Twocubdad

Apologies to Barry for stealing his tag line, but it fits. But we spend so much time carping and whinning about small details, we sometimes need to remember the big picture. Just came back from our first pack meeting of the year. We've got 36 new Scouts and counting, most of whom have not had a den meeting yet, due to the late date of our Roundups. So for most this was their first real Cub Scout meeting. We had originally planned an outdoor campfire meeting with Dutch oven cobblers, games, the works. But as any of you living on the east coast know, we were rained out. So we did exactly what we were trained to do -- we winged it. We had the old dens get up and teach the Tigers some of old standby skits and silly songs, the Webelos did a rap they learned at resident camp, we told bad jokes (did you hear about the cat that ate a ball of wool? She had mittens!) and generally acted like idiots for an hour. After the meeting I was standing behind a dad and son who had just moved to town. The dad says to the kid, "These guys are a lot of fun, aren't they." And the boy says "Yeah, they're a lot more fun than our old Pack." But even better (from this Committee Chairman's view) at the parent's meeting afterwards, we recruited den leaders for two new Tiger dens and a Bear den, a secretary, a treasurer, advancement chairman, webmaster, camp registrar and a bunch of dads who are going to build shelves for our storage room. Whew! All seem stoked and eager to get trained and get going. What's that line again, Barry?(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

You eat expensive pizzas! I guess our Pack is going to have to come up with a different crossover gift for our Webelos. We sure can't afford $400 for handbooks.

Define "recognize" for me. Laurie's idea of developing a character connection program around disability awareness and using your boys as an example is a good one. Maybe they can help present the program. But if you're looking for a capital-R Recognition, I don't know that there is one, nor am I sure that one would be appropriate. Yes, compasssion, friendliness, and helpfulness are the things we are trying to teach our Scouts and they need positive reinforcement for it. If you want to treat them to something special, I think that's great. But getting a special Scout Recognition for it somehow strikes me like getting paid for a Good Turn. I really, really, really (did I say really?) don't want to be a wet blanket here and I'm trying not to over-state my point, so please don't take offense. You should be very proud of your boys.

I've only dabbled in Packmaster, so I'm not much help on that, but I can tell you the way we've done den numbers is to assign them when a den is created and leave them with the same number untill they crossover. From time to time that means we have gaps in the numberinig system, but eventually we re-assign the numbers to a new den. The biggest advantage I can see in keeping the same number from year to year is not having to change the den number insignia on the uniform.

And that, 406, is what the policy says is supposed to happen. It is an individual choice by the scouts. I will say that we push the Sr. Webelos to move into the Scout uniforms. Just one less impediment to joining a troop at crossover time.

It wasn't LBJ, but I think Mo Udall. And he was making a joke of Sherman's joke. He said "If nominated I will not run, if elected I will leave the country."

Don't know when the change was made, but it apparently contemplates that all Webelos are wearing the tan/green Boy Scout uniform, not the Cub Scout blues. The insignia guide I have (which is a year out of date) doesn't show where to wear one on a Cub uniform. The text says that Webelos wear it below the pocket. Problem is that if you're still wearing the blues, you've probably got a load of arrow points in that location. And before someone says that all Sr. Webelos will have outgrown their blues and should be in Boy Scout uniforms, I can tell you that more than half of our boys crossing over last year were still wearing the blues. (Surprised me.)

The idea about having a newsletter to reduce announcement is a good one. In the past we've also had the newsletter posted to a web site for those who weren't at the meeting and didn't get a hard copy. The other thing we've done is to schedule the big events separately from pack meetings. Pinewood Derby is held on a Sunday afternoon (but trophies are handed out at the pack meeting the following night). Blue & Gold is on a Friday night. Friday night is especially good because you don't have the pressure of it being a school night.

Exactly, NJ, precision is what I'm getting at.

