bnelon44

Our council still requires a tour permit or tour plan for any activity outside the metro area.

jet526

Again, GTSS rules haven't changed. If the activity previously required adults under GTSS it still does. The tie always was there.

Eagle projects were never exempted from the GTSS. They were always an official Scouting activity (at least for the last years that I have been in the program.)

Maybe it is a good thing it is being spelled out now.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

jet526,

All official BSA unit activities MUST follow the GTSS, that includes Eagle projects. That also includes tour permits. It has been that way a long time. It is just being spelled out in the workbook so the Scout doesn't forget.

Patrol size should be 6-8, not 8-10. Patrols should be camping monthly. (that is the program element people here are talking about) So that gives a Scout 12 opportunities to serve as patrol cook.

Trying to get your Scouts to 1st Class in 1 year will force you to have more program, not less.

(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

moosetracker,

The loopholes will always exist unless we want national to set draconian policies (and I don't think we do.) In the end the Scout has to rely on trustworthy leadership.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

One advantage that the National Committee has that we don't is visibility of the total program numbers. They can see if units who have an active advancement program retain Scouts or not. We have our own experiences with out own units and limited visibility of other near by units. The rest, I think, is guessing and opinion on our part.

SSScout,

Originally a project was not required for Eagle. Just 21 badges (of any kind.) That slowly changed an some required badges were introduced.

Before 1948 in addition to the badges he just had to have satifactory service as a Life Scout. After 1948 he actually had to work actively as a leader in his troops meetings, outdoor activities, and projects; do his best to help in his home, school, place of worship, and community; and take care of things that belonged to him and respect the property of others (note how what he did outside of Scouting counted towards the rank.)

In 1965 he had to serve in specific POR and in the words of the 1965 handbook, the Scout had to plan, develop, and carry out a service project helpful to [his] church or synagogue, school, or community approved in advance by [his] Scoutmaster.

During the 1970s the number of required badges jumped to 24 for a brief period.

History is here: http://www.nesa.org/PDF/58-435.pdf(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

Is the currently outlined program the same as FASTTRAX ?

From a friend who had input into the new guidebook:

"We believe it is a responsibility of a troop to establish programs that will retain youthcall it deliver the promise, or what have you. Topic 4.2.1.0 ties in advancement: Well-delivered programming will take boys to First Class in their first year of membership. Advancement is a simple matter when the four steps or stages outlined below are observed and integrated into troop programming. Since we are convinced that advancement is one of the key contributors to retention, then we should expect that units would consider it when planning program. Were all about fun learning experiences, right? So why not plan fun learning experiences that also contribute to advancement? Taking kids to First Class in a yearwith this approachis a reasonable accomplishment; its done all the time. Many Scouts will get a few merit badges at summer camp during that first year, so by the time they make FC theyre already on the way to Star. It then becomes a matter of planning for positions of responsibility, putting Scouts together with merit badge counselors, and then picking up a few more MBs at the second year of summer camp. Again, with planning, thats not onerous."

Also note: 3.0.0.3 states: The following responsibilities are not all-inclusive, but typical.

And as I have mentioned before: This is an Advancement Guidebook, not a Scoutmaster Handbook. The full program is covered in the Scoutmaster Handbook.

Beavah,

Star in 2 years isn't new after all. From the old Advancement Committee Policies and Proceedures:

A basic goal should be for each Scout to advance a rank during the year. New Scouts should earn

the First Class rank during their first year in the troop.

Beavah,

I didn't notice that until this weekend. It is different. Now for our troop, Star is pretty easy for our Scouts to get once they ge to 1st Class since they usually already have the necessary merit badges. But yes, it is a program change.

Twocubdad,

When councils recharter each year they, like units, agree to follow BSA policies and proceedures. If they deliberately go against BSA polices they put their recharter at risk.

stlscouter,

Baden-Powell had little to nothing to do with the founding or development of the BSA. But that is a topic for a different thread.

moosetracker,

Best to stick with what the policy says and ignore any previous 100 hour "guideline" that people on EBORs take as gospel.

It isn't optional. The policies surrounding the Eagle project specified in the GTA are policies. They can't take what is in the GTA and then modify it to suit their impression of what an Eagle project should be based on any preconceived ideas or arbitrary rules they make up either as tradition or on the spur of the moment.

There is no minimum number of hours for a project. 100 hours or any other. There never has been. This is made very clear in the new Guide to Advancement. If your council has a minimum set of hours, they are adding to requirements, and they cannot do that.

They never were able to add to requirements. You can look in the current Advancement Committee Policies and Proceedures or the new Guide to Advancement ... or if you want look in the 1936 Handbook for Scoutmasters. Or the 1911 Handbook for Boy Scouts.

The revision date for the new workbook is at the end of the workbook

SSScout,

The new Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook we are discussing is here:

http://www.troop439.net/512-927_Eagle_Scout_Service_Project_Workbook.pdf

It is not yet at scouting.org. Currently you use what is at scouting.org until it is replaced with this one.

The new workbook will be going up on scouting.org as a fillable PDF soon.

National is also testing an downloadable application that can run on any operating system (so they say) and would allow more flexability of entry than a fillable PDF. Not sure when that may be released.

They are not looking at RTF or DOC files. Probably because there is too much of a temptation for local councils to change things.

moosetracker,

I would give them a few weeks to digest the material on their own. They just received notification of it LATE on Friday. I had already left work so many who use their work emails probably will only receive it today when they log on. Then they have to carefully read both documents and digest the changes.

For some councils there are a lot of corrections they have to implement.

Eagle92,

Didn't they introduce these changes in 2010?

Bill

From page 3 of the workbook:

"Only the Official Workbook May Be Used Eagle Scout candidates must use the official Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook, No. 512-927, as produced by the Boy Scouts of America. The official fillable PDF version can be found at www.scouting.org. Although it is acceptable to copy and distribute the workbook, it must maintain the same appearance with nothing changed, added, or deleted.

"No council, district, unit, or individual has the authority to produce or require additional forms, or to add or change requirements, or to make any additions, deletions, or changes in the text, outlines, links, graphics, or other layout or informational elements of the workbook. It is permissible, however, to print, copy, or send individual pages or forms within the workbook as long as they are not changed in the process."

I would also suggest reading pages 21 & 22 of the workbook.

Already reported. That will be fixed before it goes online. As well as making the cover page more injet-printer friendly.

>Since it seems like yeh were on da committee, bnelon44, do yeh

>have anything in particular to highlight? Some of our cub >scouters might want to take a look at da new section on cub >advancement, which didn't really exist before.

I wasn't on the committee. I did preview parts of it dealing with unit boards of review and gave some feedback. I didn't (and haven't) read the Cub Scout section.

Bill

I started a new thread to discuss the new workbook