SSScout

Yea verily....

Best to have older Scouts teach and practice with the younger as much as possible.  I dare say there is a local Troop where the senior Scouts would love to show off their prowess.

In the mean time, try this website:    http://www.inquiry.net/   

Cell phones... GPS units....  Oh, I have stories....

Pictures, emergency communication (if you have "signal". Ever watch RV with Robin Williams?) 

Map and compass is still the best idea.  Wife is headed out to a memorial service for a friend, several hours drive . I kiss her goodbye and remind her "you've got maps of those states behind your seat" she says "no problem, got my phone."   Still, just in case.....

Ever try to GPS a place and you discover you are too close to a mega giga volt power line?  Oh, I forgot to recharge....   Some kids do not even KNOW how to turn off the phone to save battery, they never had to before !

I basically do not like ONLY having a 3" view of the earth's surface.  Planning our family vacation, laying out the maps on the floor, seeing that home is HERE,  Niagara falls is HERE, these are the roads we will drive, oh , look a museum ! A Park!  That name sounds interesting !   I reject "suggestions" from an algorithm.  I accept them from a "person". 

In keeping with the idea that "all Scouting is local", the BSA set the CO model with the idea that the local  Charter org would be in the logical place to know their leaders and (if they favored Scouting that much)  would therefore keep tabs on the soundness of their leaders' appropriateness (?).  

GSUSA , to my ken, never went that way.  The local GSUSA Service Area names the GScout Troops, and approves the leaders. Hence my never being a GS leader for my daughter's Brownies, and her not wanting to join, thirty some  years ago.

The BSA model is great "on paper", but it turns out  the CO can (has often) just say  "where do I sign, go away and have fun Scouting"  without  even trying to vet the Scout leaders they "okayed" by signing the papers.....

22 hours ago, yknot said:

Wouldn't the liability concerns for any future charter though be the same as for any old charter? The UMC COs that are switching to facilities use around here are doing so because they don't trust the liability situation and coverage going forward with BSA. It's not just child abuse concerns either but what would happen if there was an injury claim or some other problem. The BSA has a lot of the traditional COs completely rattled and spooked and from where I sit it doesn't look like those reactions are without cause. An organization they trusted for decades and took at their word because of their promotion of things like The Scout Law has suddenly become unrecognizable.  I don't know that I could ask any other community group to be a CO in good conscience right now. To me the solution for now  seems to be the Council because then at least if there are any problems going forward it's not going to hurt the people at my local Elks or FD or any other group I might ask. 

You've convinced me.  I was thinking the same way, but the fact that my home Troop has always been at the UMC for the last coming up on 70 years  with no discernable problems  kept me thinking ?"new CO."

On 9/15/2021 at 10:10 PM, jcousino said:

We now sell Moon pies for us a local American made product.

And RC Cola?  

1) The Order of the Arrow is meant to be: A) a recognition of the quality of a Scout's skill in camping B) care of his/her fellow Scouts C) a means for the more experienced Scout to work with and socialize with other Scouts D) help example the idea of "cheerful service" to others, without thought of personal recognition. Except sweat and dirt, perhaps.  Popularity contest?  In some respects. What leads to that popularity? 

2) Was it possible that some few  adult leaders responsible for oversight of OA activities  might be guilty of sexual abuse of the Scouts?  Yes, possible.

3) If and when the National BSA became aware of such abuse, what did the NBSA do about it?   What , if anything, did the local Council do about it?   What, if anything, did the sponsoring CO do about it?  Promote criminal prosecution or merely try to deny the "alleged" perpetrator further membership in the BSA?  There is plenty of  lax responsibility to share .  The rugs under which to sweep such have been eliminated . 

4)  It is unfortunate that some COs (Methodist Church comes to immediate mind) seek elimination of possible liability by cutting off the Unit Charter now.  Such will not eliminate their alleged responsibility back in 1989.  If a UMC Deacon was found guilty of child abuse in 1989, that church back in 1989  has that responsibility , not the UMC today.... Any abuse back then cannot be disavowed by cutting the contract today.   But the liability  NOT accepted by BSA on behalf of the COs   is what's leading to this  abandoning of the ship.  Or rather the ship's abandoning of it's passengers? 

5) Any word on the rumor of a "new"  settlement condition offer that might  ameliorate the UMC disaffection? 