My point, Bob is that I would not want to see the G2SS filled up with a lot of non-health and safety fluff. I think my post was fairly clear that I'm not in favor of expanding the current G2SS to 1200 pages of "lawyer-speak" -- your words, not mine. I said the language needs to be fairly lawyerly, then took three more sentences not only explaining what I meant by that, but noting that the current edition does a pretty good job of it.

My hunch is that you're not going to find any BSA resources for conducting the ceremony. I'd suggest working with the chaplain from the serviceman's unit or perhaps a local reserve unit. Maybe some of the military guys on the board can direct you to some better resources within the service. One idea which occurs to me would be to embroider the serviceman's name onto the star before applying it to the flag. Twenty years from now, none of the Scouts or leaders may remember who he was. You could do it in gold-on-gold so the lettering is unobtrusive. I don't know if that would be "official" but it sure ought to be.

Sorry Dave, I should have put a little smilie face after my sarcastic remark. But I did have a serious point, although I didn't treat it as such. One of the great advantages of the G2SS is that it is a short, concise statement of BSA policies regarding the health and safety of the Scouts. It's, what -- 50-60 pages and includes dang-near everything you need to know. I can keep a copy in my Scout briefcase and take it everywhere I go. I would not want them to start watering that down with a lot of warm-fuzzies about how squirt gun battles and capture the flag games promote violence, or some such nonsense. Obviously I agree with you that "Safe Scouting" should include all the other elements you mention, but a "Guide to Physically, Spiritually, Politically, and Philosophically Safe Scouting" will run 1,200 pages, cover the entire program and be useless for leaders who need quick answers to important questions. I also agree with NJ that this is an area where the language needs to be fairly lawyerly (although I'm sure someone will point out that a concise, lawerly document is an impossibility). There shouldn't be much wiggle room here. If I have a health- or safety-related question, I should be able to read the G2SS and get a pretty clear, yes or no answer. The permitted/not permitted spreadsheet in the middle of the new edition is a great improvement toward doing that. I'm not sure I have the right chemical, but I believe carbon tet is used by plant hybridizers to alter the genetics of plants. It breaks down the chromosomes of plants into mutiple pieces which allows more variation in the resulting plant. It works on daylilies, but has a really nasty effect on people. Thinking about it, that could explain some of the posters on the board! (This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

This is a conversation we have at leader meetings three or four times a year. Everytime we have any program that takes a little extra time (B&G, PWD, Raingutter, etc.), someone suggest that we postpone the awards presentation to save time. My response is that if we don't have time for both, we cancel the program. Recognition of the Scouts for the work they've done ALWAYS comes first! (Sorry for shouting.) Bob's suggestion for time limits is a good one, but I wouldn't use it to eliminate awards. Simply break up the award presentations. We usually have the den leaders present the minor awards to his/her den and then do rank awards separately. If it gets long, we'll do a skit or something else between the two. Chapter 24 of the Cub Scout Leader Handbook goes into detail on the elements of good Pack meeting (awards and recognition is #5) and suggestions for how to plan one.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Interesting perspective, Dave. I guess they'll have to change the name of the book to "Guide to Safe and Politically Correct Scouting." If you connect the dots from rifles to BB guns to paintball to lasers, the next logical dot in the line is squirt guns.

Age-wise, these girls are essentially a Webelos den. I don't know anything about how the GSs run their troops either, but boys this age aren't ready to take full responsibility for discipline the way a Boy Scout Troop or especially a Venture patrol or crew does. The suggestion of letting them draw up their own code of conduct is a good one. But once you have that document, you still need to make sure that they AND THEIR PARENTS understand that it will be enforced and what the consequences are for violating it.

Officer Twocubdad here, wearing mirrored Ray-Bans and a toothpicking in the corner of my mouth. I'd let the lady off with a warning that she not try to get too cute with the Uniform Police again. The pants come un-hemmed. She can make the case that she only put two hems in the pants. Frankly, I'd be glad to see her kid in my pack. I had a kid show up Monday night perfectly uniformed from the waist up, but wearing bright orange nylon surfer shorts. Good Grief!

