bnelon44

"If the "Blue Card" is required, you would think the official training material for MBC's would say so. But I guess lots of BSA literature is poorly done."

The new 2011 Advancement Guidebook coming out in 3rd quarter will clarify this. Blue cards are the only official form but national is admitting they did a poor job of communicating that in the past and they will not require councils to change mid-stream. Instead national is asking councils to submit their forms to the national training team so the national team can learn about best practices.

The new Advancement Guidebook coming out in 3rd quarter will clarify this pretty well. Yes the MB counselor may take up where the previous one left off (up to him, but it should be rare not to) and yes, there is such a word as "partial" in BSA advancement language.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

Eagle92, I am awaire of that history. What I can't talk to is what remaining influence from the very early days when the YMCA had influence is still present.

I don't know how much the YMCA has to do with our traditions or not. I did notice though that even though B-P states he doesn't care if a Scout wears a uniform or not, he also states in the Aids to Scoutmastership (1920):

"Smartness in uniform and correctness in detail may seem a small matter,

but has, its value in the development of self-respect, and means an

immense deal to the reputation of the Movement among outsiders who

judge by what they see.

It is largely a matter of example. Show me a slackly-dressed Troop and

I can Sherlock a slackly-dressed Scoutmaster. Think of it, when you are

fitting on your uniform or putting that final saucy cock to your hat."

>Around these parts the blue cards for the listed merit badges are required when youth apply for Eagle rank. Nothing else (council records included) is acceptable.

I think that would be adding to the requirements and the Scout wouldn't have any problem on appeal.

What I posted is what I know. It doesn't look that National is mandating as much as letting everyone know what the official form is and that they weren't suppose to be making their own up. Now that there are hundreds of different forms out there, and computer programs out there to do this job, national is trying to see if there is indeed a better way. Other than that, I don't know any more than what I posted.

My current position is a District Training Chairman and Troop Eagle Coordinator (aka advisor). I have been an adult leader in the program over 17 years and I have a lot of contacts.

(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

Some merit badges are simply easier to earn than others. And it would be difficult to try to put a hour minimum on a badge. For example if you put a 3 hour minimum on Citz in the Nation badge, I could show a movie about the founding of the constitution (say the musical 1776) and fill up most of the 3 hours. But it wouldn't teach the Scouts much about how their govenment works.

The better method would be for the troop to screen MB counselors and ask them how they will approach the badge. If it doesn't sound right, don't assign the Scout to that MB counselor.

Also remember that the MB counselors are suppose to make sure the Scouts do exactly what the requirement says they must do. They can't change any of the requirements, they can't add to them nor subtract from them to satisfy the badge. That is national policy.

My 2-cents(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

It is hard to see your Scouts move on. But it is extremely rewording to hear your name called out behind you and to turn and see a young man holding his first born and thanking you for all you did for him!

>Sorry you are incorrect. Blue cards are an option that most units use, but not all. Never heard of a blue card until I started working for national.

Advancement reports are the council records for advancement (either the 3 part form or the Internet version.) However the merit badge application is an official BSA form for recording that a merit badge has been earned and signed off by a merit badge counselor. Note the advancement form does not have a place for a merit badge counselor to sign nor a place to keep track of partial merit badges earned.

This will be clarified in the new Advancement Guidebook that will be issued 3rd Qtr. The blue card is the nationally recognized merit badge record.

Though it has not been clearly stated in the past, units, districts, and local councils do not have the authority to implement a different system for merit badge approval and documentation. In any case, through the years, many councils have created new forms and approaches to the process, some including IT components. In an effort to gather and consider these potential best practices, councils will be asked to submit descriptions and copies of their blue card alternatives to the National Advancement Team.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

SM doesn't have to be the keeper of the cards. He just needs to sign the card initially authorizing the Scout to work with that particular MB counselor.

After that, the process doesn't say who keeps the card until done (most Scouters would say it is the Scout's responsibility.)

When done, the MB counselor signs the card. At that point the badge is earned.

The Scout brings the card back to the SM (to close the loop.) The SM should discuss the Scout's experience with the Scout and sign the applicant's record of the card signifying that he has received the card.

Then the process just says the troop (usually it is the advancement coordinator) submits an advancement report to council and purchases the badge and the badge is given to the Scout at the next troop meeting.

Looking for things in electronic format I can give the Scouts to help Patrol Leaders... before I reinvent the wheel.

Blue cards are the only nationally recognized merit badge application. Still are.

Different topic, Scoutmasters are suppose to sign the cards indicating they approve the merit badge counselor and the Scout taking the badge before the Scout starts to see the counselor for the badge. .. so Moosetracker, your troop policy is national policy too.

Note that after the Scout finishes the merit badge, and the counselor signs off, the badge is earned, the SM can't take it away from the Scout, so the SM should make sure he approves the MB counselor at the beginning. The SM signiture at the end simply acknowledges that the SM received the report from the MB counselor that the Scout earned the badge.