15 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

Not sure if your comment was tongue in cheek...I hope it was.  That same link says more than 600,000 died of the 1918 Flu (no longer PC to call it the "Spanish Flu").  

ooops.   proof reading failure is common in my family....  millions.....     that 600,000. is American deaths (low estimate) only.   

corrected above entry.  I apologize for the slip...   here's a reference....

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu  

The Spanish (so called) flu spent most of 1918 and 1919 to disappear, without vaccines, with very little medical science prevention or correction.  We finally got "herd immunity".  Only took about 50 or 60 million premature deaths world wide....  

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/influenza/

I have two memorable memories of Cub Scout Day Camp.  

1)   I am "Scout Skills".   First day is "Flag Ettiquette"   The Cubs learn about the US flag 's history, symbolism and how to respectfully do things with it, notably th traditional folding.  With twenty some Cubs in each session, and three Boy Scout Assistants,  I always had a large number of flags of various sizes to play with.  I always handed a few to the accompanying Den Walkers, much to their surprise, and required (not merely invite them !) to participate. WOw, the reactios I got sometimes, but they got into it eventually.  Moms and Dads folding flags.

Then, second day was Rope and Knots.   Got'em tying bowlines too.   "No, I can't do this"...  Yes you can, and they did .

2)   Nature Pavilion....   Leave No Trace/ Outdoor Ethics day....   at the end of the session I send the Cubs out , buddy(ed) for five minutes with the instruction to "pick up anything God didn't put there". Always surprised at how much trash one can find in a "clean: park".  One session one year, lady in the back was on her cell, ,,, ".... Well, I can't believe how much WORK I'll have to catch up on monday... Yeah, well I really don't know why they couldn't find SOMEone else for this week. My kid's no problem.  I don't need to be  here...." and she went on for those five minutes.  I could only think, poor kid....

##1   The Work Is Done By Whoever Shows Up.

##2   If you do not have a connection with your  kid by the time they're 12, you will not have one when they are 18 or 19. Scouting, especially Cubs can give you that connection.

##3  It ain't that hard. It is fun.  You will meet and make many new friends along the way.   

##4    It is the trail, the journey that is important, not necessarily any particular "goal".  Those are just there to mark one's progress along the jpurney. There will ALWAYS be another mountain to aim for. 

Welcome to the virtual campfire, Sigma....

If you travel around in Scout circles sufficiently, you will see some "necklaces".  Various awards on ribbons and leather strings, (yes, I would include these as "necklaces"), religious obeisances (see above mention) ,  some Troops/OA lodges award beads for activities and these wind up on a necklace.   As mentioned above, if worn under the uni, there should be no problem. If worn outside, be prepared to discuss your reason/rationale . If not part of a recognized faith, it may be viewed as more of a "good luck" piece than a religious token.  If not a "Scout " thing , even semi officially,  you maybe asked to not display it publicly in connection with your Scout uniform.  Would you?  

A personal story with , perhaps , some signifigance.  I served as a Scoutmaster for a summer camp Troop one time. The named SPL was a good Scout, took his duties seriously but the second day he turned out for flags in a camo outfit. I took him aside and I had to ask him what this outfit was and where his uniform was? He said this was a Marine BDU his dad (a retired DI !) had given him.  I said are YOU in the Marines (he was 15)? He said no. I said what are you IN?  He said the Boy Scouts. I asked, are you proud of being a Scout (he was Star)? He responded yes.   I said, alright, then why aren't you in the proper uniform for your "outfit"?   He said (quote) "I didn't bring it with me because I wanted to wear this.".  We hobbled together a Scout Uniform for him out of other Scout's and the camp's closet.  As I said, he took his duties as SPL seriously and the rest of the Troop worked well that summer.  How do you think this story might apply to your situation?  Maybe not at all? 

AAAAANNNND that's how many one hour weeks?

12 times 6o = 720 ?   12 times 100 = 1200 ?   

But then, who's counting....

Recommend two movies, both available on DVD....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/759:_Boy_Scouts_of_Harlem       https://www.facebook.com/759-Boy-Scouts-of-HarlemThe-Movie-61236561838/

https://www.amazon.com/759-Scouts-Harlem-NTSC-Original/dp/B002PNSJ2Q     or you can find it and stream it.

The Adventures of the Muddy Lions, Troop 491. . ..  https://www.troop491-movie.com/product-page/signed-muddy-lions-dvd

Curing malaria and preventing cholera are not the only Public Health concerns....

This from a Cub Scout FaceBook page.....