Excellent post, Eagledad. That's the most reasonable and rational approach to the subject I've heard. I'm printing it and sticking in a file.

Fuel for the fire: we were taught at day camp school that targets shouldn't have images of people or animals, only bulleyes or similar designs. I say "taught" because I don't recall reading that in any literature, but the BSA Shooting Sports manual would be the place to look.

Half way my foot! The parent's can drive all the way to the camp or I'd turn the kid over to the local social services department! But you need to be establishing discipline before it gets to that point. If I felt behavior and discipline in the unit were at such a point that I had to pre-arrange pick up points, I'd cancel the outing. Instead, we would be having a meeting with the girls and the parents outlining the behavior I expect from each. They need to understand what the expectations are and what the consequences are for not meeting them. The rules are that you follow instructions, participate with the group and don't bully others. And put them on a short leash. One warning, then we call your parents. What you are describing are girls who are disrupting the program for all the others and making an unplesant, difficult situation for the leaders. That shouldn't be tolerated.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Interesting.... Never really though of our COR as a key part of our pack leadership (mainly because until a few months ago, we only had a paper COR). I felt he was primarily a liaison Even in the official job description, I don't see where he has much to do with the operations of the unit. Most of the COR's responsibilities are to "promote," "encourage," "emphasize," or "suggest."

Philosophically, I agree with Bob. And I would absolutely agree with him if we were talking about working with a group of registered Scouters. Were that the case, referring them to their training or any of a number of resources to which they should have access is absolutely appropriate. Generally, however, I think the audience for most of these documents are parents who aren't -- and may never be -- fully knowledgable of the program. My pack (dang it!) the pack which I serve doesn't have a bylaws for all the reasons Bob outlines. But we do have a Parent's Guide which in addition to nuts-and-bolts stuff like phone numbers, directions to the Scout Shop, a uniform shopping list, and the Cub Scout glossary from another thread, it also has about three pages discussing the Cub Scout program generally. We start with the Mission, Aims, Methods and Values of Cub Scouting. A large section is titled "Your Son's Success = Your Involvement." Most is lifted from other Scout resources, but some is original to our pack. Yes, it was a fair amount of work to create, but that plus an orientation meeting and an admonition to "read you son's handbook," does a pretty good job of getting our parents up to speed. This is strictly an orientation document and doesn't include any sort of policy and procedures. In no way would I consider it to be our bylaws. If another unit wanted to include their local policies for handling Scout accounts or discipline, I don't see the harm ther, AS LONG AS they are consistent with the BSA policies. As evidenced by the questions/problems which repeatedly appear on the forum, the BSA policies allow enough variation to cause problems for some units from time to time. (Seems like it usually involves money.) An upfront understanding of how things are handled could be a good idea. Obviously the policies can and should be changed when circumstances change. A somewhat separate question for you Bob: you mentioned the Key-3 of the unit. I've never heard the Key-3 mentioned except in reference to a district of council. Is that used in relation to Troops? I've not seen it referenced in any pack-related literature.

CUT THE CAKE!

Technically, you shouldn't wear both a knot and the medal for the same award at the same time. But strictly adhering to that rule would require two uniforms, one with the knots for everyday wear and one without the knots that you wear with the medals for formal occasions. Not many folks are going to that trouble and expense.

If the kid meets the age requirement, why not? FOG, you'd be surprised how many Sr. Webelos are all ready 11. I always tell parents who have an option of which program (or even den) to join based on age vs. grade to keep their son with his buddies. We just registered three new Sr. Webelos. My advice to them is to sit down with their parents and their handbook and decide what they want to do. If they want to make the commitment to earn the Bobcat, Webelos and AOL in six months, go for it. If they want chill out on the advancement and look at the time as a chance to get ready for Boy Scouts in the spring, that's okay too. In the past we've had boys take both approaches and do well.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Try this: http://www.du.edu/risk/Tool_Safety.html May require some adaptation for kids. Look at the Bear safety rules for knives for ideas -- adult supervision, clear work area, etc.