trainerlady

Basementdweller, You aren't the only one who had a ROTTEN WB class. Mine was awful too. In my Council its beads that count to get anywhere or do anything. Its a cult-like atmosphere here. The haves run everything and the have nots know nothing.

Melissa, You have several online/computer options open to you. Your pack can purchase PackMaster a great program that lets you track each boy, his achievements, vital stats, fundraising goals, on and on. My pack has used it for years. It links to the national data base and lets you upload your advancement. Another option is to speak with your DE or someone at your Council service center and have them help you set up a ScoutNet account. It's free and relatively easy to use. Your info goes right on to the National database. It even gives you a shopping list to take to your local scout shop. There are also several free shareware type spreadsheets available at www.usscouts.org I've used all of them. Using them you can then complete a hand written advancement form your kids awards. Go to a roundtable in your area and ask for help. My roundtable has a time slot for Q&A. Ask what others in your area use. Your local scout shop can alos be a great help. As a clerk in mine I've helped lots of newbie advancement chairs get through the first couple of months. Or ask your DE for help or to help you find a mentor in another pack. Please don't give up. Help is there you might just have to be a little vocal to get it. GOOD LUCK!

Basement - I'm curious how your boys went to BS at 10 years and 4 months and didn't do any WII at all? The requirements for AoL are 10-1/2 years old, or 6 months after 4th grade graduation and 10 years old, and you must be a Webelos den member for 6 months, along with everything else. AoL requirements are not the same as the BS joining requirements. Also I'm not trying to hold the kids back, I wish we could have gone over in June. I just want them to follow the rules and really do the work. They had at least 8 other opportunities over a 8 month period to go to outdoor events but chose not to go. My son did 5 of them and had a blast. My 2 other completed boys have each done 2-3 events. For 3 families we are actually having a problem deciding where to go. We love all 3 troops, the boys love all 3 troops. Even the pro/con chart we made isn't helping. As for involvement with the troop the curent SM wants nothing to do with the under 14 set. If you can't hike Philmont every 2-3 years he doesn't want to talk to you. I have tried to engage him with the den since Tiger year, no response. You're very right he takes the pack for granted. Last year was the first year a WII went to a different troop. The pack has a 50% crossover rate the troop has a 10% retention rate. The SM has been kicked out of evry troop in town at least once, this is second time around at this church (new priest/CO). Lisabob - I'm actually VERY, VERY disappointed that the parents are heading the boys to this troop. Since our Tiger days the troop has done nothing but let us down - failed to provide a Den chief, failed to help with camping and outdoor activities, charged us rent for camping equipment, lots of empty promises, no action. I have pointed this out to the boys and the parents from day 1. They are staying because they either aren't serious about staying with the program (2 kids), don't want to "defect from the parish/feel they owe it to the parish to stay in a WEAK, DEATH BED troop (3 kids), parents don't want eldest son out of the Pack yet and Dad is new CM for little brother, also almost all the other troops in the area meet at the same time as the pack (1 kid).

As many of you have assumed there are several boys with parents on the committee - out going CM, incoming CM, treasurer, advancement chair, AWDL, and special events chair. All of these families passed on the outdoor events due to sports or other classes, and due to the drive. I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels the way I do. For years (maybe a decade or more)the WII have taken the easiest way out of AoL and all requirements. I'm the first in anyone's memory that has pushed for full and complete advancement. We were the first campers in over 10 years. Last year's WII counted 1 hike for 3-4 different requirements. That WDL's wife is the out going CC. My boys have played by the rules and completed everything. I just feel like all the work I've put into the boys and the sense of fair play, honesty, and responsibility have gone to pot due to a few, for lack of better words, lazy parents. Sorry for the rant.

