Twocubdad

Bob I only know what I have observed within my pack and affilliated troops and that is we have a difficult time getting boys to be den chiefs. I can tell you that for the system to work, you need both things to happen. And obviously, the most important element is the selection of qualified, motivated Scouts to take the job. I don't want a den chief who is there only because it was the only leadership position open or because his SM is making him do it. I can tell you from working day camp that age and maturity are huge factors in whether or not a Boy Scout is an asset or liability

Understood. That was the point of my last paragraph. But I'm talking about fairly limited situation where an intervention is warranted. If the CO and unit leadership is adamant that they are "fine" as the unit circles the bowl, there's not much that can be done. For someone to get involved with a unit like this, there needs to be the consent of the CO and the remaining leadership AND a clear exit strategy. This is getting off topic, but if we're rethinking the role of the commissioner service, maybe we should think outside the current rules and constraints. It may not be "our unit" r

On the thread about recruitment, ASM514 posted a note about how his troop is trying to upgrade their den chiefd and better use them to recruit Webelos into their troop. Along the lines of Bob White's thread on the Commissioner Service, I'd like to start a sparate thread on Den Chiefs. ASM maybe you can expand you post here, to. IMHO, a good den chief is the best recruitment tool a troop can have. It is extremely intimidating for an 11-year-old boy to show up for a troop meeting with a room full of 16- and 17-year olds. I can't think of any greater retention tool that for the new Scout

Good thread here, and not the interrupt things, but as a point of clarification, my post on the commissioners' thread was regarding Cub Scout recruitment, not Boy Scouts.

That, Acco, is what I think one of the failings of the Commissioner Service. What's wrong with a Commissioner becoming activly involved with a unit? A struggling unit can get advice out the wazoo. What they need are butts in chairs. So let's say you have a small pack that's been carried along by the Cub Master who is now being transferred out of town. Because it's a small unit and small CO, they are having a hard time coming up with another CM. What's wrong with the Commissioner stepping in and running a few pack meetings and helping to recruit new volunteers? What's the worse t

Bob, I've not spent as much time thinking about this as you have, but my observations locally match what you are saying. We've got a good DC, several good ADC, but I don't know that I can name a single UC. Three years ago, they recruited one of our den leaders to be our UC. He quit after a year because he thought it was a waste of time. Apparently he's still on the books as our UC, though. My view of the commissioners is that they tend to drift, looking for something meaningful to do. We have several good ADC who keep coming up with interesting projects, but they seem like B or C prio

Boy: "May I have a cookie?" Dad: "You may not." Parent: "May I smoke?" Leader: "You may not." Where is the ambiguity? In which English-speaking country do they interpret the father/leader's response to mean "have one if you want to."

Our district exective has gone from District Executive, to Senior District Executive to District Director, all while keeping the same job. My understanding was that the difference was largely a seniority/pay grade issue.

But, sctmom, the problem there is not that they boys are working on a merit badge, per se, but that the entire troop is being shoe-horned into one activity. That's no different from the thread a week or two ago about a troop where the PLC decided to plan a cold-weather campout and excluded everyone below first class. All the other boys spent weeks with nothing to do. In my old troop, there were always multiple activities to choose from. Bob wrote "There are two divergent philosophies at work," one emphasizing advancement and the other emphasizing character growth through a balance of al

I'm not sure where Dan was headed with the Scoutmaster Generic message, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. A week or so ago, someone on the board made the comment that the "rant" key on the computer had been stuck. Seems to be a pretty common bug around here, so maybe that was Dan's problem. But beyond that, Dan's last post, and the one three posts ago (actually I took a break for dinner, so I may be behind now) about striking a balance between advancement and other elements of the program sounded very reasonable to me. I don't understand why some seem to consider

We all like to think we can make lemonade out of every lemon. That if we just give this guy a job, that he will see how much work being a volunteer really is and lighten up on everyone else. My experience is that people like this are rarely willing to put their money where their mouth is. Even if he takes responsibility for a job and does it well, chances are he's still going to be a hypercritical pain-in-the-you-know-where. Leader, you didn't say what your position is, but I'll assume it's den leader. Personally, I don't think my den leaders should have to deal with these kinds of pr

