Twocubdad

I'm not sure how the boy's registration went through. I frequently get calls from our DE questioning the age, grade, registration or advancement of boys althogh the problem usually ends up being a clerical mistake. If you've already brought this up with the CM and CC and they are either uninterested or unwilling to deal with it, bring it up with the DE. He can take it from there. As to the original problem boy, Ed's advice still stands. As an asst. CM, you are a pack leader and need to handle the situation. One could make the point that you are in more of a position to deal with the boy than the den leader. ("Well Laurie is an Assistant Cubmaster, and she didn't say anything, so..."). That the Den Leader is a wimp about handling behavior problems doesn't mean you have to let it go to. I had a kid in camp last week who was brought to me by his den leader (I was the camp director). The DL didn't go into detail, but said the boy had been disrespectful and wasn't following directions. The boy and I sat in a corner and I asked if he knew the Law of the Pack (he didn't). So I got a handbook and reviewed it with him -- especially the parts about following Akela and giving good will. I left him to study the law for about 10 minutes then we talked about what it meant. Before I sent him back to his den, I warned him that if he couldn't behave as a good Scout that he would be sent home. That conversation did two things. First, it was exactly the lesson the boy needed to hear (your kid may need to hear about doing his best or helping other people, depending on the situation). His den leader didn't have any more trouble with him. The second thing it did was to impress the dickens out of the den leader and other adults within earshot. I had two people tell me how well I handled it. Not that I'm trying to toot my own horn, but it let the adults know that such problems would be handled in a Scout-like way. Bawling the boy out or just sending him home would have solved the problem, but as a Scout leader I needed to take the opportunity to teach something. (And if he did it again, I still had the option of bawling him out and sending him home.) You have the opportunity to set a similar tone and expectation with the leaders and parents in your pack and den. The next discipline problem I had was a boy who used inappropriate language with his den leader and gave her "the bird" (and we ain't talking Eagle either). That was over the line. This was also his second offense and I had overheard his den leader talking to him about his behavior the day before. I gave him a sharp, one-sided conversation that his behavior was unacceptable and that he would be sent home. While I was looking for his parents' phone number, his year-round den leader "rescued" him, saying she knew him and his family and would deal with him. In retrospect, I should have sent him home anyway. Moral of the story is there are lots of ways to handle discipline problems. But the bottom line is that you do need to handle them.

At our last campout, as a gag I gave out disposable earplugs to all the adults. They got a good chuckle, but most of them were used.

Construction Trades. I think it's a huge omission from the career-exploration-type merit badges. Needs to emphasize the management end of contracting, not just the trades, some of which are covered by separate badges. Possible requirements: Interview a general contractor or professional construction manager. Explain the educational requirements for their job. Tell what their job responsibilities are. Be able to read a blueprint for a simple construction project. Explain what 10 standard blueprint symbols mean. Using the same blueprint, develop a list of materials needed for the project. Price the materials at a lumberyard or building materials supplier and develop a materials budget for the project. Develop a schedule for your project. Use a critical-path chart to show the sequence of the project. There could be optional requirements for the various trades which aren't covered by other MBs, like carpentry, and masonry. Why is plumbing the only trade which still has it's own merit badge? Didn't there use to be MBs for carpentry and masonry?

The district committee people may have a role, but I think a troubled unit needs a "primary-care physician" who knows the unit and can call in the specialists as needed. There is some excellent material in this tread -- I'm glad you guys bumped it. The comments regarding mentoring new units are right in line with what I've been saying in the other threads recently. The only place we differ is in that I would go a little deeper to rescue the troubled units. Unfortunately, the ones I've seen fold usually take the boys down the tube with them. Eamonn, in our district, commissioners tend to serve as casual labor for the district committee. Anytime the committee needs a labor force, they turn to the commissioners, whether it's a real commissioner function or not. One thing which could benefit the Roundtable Commissioners and the Roundtable program itself would be a standardized monthly program from national. It could be like the monthly program themes in that it could be implemented whole or in pieces. But it wouldn't need to be as structured as the Program Helps themes, rather more of a continuing education-type program. Whether you are a Tiger or Venture leader, if there is are significant changes to either program it would be beneficial for all leaders to have a five minute training on the changes. To me, this is the kind of thing I think of as supplemental training. (And I'll be the first to admit that the RTC's may already be receiving this kind of info. But it certainly never hits the street at our roundtables.)

The Young Eagles thing sounds like a blast. Can I go? It also sounds like you've done all the hard work of getting it organized. Why don't you call you Cubmaster and/or Committee Chairman and offer to expand them to Pack-wide activities? Not only will it get more guys involved, but it will also qualify you for the summertime award.