A quick of history - there are 9 boys in my WII den, 3 have completed all 20 pins, and all their AoL requirements and are waiting for their 6 months past 4th grade graduation. 6 boys are at various levels of completion of AoL and all have 9-16 pins. 3 boys played CYO sports for their school this fall, they have yet to attend a meeting (3 den, 1 pack and a troop visit so far). Many outdoor troop visits have been offered to the group (this fall and last spring/fall) to fulfill the AoL requirement of attending an outdoor Scouting activity with a troop. All events this fall have fallen on game days for the CYO sports kids but the others chose not to go. No one had conflicts last spring/fall they just didn't want to go - too far, not interested in event, too cold, too wet, you get the picture. I have arranged a hike with the big brother troop that the 6 in question will more than likely go to a couple of weeks before our scheduled AoL and crossover ceremonies at the end of November. The SM for that troop has a lousy record of follow through and and even worse troop attendence at events like this in the past. My question - would you count a hike for AoL troop outdoor activity if only the SM shows up? If only 1-2 scouts and the SM show up? We had a heated exchange during our committee meeting tonight about this. I feel if the troop's not there it shouldn't count. The committee said we can't penalize the kids for others not showing up. Even if the SM doesn't show up I was told I had to count it for all my kids that did show up. The committee said that since many of the troop memebers can't drive yet and none of the WII could that they (the WIIs) shouldn't be penalized for troop members not coming. Taking that thought 1 step further do I count the hike for 1 kid as the AoL hike and the troop outdoor activity since he missed our AoL hike at camp due to his sister's dance recital? I say not but if I'm giving away advancements why not?

oldsm is right National Supply's block numbers are a very good value in more than 1 way. And I'm not saying this because I work for Supply. 2 digits blocks are $1.99 each, for 2 individual numbers it's $2.40 3 digit blocks are $2.99 each, for 3 individual numbers it's $3.60 4 digit blocks are $3.99 each, for 4 individual number it's $4.80 Veteran bars can also be inserted for an additional amount, about a $1.50 I think. Blocks are SO much EASIER to sew on too. I've done it both ways and I'll wait for the Pack to get its order every time.

I tell my customers to do 2 things - put the kids name on it (laundry marker, name tape, Sharpie, etc) and buy the long sash. Junior will grow and the short sash will become too small very fast. Use a sash pin to help it fit.

Novice, Welcome back, even if it is just for a short stay. My guess and it is just a guess, is all you'll need to do is fill out an application for the pack as a Scoutparent or committee memeber at large and have a current YPT card and you should be OK. You'll need the current YPT card before your app can be turned in. A permission slip signed by the parents for the DL saying that Junior is OK to be with you probably wouldn't hurt either. My Pack is in an area that has a lot of swing shift workers, as a result we have a lot of kids that need to attend meeting/outings with someone other than Mom or Dad. One little guy had a stable of 4 partners (Mom, Grandpa, Uncle, and neighbor), but he came every week and excelled in the program. Communication was challenging but doable. The Pack registered all the people with the Pack and we went on our way so to speak. Another option would be for Mom to bring the little one(s) to the den meetings. I had a family do that in my den (triplet siblings). I had a couple of only children in the den and both parents came to every meeting. When the triplets had to come one of the only's parents pitched in with the over whelmed Mom's kid. Maybe you could go and be the extra hands if the Pack doesn't want to register you. Thanks for helping keep a little guy in the program. As the spouse of a swing shifter I know how the Mom in your case feels. If it weren't for the help of family, friends and neighbors my kids would have never gotten to do the things they've done if it was me by myself. THANK YOU for helping out!

Welcome to the herd. We are a fairly rare breed in my area. We don't usually get enough students to get to an antelope patrol around here. Enjoy weekend 2.

Eagle92, Took care of the advancement items in June and August. I hate getting caught with my pants down. For the little bit of extra time it'll take to count them at inventory, it'll be worth it to hve them there when needed. You're right BSA doesn't say thank you enough to any of its volunteer. Somrthing we need to work on.