Contact your District Commissioner. He/she can advise . "All Scouting is Local"  . First be aware that Council and District will not get officially involved unless there are YP or other criminalities  involved.  That said....

Time for the CCH to make contact (long overdue?) with the CO. The DCommish may help here.  The COR represents the Unit to the BSA. The Institution Head (somebody signed the charter agreement) must be involved here, and the CCH must make her/him aware of the CO's responsibility and the COR's problems.  My understanding (check  with the DCommish) the CO agreement requires the COR to be a member of the CO.  If he is not ? ? ? 

Officially, the COR and the IHead can fire/approve/"hire"  any Scout volunteer listed on the charter each year.  Tred carefully. It is not a pure democracy.  The CO can nix any Committee desire to transfer the charter to another CO. Or approve it.  It wouldn't hurt to knock on some other doors, unofficially. 

Tell your friend "good luck"  and to remember we are in this for the Scouts, not ourselves.    Might want to remind the CO's IH about that.  

See you on the trail 

"All Scouting Is Local"

"It Depends"

Here abouts in Murlin,   each county decides .  No way to know until you  ask.   In my county, no in person, in class  presentations .  Flyers for the take home backpack are accepted on a very strict schedule, you have to have them in the school by a certain date, in packets of 25 (or 30?)  for each class. In hall posters are at the discretion of the Principal. Flyers on the "take one" table also at the principal's discretion. All is a "all or not at all"  arrangement, all sports leagues, kid's clubs, etc. or none at all allowed. 

13 hours ago, Armymutt said:

That was my experience circa '82.  I was really confused by the changes when we returned almost 40 years later.  Dens by grade rather than by geography?  No more arrow points?  What about the little plastic thing with beads hanging from your right pocket?  Our pack does keep the same den number as the kids progress, but no one sews it on their shirt.  They already have an identifying feature - all the same grade.  

Oh, we were all in the same grade, but neighborhood, our families knew each other. Of course, "neighborhood" meant something different back then, country, farms, etc. separated us alot, but my first Den Mother was right across the road from us.   But back in MY paleoScout days, ( I did the math.... Webelos in 1959. ) we had no beads.  You earned the rank patch as soon as you could and then pursued the "elective" Arrow Points for various projects. All those little Arrow patches to sew on. My mom made me sit down and watch as she did it.  Bobcat was a pin , earned for learning the Cub Promise and Law of the Pack, salute, handshake (two fingers!) etc.  and THEN you went on to the ranks,  Kids joined thru any grade,  I remember some felt bad they couldn't earn the Wolf or Bear, but they joined late in life (!).  At least one of these late joiners got his Eagle, much later....  

I do think that the BSA changed things, pretty much "because we can"....   Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Lion,  Webelos.....   Seemed a natural gradation of animal.     What is Lion, Tiger, Wolf, Bear?   

Kosnoff is why the BSA has existed.  The "program", not the abuser....    One cannot legislate morality.  

The purpose of the BSA, of ANY Scout type organization (or school, or church)  cannot   be  the physical,  mental or , sexual abuse  of kids.  It is the depraved adult or previously abused kid that seeks to use the cover of the organization for their personal gratification that is the problem.  If the organization covers up, or corporately IGNORES the abusive person, , that is not reason for the organizations existence, but is a major problem in itself. THAT is why the BSA is where it is today.  The leadership of decades ago should be here to see the results of their corporate choices. 

Many , most of the abusers are now dead and gone.  They cannot be held to account. The BSA is still here and is being made to face and accept the responsibility of it's prior decisions.  Shame on the prior leadership for hoping the problem would go away if ignored and not criminally addressed. 

15 hours ago, gpurlee said:

Also, we attempt (often unsuccessfully) to keep the focus of the thread on the original topic (is there a merit badge in cat-herding?)

Well, it can be said that the other way 'round could occur.....

BSA was and is a National organization. And a Local phenomenon.   As such, the High Mucky Mucks had to protect their turf (so they felt). That is, I feel , at base,  how we got here.  The response to sexual abuse of our young (and old?) has changed drastically, for the best.  And BSA, and various churches and other organizations (my French teacher of Middle School years was recently arrested and is being tried.  Recent events and long ago events being examined) are learning what it means to no longer have a rug to sweep things under. 

Bankruptcy,  better Abuse Prevention and Response Training (it's not really "Youth Protection"  alone, is it?) better personal responsibility.   If a Scout is "Trustworthy" and she/he tells us something we'd rather not have to hear,,,,   how do we respond?   We learn from the past or we are truly condemned to repeat it.