(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

It is preferred a Scout be in full field uniform for any board of review. He should wear as much of it as he owns, and it should be as correct as possible, with the badges worn properly. It may be the uniform as the members of his troop, team, crew, or ship wear it. If wearing all or part of the uniform is impractical for whatever reason, the candidate should be clean and neat in his appearance and dressed appropriately, according to his means, for the milestone marked by the occasion.

So Calvin, upon reading this, was wearing a badge pinned on your uniform wearing it properly?(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

It is acceptable for a counselor registered in one council to approve merit badges for Scouts in another. This is an important consideration especially where Scouts must seek scarce counselors in another area, or when they are away from home and want to continue advancing.

Youth members do not meet one-on-one with adults. Sessions with counselors must take place where others can view the interaction, or the Scout must have a buddy: a friend, parent, guardian, brother, sister, or another Scout working on the same badge.

Canoe trips are easy excuses for adults to take control.

Backpaking is an easy in for the high school guys to get away from adult run. But as Kudu points out you have to shorten it for the younger ones. Once a year is too infrequent though to instill a concept of boy run.

I agree SM Specific won't infuse the patrol method, but it does have a good introduction to a guided instead of adult led troop method. Which may be where you guys are at.

The other courses he mentioned other than NYLT don't address boy led or patrol method at all really. (sorry Woodbadgers)

I think he is also correct that boy led is a lot harder in a large troop.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

Troops ebb and flow as far as youth leadership is concerned, as the Scouts get trained, find their footing, and organize then eventually leave for others to do the same.

I normally expect them once in the troop a couple of years to be able to organize their campouts, figure out where they are going, who is driving (and get the commitments from the drivers) figure out who is in who's car, when they leave, when they get back, communicate all that to everyone, etc. As well as the standard figuring out who sleeps in whose tent, who is grubmaster, what they will eat, etc.

I have seen Scouts organize entire Scout o Rama booths, set them up, drive their own stuff to the SoR, etc. The adults were basically there for the ride. Wasn't the prettiest booth there, but it was beautiful to me ;-)

Well the training went very well. I ended up being alotted one 1.5 hour block and one 1 hour block.

I ended up with 3 presentations:

Briefing parents on the patrol method (about 30 min)

The Patrol Method for Scouters and Parents (about 1 hour)

Teaching Jr. Leaders (about 45 min or so)

Used a game (helium stick) about 1/2 way through the 1.5 hour segments

Presentations and handouts are here:

http://www.bsatroop14.com/patrolmethod

A lot of good advice. Read Beavah's post carefully he has a lot in it. Best part is be patient, the adults need time to ease into a Scout run troop and you don't want to turn them off.

Some ideas:

1) Talk with your Scoutmaster and broach the subject of Scout run and Patrol Method. A 17 yo JASM sitting down calmly with him and discussing it will do more than 1,000 hours of us lecturing him.

2) Have him invest some time looking into what NYLT teaches about how a troop runs. He should be able to talk with someone at District about it. Ask him to send some Scouts to it.

3) If he hasn't already, he may want to go to SM Training (called SM Specific.) If he hasn't and you are 17, you could probaly both go together. I know I would let you into my class in preparation for when you are 18 and an ASM.

4) Get other adults on your side if you can't get the SM on your side (but try him first).

5) Lots of resources available

Have him read Chapters 3 & 4 of the SM Handbook

Have him read the SPL Handbook, and the PL Handbook, or better yet you both read them together for "ideas to help the troop"

On the net you can point him to

An old but pretty good video:

I put up a number of resources here:

http://www.bsatroop14.com/patrolmethod

6) Remember: it will take time

Wide games were my 1st thought as well.

Capture the flag is a real easy game for the Scouts to pick up on and can be played most anywhere.

I don't think I will print this presentation out as a handout. I will have the notes if I need to refer to anything, but I already have a number of handouts I can give out. here

http://www.bsatroop14.com/patrolmethod

CC may be responsible for taking on parent issues. But the best person to go to for information on the program is the Scoutmaser.

I will probably provide a break between topics. The room I will be in is very small

I did consolidate some slides and uploaded again

I have been told I have the next 2 hour block as well which only has slotted "teaching parents about the patrol method" should make for a lively discussion :/

I keep making changes to it based on input here.

Your input is great too and I will see where I can put it

I have a 2 hour segment that needs to teach 1) The Patrol Method and 2) Training Jr. Leaders at a merit badge day Saturday

I just uploaded another version where I split the presentation in two for the 2 topics. People were advising I do that to get my arms around the 2 topics. Still 1 presentation, but it has an obvious break in the middle.

Not doing this for UoS necessarily. UoS needs to move to a different venue for a lot of reasons though. We can do MUCH MORE if we have both classrooms and access to outdoor areas for outdoor skills.

Share the load, share the fun

But the adults butt out of Scout buisness. The problems I have seen is that the adults are all in favor of sharing the load and 2 minutes in they start barking orders or making remarks about how the Scouts aren't doing it right.

By the way, the Philmont way, when we go, is that the adults share the load and have chores too. They just keep out of the planning and leading.

Good point. I will try to find another picture. Unfortunately that one is typical of about 10 I found in a 2 min search.