ghermanno, an idea were kicking around in my district is mass emailing all the registered Scout families with information about upcoming events. It has worked well for our day camp program at the Cub level. It takes time to build the list, and people can elect to be dropped at any time. What we found, especially at the Cub level, is that if the unit leader isn't interested in an event he/she doesn't pass the information on to the rest of the den/pack/troop/etc. Some families will attend an event solo if they know about it. Others won't go even if you give them free admittance, a ride there and back and held their hands the whole time if no one from their unit isn't there. As I'm learning from some of my LDS customers in my store, leaders aren't volunteers they are "called" to be leaders. A popular term in my area is they are voluntold to be leaders. Some look at it as a great opportunity to give to the kids of the church and embrace the project with gusto and learn and do all they can. Some see it as a major burden, they do it grudgingly and with little effort. I feel sorry for those kids. Non-LDS kids in an LDS based mixed unit may love to come to a camporee or event but haven't been told about it by a less than willing leader. Get them the information, hook them and you get their LDS unit mates to come to the next event. Good luck. I have to say getting people to events isn't just an LDS problem. It is a problem in general, at least in my area.

The Den & Pack Resource Guide is just that a resource guide. A VERY, VERY highly recommended resource, but a resource none the less. The purpose of the book as presented to me at the Philmont Training Center and in webinairs is to serve as guide to insure advancement and some level of uniformity across the country in program deleivery. Remember that Bears have options, so do Webelos, in what is covered. As long as you cover the required number of achievements from each section you're fine. You can substitute a family for a family, a country for a country, etc. If you look at the "required" list whittling isn't covered. What Bear cub doesn't want to earn that Whittling Chip and get his very first pocket knife? You could double up an achievement or 2 in one week by doing a field trip to a local nature center or museum in addition to your regular den meeting (this goes for all levels of the program). Let the professionals do some of your work for you. In my area several sites do Cub/Webelos activity days where the kids can get an achievement or activity badge in a couple of hours for a small fee. You can't get into police stations in my area, so doing the Law Enforcement section isn't an option. Our Bears have always had to do something else for that section. You can also assign homework, have families work on requirement 10 at home. Watch a TV show/movie then discuss it. Do a puzzle or play a board game or build something without a TV going. A very easy weekend of family activites, heck a couple of hours of family time and and achievement is done. Spend Well, is another easily accomplished one at home. A trip to the grocery store to compare generic and name brands, figure out the cost per person for a meal (info on your cash register slip) and discuss how bank accounts work. That's 2 Family requirements done in short order. This would free up a couple of den meeting for other requirements more suited to den instruction. Keep up the good work. You are doing what I wish every leader would do you're planning ahead and preparing for the meetings. You'd be amazed how many calls I get at my Scout Shop looking for something to do with the den an hour or two before the meeting. Hopefully the Resource Guide will help these folks out a bit. Also visit your local Roundtable and ideas there too.

My pack doesn't really theme its family camps. We have done one that centered around the farm that was at the Metropark we were at and we just had a Webelos outdoorsman weekend (it's only the Webelos den that camps anyway, everyone was invited to come). One pack in the area has a pinewood derby camp. Go to camp get your kit, cut it, paint it, tweak it all you want, then they impound the cars. The race is later that week at the meeting hall. Great way to make sure the boys make their cars. That's all I'ver heard of for themes in this area.

If the badge is indeed "live" the scouts still won't get a badge for it until Fall 2011. They aren't even available for order until then per Supply's last coming items list (August 2010). Until the requirements show up in a Requirements Book (released annually) or a Merit Badge Pamphlet comes out I wouldn't trust anything I read online. We had the same problems with the 13 new Cub Scout belt loops and pins earlier this year. "Requirements" were all over the web months before they were official and parents were irrate because Junior had "done it" even before they were officially announced and before any products were available. Just my $0.02 as a store employee about to be yelled at yet again for not having what isn't available yet.

Per the memos from National Supply to all National stores, Geocaching won't be released officially until fall of 2011. There are no OFFICIAL requirements at this time. Anything you see on any websites other than www.scouting.org is merely a guess as to what the requirements will be. MBPs are still being developed and printed. They too won't be in stores until next fall. Robotics is scheduled for release this winter - February sometime.

I haven't heard about national doing away with the traditional cub blue uniform. I have heard about the trial in Baltimore with the UnderArmor - don't know where that'll lead. Some high level people from Baltimore that I have spoken with said they don't think the UA is going over that well either. It certainly won't be any cheaper. I just priced some of it for my son for football season. NO WAY.