On dark, moonless nights, just as the last flames flicker into embers, the story is told of the old Scoutmaster in our troop who had to warn to troop about quiet down one time too many. At midnight, he ordered camp to be struck. Tents were packed, gear was loaded and the Scouts hike about an hour before setting up a new site. Several hours later, as the groggy Scout climbed out of their sacks, they realizided the new camp was in the same spot they camped in originally.

Our council does on-line registration for training events. Is there a difference?

No, I'm not sure I can. But I don't think enough commissioners can either. Our local commissioners seem to a bunch of really great guys looking for some meaningful way to contribute. I think you are right that the problems are both of philosophy and methodology. I'd like to hear your thoughts, but let's bump this over to the "Commissioner House Calls" thread which is a little more on point.

My first year with the pack our current Cubmaster was our UC. He quit after a year because he never had anything to do and thought the commissioner service was a waste of time. This guy is a very committed and passionate Scouter, by the way. For the past three years, we have not had a UC. I know our ADC is supposed to "cover" our unit, but until we were assigned a new ADC last month, I never new who the old one was. All of which is all well and good. We are one of the old-time stalwarts in the district and don't really have dire need of a commissioners services, thank you very much. I would like to comment on the idea of commissioner house calls. I think the whole idea of the commissioners -- or anyone else from BSA -- waiting for an invitation from a unit is a little silly. Do you think McDonald's Corp. waits for an invitation before visiting one of their franchises? Any time our District Commissioner gives his schpiel about "inviting your commissioner for a visit" I always raise my hand and tell him that he and any of the commissioners or district Scouters have a standing invitation to visit any of our pack functions. Bring your own chair. If the unit leaders are upset that they are being "checked-up on," then perhaps they need to examine their program and the possible causes of their paranoia. If a commissioner is causing his unit leaders to be resentful of him visiting their unit, perhaps he needs to re-examine his methods. Anyone who wants to come to our pack meetings and help out, offer suggestions and or bring new ideas to the table is more than welcome, regardless of the color of their shoulder tabs. It's a matter of expectation. We've created a system where we have a Chinese wall between units and the district- and council-level commissioners and Scouters, so much so that it is a faux pax for them to show up uninvited. We need to reverse that expectation so that unit leaders should expect and welcome a visit. It's like training: for years training has been voluntary. We are now having to change the mindset so that everyone is expected to be trained.

Boy I wish. We are in the middle of camp now (my first year as director) and I'm already making notes about how to reduce the paperwork next year. One thought it to better use our district web site to communicate with the Cub families. On-line registration would be the next step.

Bob, you've mentioned several times over the past months that the commissioner service has been broken for 20 years, but no one is willing to do anything about it. Any time a thread cranks up about what can be done to fix it, you cite to us the rules -- all dead-on accurate, I have no doubt -- under which the commissioners currently work. I'd suggest to you that if we are looking for solutions for fixing the service, we should instead look at what the rules ought to be. Your fishing analogy is absolutely on point. My only comment is that what you describe sounds like a pretty lousy fishing teacher.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Many years ago, in a galaxy far away, this was my Eagle project. But the nature of a bloodmobile is very different then and now. Then, we had Boy Scouts do everything but draw blood and do health histories. We manned most of the stations along the route of the donors, assembled the donation kits, worked as nurses' aids in the donor rooms, served donors in the canteen. And this was 12-13 y.o. Scouts. Now, bloodmobiles are so restrictive, the only thing even adult volunteers can do is the pre-drive donor recruitment and working in the canteen. Unless you had a whale of a promotional effort, I'm not sure there are enough hours and leadership opportunities to make it a good Eagle project.

I don't have a specific reference, but I recall from earlier threads that the first reference to BSA's policy against gay membership dates to the early '70s. I recall there is a memo from that time period which BSA usually points to when trying to show the the ban is a long-standing policy. This is purely my opinion, but I would say that the policy originated in an era when most organizations had policies against gay members rather than in response to pressure from the gay lobby and certainly not in response to the Dale case.

And therein lies part of the problem. If it violates the rules of the bureauracy, the heck with whether or not the idea has merit. There are 12 ways to solve that problem, if one wanted to. Mentoring Commissioners could be dual registered from the start, they could temporarily register with the unit if and when the need arises, they could be approved by the COR when assigned to the unit..... pick one. Once again, Bob, we're arguing over the 99th percentile. Hopefully, the need for a commissioner to take an leadership position would be a rare occurance. But the current commissioner philosophy of being a detached observer isn't working. In my little part of the world, all we seem to get from the commissioners about a unit is "they're fine, they're fine, they're fine, oops -- they're not rechartering." Then we just shake our collective heads and try to find another unit to make quality district goals. Look at this as a First Year/First Class situation. Until the unit leadership gets their feet under them, the commissioner -- like a troop guide -- is very involved and spends much time mentoring and teaching. Gradually, as the unit and leaders gain momentum, the commissioner/guide (hey, maybe there's a better name) backs off. Only in certain circumstances would the commissioner take a leadership role jus as the ASM only steps in in certain situations.

