them. As the belt loops were pricey, the pack treasury didnt have enough funds to pay for them. Committee discussed several ideas - like an additional fund raiser, cutting funding for other things. Committee decided to not fund belt loops. Parents would have to purchase them. It wasnt a problem; parents understood.

Foto,

You are right - I didn't see the point that the scouts were signing in and attempting to get signoff on a MB in your prior post. In that case, a SM conference with each individual is called for to reflect on how that action meshes with the scout law (trustworthy?). I would then coach them on laying out a plan on how they will regain your trust (assuming that they care about such things - some will, some won't).

A few boys sign up for merit badge classes. They go to the classes and sign in. Then they bail out on the class. The classes are very large, and they are not missed. This happens for a few days, before the leaders find out about what the boys are doing. How do you handle it?

Have a SM conference with them to find out what they were doing instead, and congratulate them on taking the initiative to do something that they found to be more fun?

(this is assuming that their alternate activity was not destructive or immoral, that other scouts did not get the opportunity to take the class as a result, and that the scouts did not try to claim having completed the MB's if they did not.)

scottteng,

Is there not a middle gound between giving an award and sending him packing? Perhaps working with a scout to help him improve? And providing high expectations and the encouragement to meet them?

I have accompanied scouts on all 3 types of trips (though not all at BSA national bases). I would go backpacking and canoeing with scouts again, but not to a beach/sailing vacation. The allure of hanging out with friends in a sub-tropical environment is certainly strong, but I think that the scouts get more out of a trip that challenges them. My observations of scouts after the trips has been that there is a feeling of accomplishment from the backpack / canoe trips that just wasnt there on the beach trip.

That said, if scouts wanted to plan a high adventure trip to the beach, I would tell them that if that is what they wanted, proceed with making plans. I would ask them to recruit other adults to accompany them, as I would not be going.

Thanks, John.

I understand the timing. I think that such a presentation could be made without it being made to be disciplinary. Could be done as an informative presentation. Sure, people will understand that such a presentation is related to recent activity. And I think that if done right, it will not be perceived as disiplinary, and that some people may actually appreciate it. I think that would be dependent on the culture of the troop. A troop that normally of speakers at COH's, I think it could work.

Note: I do think that it would be just as effective to have such a guest to a regular troop meeting.

That said, this is nothing more than an intellectual "what if" discussion, and opinions will vary based on personal views.

have a great weekend.

Why must a presentation about risks and consequences of driving be considered a disciplinary issue?

This keeps getting referred to as a disiplinary lecture. I dont think it needs to be. Bringing in a guest to talk about injuries from horseplay with cars need not be disiplinary. It can be positioned as public service.

Tangential to the current direction of this thread - how about program related presentations? Anyone do them at COH's? I have seen a COH where a scout provided a demonstration of packing for a backpacking weekend. Brought his backpack, pulled out all the gear and showed it, explained weight distributution, etc. The sort of thing that could also be done at a regular troop meeting. In this instance, it gave the scout a larger audience, with adults attentively giving him attention, and provided an insight to parents of scouting skills that their sons were learning. I think the benefits were worth having more than awards & recognition on the agenda.

In my area there was a death of a high school senior this spring doing something very similar. They young man, honor roll student, jumped out onto the hood of a car driven by a friend. The friend's reaction was to slam on the brakes. The young man slid off the hood and cracked his skull on the pavement.

I like Bob White's suggestion. In addition, asap, have a chat or conference with the scouts about the type of example that they are setting for others.

"One mistake does not void ..."

I respect your postion that bringing and using drugs on a scout outing would be considered a mistake. However, I would not clasify it as such. A mistake is an error caused by carelessness, misunderstanding, or not knowing. Something such as forgetting to bring a necessary piece of gear, or doing the steps of a task in the wrong order.

I would consider the bringing and USING drugs on a scout outing as a willful defiance of the scout oath and law, and of the expectations of the other scouts. Not a mistake.

> A youth who brings illegal drugs to a scout activity ...

I think that this is one of the key factors in a scouter's decision on how to treat the scout. How the leaders choose to treat him might well be different if the scout was found smoking marijuana out behind the city water tower after school than if he were caught doing so on a scout outing. The scout has been reciting the scout oath and law for a number of years. He knows marijuana/cigarettes/alcohol/etc is not allowed. When bringing such to a scout outing, he has betrayed trust to a much greater degree. Scouting is a safe haven, and parents have a right to expect that their sons will not be tempted or exposed to such things while on a scout activity.

I dont know what you have near you, but the Salvation Army thrift store is a great place for thrifty pots, pans, knives, forks, etc. Ask the troop quartermaster to create a list after talking to the patrols. Then drive him and one of his friends to the store.(This message has been edited by venividi)

I suppose that they consider Jack Abramhoff, Tom Delay, etc. to be liberals.

gwdscouter writes:

Guess I haven't done a very good job for the past two years with these guys in instilling the value of Trustworthiness and following through on a commitment.

gwd-scouter - I wouldn't guess that. There are some who take the view that if a scout fails, it is an adult that is to blame. That takes away personal responsibility, and that is not a good thing. You can only plant the seeds and foster the environment. If the scouts decide that they are not ready, that leadership is too much work for them, that they just arent ready yet, that is a lesson learned. Whether they stay in scouts and try leadership again, or whether they stay and be a group member, or even if they leave scouts alltogether, they will have received valuable lessons and skills from you. They may not appear until later in their lives, so unfortunately, instant gratification for scouters isn't always in the cards.

>If it was, why does the retail price continue to rise?

Because users are willing to pay the increased price. i.e., there is continued demand even at the higher price levels.

GAhillbilly, great explanation.

"It seems lately, the price is driven by what the market will accept"

Sounds like demand to me. What am I missing?

OzarksOssage,

I find it interesting how things differ in various regions around the county. In our area, a scout does not have to have earned Eagle to work at summer camp, and it isnt a factor leadership beyond the troop. Sounds like scouting is highly effective in your area.

venividi

Hi Jill,

I like to think in terms of what is best for the boy. In this scenario, I think the scout gains more by participating in separate service hours for each. 14 hours isnt very much, and would hope that the scout participates in more than that in the normal course of activities that considering applying 6 hours of service to both star and MB, wouldn't even come up.

Dont know the context of your question, - if it is a scout that is asking, a conversation about the duties of citizenship might be beneficial to the scout.

Beavah,

I think that depends in part on the age ranges in the troop. A troop composed of 6th and 7th graders will not be as likely to pick up those functions as a troop that has scouts of high school age. I am with you on having a vision of a troop where the scouts do all those things. Next step is identifying the steps to get there - to teach and condition the scouts to take on that responsibility. As an aside from other threads, that is probably harder to do in troops where advancement is given because it is assumed that if a scout didnt fulfill their duties, it is an adult that is at fault.

I agree. When a scout has earned advancement, there is nothing to be gained by denying advancement to the scout. The correlary is that when advancement has not been earned, there is not a denying of advancement; simply that the advancement has not yet been earned. And providing social advancement is not helpful to anyone but the adult, who thereby avoids the real work of actually helping a scout learn and succeed.