Supply has already roled out the "lovely" new pants. The $60 zelcro at the ankle rip stop nylon ones. Who ever thought them up doesn't go into the field very often. No plans for more "wonderful" stuff at this time. They are too busy finding ways to undermine the uniform of cub scouts with cheap blue jeans and rank t-shirts in the stores.

Eagle92 - It's not supply with the problem, it's the stores that wait too long to order their supplies. There are thousands of rank emblems in stock (2010 and regular) at the warehouse right now. A good store manager will be ordering his/her supply of ranks for CS within the next month. After the initial fall round up is completed the manager should be talking to their council and finding out how many kids there are at each level and order accordingly. I have personally ordered this fall's bobcat supply for my store (got them in June). Nothing worse than diappointing a new kid to the program. The problem with the 2010 badges was the idiots at the warehouse brought them out 2 weeks before B&G season kicked off. But as other threads on other topics of this forum discuss national's inability to follow through in a timely manner on their announcements, it wasn't surprising to have supplies be limited. But to their defense (not sure they should get one) every store should have had enough of the original badges in stock by that time to do the job anyway. I'm not terribly concerned about the problem this year, I had my badges ordered and received by November 2009. So when we revert to the original badges after the New Year I should be set. As for when to give a badge out, the policy is as soon as possible. My pack tried to refuse my son his Bear in September of that year. I politely told them that if they weren't going to follow the national policies I would find a pack that did and most of my den would be coming with me. Amazingly we got the badge at the September pack meeting. As for repeating what has already been done at home with the den, odds are you aren't going to do exactly the same activity twice so it shouldn't be a big deal.

Jet - IMHO you have joining and registering confused. An application is for registration with the BSA it truly has nothing to do with joining a troop or becoming a scout. It is a tracking and financial document. Once a AoL recipient (or any 11+ year old boy joining) pays his $1 transfer/intial fee to the BSA with the accompanying form he is a Boy Scout in the eyes of the BSA. He hasn't completed his joining (basically initiation) requirements, but he is considerd a Boy Scout for intents and purposes. He may never earn the level of Scout but he can still attend camps and events as a Boy Scout. All that truly counts is that he is registered and covered under the BSA insurance and safety policies. Not turning in a Scout's application until he has completed the Scout level is a great disservice to the Scout and his family. God forbid an accident happens during a troop game and he not registered because he hasn't finished his Scout badge yet. Is your troop going to shell out for the medical or dental bills incurred from the unfortunate accident? If your thinking is correct then no Cub Scout can be a Cub Scout until he finishes his Bobcat Badge. It is to Cubs what the Scout Badge is to Boy Scouts. Having done several boy talks in both the spring and fall I have registered several kids that come for 1-2 meetings and quit/never return. Heck we routinely get 1-2 every spring that register and never ever come to a meeting in the fall. But they are still Cubs or BS until re-charter time. We'd never dream of holding those applications and money for months until the kids came to meeting. The money and forms are turned in immediately to the Council and these kids are now Scouts aka members of the BSA. Becoming a member of the BSA and completing the intitation requirements for any level are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. It is imparative that the applications and the fees be turned in ASAP. The rest of the requirements can wait.

ParkMan, I think they are doing both. They site is being built in the middle of the woods from the ground up vs. an equipped military base. There is NOTHING repeat NOTHING there. The BSA has to build it ALL. That said I wouildn't be surprised to see the focus of the event change too. At least for the next Jambo. More basics and less flash. just my $0.02. Also with less infrastucture in place I would expect it to have a lower attendence limit too. One other thing noted at the discussions at Philmont is that rail/Amtrak lines go right by the border of our property. There are hopes that the BSA and Amtrak can team up to provide some sort of transportation services to reduce the number of car/vans and buses coming through the wilderness. This would also decrease the need for road building and extensive engineering projects for the first Jambo. I think it'd be really neat to have the kids come in by rail. Not many kids these days have ridden on a train.

Speedy, They come in boxes of 200 for fiber tags and 500 for cardboard tags. They are pretty expensive compared to some of the other options listed. IM me if you really want the tags. I think I have a couple of boxes in my store.