Not to hijack this thread in yet another direction, but I like your thinking regarding commissioners. I've felt for a long time that there needs to be a better mechanism for helping struggling units. I know commissioiners are trained to maintain some distance from their units and are damned if they get involved and damned if they don't. But it seems to me that we need to do more to keep weak units from folding. To meet quality district, 2% unit growth should mean only one or two new units for us each year. But we annually turn over 8-12 units. The units which drop always seems to be the same marginal units, those which are only a few years old that never rose above a handful of Scouts and a couple adults. Once those original leaders age out or burn out, the unit folds. I would like to see the commissioner corps empowered to take a more active role with units like this, beyond the usual "I'm here to help if you need me" stance. These "Mentoring Commissioners" (hopefully someone can come up with a better title) could attend Pack leader meetings and help the new and struggling leaders plan pack activitiea and programs. In rare circumstances, they could step in and take an active leadership positions for short periods of time. Their focus should be recruiting leaders and Scouts and helping the unit get to critical mass. Commissioners for such units should only be assigned to that one unit, not the usual three or four, due to the additional time required. They should also make a two- or three-year commitment to working with the unit. Much of the training for these commissioners should be geared toward getting the unit to stand on their own feet, without relying on the commissioner. After a year or two, units should either stand on their own or fold. There is somewhat of a precidence for such an arrangement in the paraprofessionals who work with special service units. I know the standard commissioner response is "but it's not our unit." I understand that, but the point here is to think outside the box and develop new ideas for stabilizing troubled units and for making the commissioner corps more effective. This may not be the right answer, or even a good answer, but just an idea.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Bob, your answers are accurate in terms of the current BSA, but you didn't answer my question: should there be a national policy prohibiting this girl's membership? I suppose what I'm really asking is why does BSA see a difference between immoral homosexual behavior and immoral heterosexual behavior? In your words, why is homosexuality a "major boundary" and heterosexual behavior open to local variance?

I don't have a specific plan, but sounds like something you need wrapping paper tubes for. Or how about craft foam?

I generally agree with you, OGE. As a general proposition, a girl in this situation is a poor role model for a troop. But as other posters have noted there may be mitigating factors or other positions in unit she could take which may change my mind. My IH, COR and I would have a long discussion. But it is a contradiction that we are given the descretion to make that judgement but if the girl were an avowed lesbian, we would have no choice in the matter. Therein lies is my core objection to the ban on gay membership. BSA is picking and choosing the sins it doesn't like. There is a huge difference between a national policy prohibiting membership for avowed homosexuals and a CO having the local option to decide on the membership of an avowed adulterer. In the case of the adulterer, the CO has the authority to judge the situation and it's effect on the unit. They can consider the individual as well as the values and goals of the institution -- hopefully, as Bob notes, all in light of the Scout Oath and Promise. A conservative Christian church may reach a different decision than an inner-city service organization which works with many unwed teenage parents. But a group serving an area with a large gay community doesn't have the option of considering its values and interests when deciding the membership of an avowed homosexual. Question for those of you who would not allow this girl to be an ASM: would you favor a national policy prohibiting her membership? How would you draft such a policy? If the real issue is unmarried sex, not the pregnancy, would you ban everyone who has sex outside of marriage? Does the age of the person matter? Does this apply to men and women equally? Is there some time period after the baby is born that the person would be acceptable as a Scouter? What if the girl (couple?) became pregnant during their "one and only time," and promise it will never happen again? Are they then "disavowed adulterers" and welcome back? It seems to me the problem is that you can neither avow or disavow being nine months pregnant. But are we more comfortable with a sexually active 18-year-old as long as she doesn't get pregnant? The devil is in the details.

Run a search on "Flag Retirement" and see what you get. On site will tell you that you must not, under any circumstance, cut the flag. The next will say you absolutely cut the canton from the field and burn the stripes first. The next says, with equal authority, you must burn the canton first. It's all hokum. As OGE notes, the only requirement is that it be done with dignity and respect. Find a ceremony you like and use it. But here's a nice touch our CM added to our last ceremony. Ask all veterans to please step forward (works best at a district or concil event with more folks). When they after they come forward, the presenter makes some general remarks about duty to country (I do't have the precise script). then individually shakes their hand and thanks them for their service. The honor guard then gives each of them a piece of the stripes to place on the fire. (You need someone on the color guard who can quickly figure how many pieces are needed.) In our ceremony, the canton is burned last. This was a very moving addition to the ceremony. Many of the veterans came back up after the campfire and thanked us for including them.