At this point, who can or cannot attend committee meetings is moot. There is no committee other than the den leaders. Let's not get side tracked from the real problem. Marty, I think you have a classic opportunity to show some leadership and turn this unit around. Don't look at the problems and lack of leadership, look at the opportunity you have. Whether or not you succeed, will depend on your attitude. You need to have a lot of enthusiasm for the program and the improvements and changes which need to be made. First of all, you need to set goals for yourself and the pack. The

"... don't be surprised if a chorus of liberals respond ..." Rooster -- I got a laugh out of your reply. I have exactly the same fear, except that I worry about what conservatives will do to the freedoms of expression, privacy, religion, etc. Viva la difference. Maybe the most important part of the constitution is Article V?

According to the Insignia Guide, that is correct, it goes on the right pocket as a temporary patch. But before I looked it up, I would have bet good money that it went above the right pocket, in the same location as Jamboree patches. I know I didn't make that up, but can't find any of my old insignia stuff right now. Does anyone know if that's a recent change.

Thanks for that info, Bob. It's good to know that the accident insurance is idiot proof. In training we're always told that you must follow all procedures to maintain coverage. The distinction between the two types of insurance isn't noted, however. This may be a little off topic (so what else is new?) but one question I've never had adequately answered is what is BSA's attitude in deciding which leaders to defend and which they leave hanging? Do they look for reasons to defend you or do they look for reasons to stay out of court?

That's interesting, Bob. Last summer when we went to a council-sponsored Webelos camp, we were required to produce a tour permit at check-in.

OneHour -- are you in my Pack? We did the identical thing this weekend. Same track, same times, everything. We've got a new Besttrack, too. Very fast -- even kinda scary the first time cars shoot down it. We run our races by rank, with each heat consisting of four runs with the cars rotating across all four lanes for fairness and to give each car more track time. Even if you are eliminated in the first round, your car gets to run four times. The top two cars advance and the bottom two retire. In years past, we tried to run a true double-elimination bracket, but it's very difficult

Ditto. You think there are issues between 11- and 17-year-old Boy Scouts? Consider some of the issues for a Pack outing including a 5-year-old kindergardener and an 10-year-old Webelos II.

In the past few months, somewhere on the web I saw a site where someone had knock-off knots on Venture green and Sea Scout white backgrounds. I have no clue where I found them, but if you search you can probably find them. I know, I know, they're not official, but if you found original BSA knots on eBay, you could wear them. I doubt anyone could tell the difference.

Right on the money, Scoutldr. While I'm sure Bob White is right (he usually is) about the contents of the R&R; in the general scheme of things, it's not unreasonable for a member of any organization to have the bylaws given to him or her when they join. That imascouter went through all the grief that he did only adds to the perception that, at worse, BSA has something to hide, or, at best, that they are incompetent. Imascouter is apparently having a problem with the ownership of unit property and needs something in writing to clear that up. His DE ought to be jumping over his desk

I stand corrected.

So your point is that the right hand would need to know what the left hand is doing? Well now that you put it that way, I see where National may have a problem...... While I've not done a point-by-point comparison of the new and old S&A requirement, I believe they added some new subjects, but that the requirements for the existing subjects remained the same.

You know, when the sports beltloop and pin are required as part of the Webelos activity pin, you wouldn't think it would kill them to include those requirements in the Webelos book, too.

I use the regular advancment report spread sheet to keep a running total of what the boys earn. I do this on the computer, but you could do the same thing on paper. Coloring the boxes with a marker, instead of just checking them off, makes it easier to see at a glance where the most unworked territory is. For the whiners in the Pack, I'd tell them they can either sit quietly in a corner while everyone else participates in the activities, or they can jump in, have a good time with the other boys and not worry about earning the belt loop. Remind them, however, that the Webelos are requir

I believe I'm correct that the requirements for all S&A pins all begin, "Earn the beltloop then....." so yes, earning the beltloop is part of the requirements for earning th pin. That said, if you've earned the pin, the beltloop should be a short putt. I really didn't follow all the objections raised by the advancement chairman in your original post. But if she is saying that you have to have previously received the beltloop, then the S&A pin, before earning the WAP, I don't think that is correct. I don't know that I've seen this specific squence addressed, but in other parts