Having been at Philmont earlier this summer and having some very high ranking Texas folks there, here's what we were told. The Summit will be the new Jambo site. It will run a summer camp style program after it's first Jambo (we'll be lucky to have it completed by then). It will also run a high adventure base featuring mountain bikin, whitewater rafting/canoeing, and rock climbing/repelling, backpaking will also probably be available. Facilities (campsites, trails) have to be built in the state/national forest next to the Summit to support the summer programs. A training center like Philmont will also be built in the future. The Jambo comes first, then high adventure, summer camp of some sort and then the training center. The point that was driven home over and over again during the discussion of this awesome facility is that the next Jambo WILL NOT BE LIKE ANYTHING IN RECENT HISTORY (caps for emphasis). It will very likely be quite primitive by this year's standards. And potetnially much smaller too.

I agree that we need woodcraft/scoutcraft training for adult leaders. I grew up in Girl Guides and have been an avid car camper my entire life. But I DON'T feel prepared to teach my boys some of the needed skills - knots, whittling/axe/saws/etc, lashings, back country anything, etc. I can kick butt in first aid, swimming/lifesaving, scout history, event planning. But I can't teach basic scout skills - I've NEVER learned them. I've been exposed to them in IOLS, BALOO, Webelos Outdoor Skills, but never had a chance to do them for more than 10-30 minutes (at most in most classes it was just watch someone do it), practice them with a mentor, or apply them. I don't subscribe to those that can do and those that can't teach. I'd love to be able to DO and TEACH. The truly scary thing for me is that I can do some of these things better than some of my previous instructors. Had one instructor that couldn't follow his own instructions to tie a bowline using the bunny and the tree method. He could tell you the steps from a book (I guess) but couldn't put his hands on mine and help me. After a while of fiddling with the rope I got it. I'd love to be on training staff in my district but I don't have the flippin' bits of wood and leather hanging off my neck. Have been to PTC twice, but I still don't "know anything" without the bits of wood and leather (by the way the ones in my store look more like pleather and plastic). I have done WB class, haven't completed the ticket, don't know if I will - long story , VERY BAD CLASS. But still don't "know anything" cause there are no beads on my neck yet. ABLE class isn't the answer. Great course from what I've heard but not the solution to this problem. Adult leader shouldn't have to go to the PTC and take Teaching IOLS to improve there own skills. We need more activity appropriate training with skilled instructors. The current WB doesn't come close to what a leader in the trenches needs. And it needs to be billed for what it is a management course, not the be all and end all of training.

Beads, smeads. I had a rotten WB class and could care less about completing a ticket and getting the dumb wood bits. I learned very little and spent money the family didn't have to go to the class. I went to learn to be a better leader, didn't get anything in the class that I hadn't learned from the Red Cross, Royal Lifesaving Society or Girl Guides as a youth, add in a couple of team/staff development courses various employers brought in and you have WB 21st Century. If you really want to get a higher level of training visit the Philmont Training Center or one of the National sponsored courses at Seabase. Cousres are taught by instructors that are doing what you want to learn and doing it well (otherwise they wouldn't be teaching it). I wish I could have my WB money back. Went to the PTC before WB and after WB class, would gladly have spent the WB money at the PTC. Thought WB would be helpful and enlightening. It wasn't. To those with "antique" beads consider yourself lucky you learned what you needed to be a Scout leader. I have come to realize in Scouts (Boys and Girls), and many other fields, that if you are surrounded by people that don't want to change no matter how much training you have and how gung ho you are you can't cause change. All you really do is piss the people around you off. Share your knowledge with those that want to be enlightened, change will eventually catch up to the first group and swallow them whole.

There are lots of opportunities in my area for girls to be outside and have adventures. However that doesn't mean that they do it. My daughter's troop considers an overnighter at the mall or an indoor waterpark as camping. They went to a weekend camp last year for a day and a half and you'd have thought they had stayed out for weeks. My daughter loves summer camps, so she goes on her own each year. We have used Southeast Michigan camps and Heart of Michigan camps (that's this year). Go to www.gssem.org and www.gshom.org to check out the camps.