WLOT covers basic camping skills, health and safety issues and the four outdoor-oriented Webelos Activity Pins -- Outdoorsman, Naturalist, Geologist and Forester. You need to bug your training committee to offer it. Our Council offers it fairly infrequently, too. Not that the courses are interchangable, but if you can't take WLOT, take Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation, or BALOO. You will miss the Webelos-specific elements, but BALOO goes in to a little more depth on health & safety and and basic outdoor skills.

Found it! There is one other book, CS Day Camp Administrative Guide for Local Councils, (sometimes called the "Frog Book" because an old version had a boy and a frog on the cover). In the personnnel section, it lists "Program Aide" and says, "The program aide shall be a capable Life or Eagle Scout or Venturer at least 14 years of age and able to demonstrate and teach outdoor skills to Cub Scouts." We don't use anyone called a "program aide" which sounds like they are responsible for running a program area like nature or games. We use all adults in theses area. The Boy Scouts we use are more generally gofers and don't have any real program responsibility. However that's mostly because the Boy Scouts we get are 14 or younger. If we could recruit any 15-17 y.o. Scouts, I'm sure we could use them in more responsible positions. By the way, this book also lists the position of den chief with a 14 y.o. age requirement, but no rank. Like DS said eariler, den chief who are attending camp with their natural, year-round den, can bu under 14,

I've never had a problem locating devices on the knots. The knots are stiff enough that the original hole remains in them even after they are washed. Service stars are a different matter. I like to wear separate stars for all the different levels -- Cubs, Scouts, Explorers and Adult Leader -- getting those suckers lined up and spaced evenly is a hassle. I tried making a template out of clear plastic, but the stars tended to pop off everytime the plastic flexed. The best solution I've found is to take kahki thread matching the uniform color and sew a small stitch where the stars go. Totally invisible from more that a few inches away, but you can still find them to locate the stars.

And it's not really a book, it's an 8-page pamplet printed on yellow paper. The name of it is "2003 National Standards for Local Council Accreditation of Cub Scout/Webelos Scout Day Camps for Pre-Camp and Opperational Accreditation." I'm sure a committee must have come up with that name.

As a Scout, I had the sad honor of serving as a pall bearer for my Philmont crew chief. His dad, a Scoutmaster, asked the crew members to serve as there weren't enough older boys in their home troop for the task. Everyone wore full uniform, including merit badge sashes and medals. As I recall, several of us scrambled to buy new uniform parts and most had their uniforms professionally cleaned and pressed. It was a matter of pride and respect for our friend and his family that we were as perfectly uniformed as we knew how to be. I would make an opportunity to let the boys know it is never inappropriate to wear all the uniform elements they are entitled to. As a rule of thumb, start with a full, complete uniform with all the bells and whistles, as the standard. Then subtract parts which may be damaged or lost during a particular activity. Knowing how and when to dress up, whether for a COH or a job interview, is part of the purpose of the uniform. If a Scout's idea of "Class A" never rises above what he wears to dinner on the fifth day of summer camp, he's missing an important lesson.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

It depends on what you are collecting. I'm not a big, big, patch collector, but I do have an on-going collection of council strips I began as a Scout. There is a price guide for CSP's which you can buy for about $25. The books are updated annually and I think they sell the outdated books for $10 or so. I believe there are similar price guides for the other more popular catagories of collectiables like jamboree and insignia. The big thing is identifying the patch and the biggest part of most of the price guides is cataloguing and describing the patches. For example, the very first Alamo Area CSP, designated T1a, has three bricks in the second row of the dome of the Alamo. It is worth $350. A nearly identical T1b -- with two bricks in the second row of the dome -- is worth a whopping three bucks. If you don't have access to a price guide, got to the Internet and find the web sites of some of the big Scouting memorabilia dealers. Usually, their asking price is pretty close to the guidebooks. Of course they only have the prices of what they are selling, not the whole universe. The third and least reliable method is to try and find your patch on eBay. Be sure to search both closed and open auctions. But it's going to be hard to find your exact patch and the prices will be all over the place. For example, if a patch is worth $3 or $4, but someone needs it to make a set, it's no big deal to bid $10. But that one sale doesn't mean the market value of that patch generally has tripled.