Are the Scouts of today and tomorrow being made to PAY for the mistakes and avoidances of the past?   Unfortunately , yes, to some very necessary degree.  The local phenomena will sustain the National org.  Always did.  But now, I feel,  all of us Scouter types have more knowledge and thus more say.  Don't we?   

If you see something, say something? 

Moderators,  (facilitators a better title, say I).... The Scouter dot com world is very flexible and adaptable.   Perhaps the BIG thread could be divided, but to what end?  SOMEBODY needs to start a new discussion/debate/chat room on "The Future of Scouting , post bankruptcy, post pandemic, post abuse settlements, post Cal Fires, post lost camps, post lost LDS Scouts, post lost Methodist Troops, post lost Catholic Troops, post YSL  uni, post lose of the Necker/woggle, post higher coffee prices......"

You want whipped cream with your peach cobbler?

15 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

According to my old books, Wolf was 3rd grade, Bear was 4th Grade,  Lion was 5th with Webelos being earned at the end of the year and you crossed over.

I think you may be right.   Lion was the highest Cub rank, and Webelos was an "exit" award. You were ready for Boy Scouts, so Lions would be 11 years old into Webelos.....

Arrow award  (not of Light yet, ) was the sealing of the Cub program.

Gadfry, that was a long time ago.......

Ho kay, let's dig out the history....  One blue shirt, Blue trousers (if you could afford them), One Blue and Yellow cap, One yellow necker, One metal slide/woggle.  Your Den was your neighborhood friends from school. Number stayed with you thru Cub Scouts.  Somebody's mom was the Den Mother (badge/patch read that).  

Bobcat (beginning for ANY Cub Scout , no matter when they joined).

Wolf  Second grade

Bear  third?

Lion   fourth....

Webelos   fifth....   

THEN into Boy Scouts....  Earn Tenderfoot and you're off....

Waaaay back in Paleo Scout days,  the Cub uniform was one cap, one shirt, one necker, one woggle ( I have mine in that back of closet shoebox)..  The Den stayed the same thruout, even to Webelos.  The RANK and Arrowheads (electives)  were added to the uni  shirt, that was all. AND.... I remember some Cubs who had to wear their shirt a little untucked to allow for the showing of all the Arrow Points under the Wolf, Bear , Lion badges.   

The big changes were , I agree, more of a money making thing , along with the added Bling thing. 

I know of at least one local Pack, pre pandemic, that agreed, totally among themselves, to ONLY buy ONE yellow necker and ONE Cub cap for all the Cub years until Webelos needed a tan shirt to cross over in.....   I never heard a complaint from Council or DE.... Now, admittedly, that was two years ago now, I do not know what happened to that Pack.  I know my home Pack is struggling. 

10 hours ago, docSquatch said:

Has anyone used remote apps for meetings during COVID; Google Classroom, Zoom, Teams, etc.? How did the Scouts/you like it?

I was signed up to lead  Bugling MB at a weekend  MBUniversity last Feb and March (two weekends !) I had done these in person for some years in the past.....  They had Google class set up but for some reason it wouldn't work on my machine, so my Meeting's techy  set me up with Zoom.  I started out with 20.  Scouts, Email, YP extra "copies" to willing Scouters I knew. Sent out pre requisites....  I divided the group into three sub groups, over three seperate nights.  I never heard from two of the first registrants.  The MBU was organized by a MD-Del Council. I had Scouts from MD and Del and ONE (!) from San Diego.  Over ZOOM, I was able to talk to and demonstrate and listen to everybody fairly easily.  We got together four more times, not just the two originally scheduled.  That's alot of Zoom nights. .  Scouts dropped out as it became clear (as usual) that some were expecting an easy sit thru the "class" and get the blue card , one was there because their first choice was full, and some really didn't think they could do it....  

I garnered alot of smiles and conversation about Scouting and music.  I saw improvement over time.  I was able to "sign"   8 ebluecards   by the end.  I made sure everyone knew their "result".  I later heard back from one "partial".   Three months later, in June, I had an email from a ASM about a Scout's blue card? Could you send a new copy?  I had to email him back saying this Scout had not passed the requirements "he didn't play the calls", but he had all my contact info and never called me back to finish.  Never heard more from him.

The San Diego Scout was very good (maybe not the next Wynton Marsalis, but good!).  I was glad to send him his eBluecard.