SSScout

Pelf. I miss that word, but the poem still rings true. 

Ryobi?   I have two of their lanterns. Except for the lousy handles (which I replaced/adapted) they are rugged, the rechargeable batteries are relatively expensive, but in the long run are very economical.  The 3 and 4 amphour batteries will last over 12 hours at low light.  Note I covered one side with shiny foils, no need to light up the woods, just the work surface... 

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Ultimately the Board has a fiduciary duty to take actions in the best interests of the corporation.  The way the system is constructed invariably leads to decisions that have nothing to do with the best interests of future Scouts.

Money before people.

Aye , they be more like guidelines, actually...."

Council camps are often thought of as ONLY Scout camps.   Further seeing Council management can see more trees in the forest, to mix a metaphor...

* Rental to other outdoor groups/useage.  

*Nature study areas.

* Government easements for nature preservation. Ex: American Chestnut Hybrid,  Green exchanges,  

*Selective logging (operant word is "SELECTIVE")

* With some imaginative building, rental for private activities: Weddings, receptions, church retreats.

* Our Meeting grounds were recently named a "Certified Wildlife Habitat" by the National Wildlife Federation.  Easy, nice to promote things that are endemic to Scouting, yes?

* Sports events , school nature study,  create a relationship with the local Park service.  

*Hiking trails?   Birding Clubs?  

.... or just sell the damn place and pay off the debts and get ready to collect my pension....

3 hours ago, Christi13 said:

This sounds eerily like the rumors that are going around my council right now.  That whole situation is what I've heard from other volunteers. We love our camp but don't trust the Scout Executive. 

Growing up, our family lived on a country road (which is now a regular heavily trafficed commuter route), about a short mile from a country store. This store was owned/run by a family, Mrs. "Smith" was the usual lady behind the counter.  My mom and I would walk up to get the occasional loaf of bread and eggs and maybe a Popsickle for me.  It became apparent to me, even at my tender age, that Mrs. Smith was often "forgetful" about correct change.  When I became old enough to make the walk myself on an errand, my dad counseled, " if you ever shake hands with Mrs. Smith, be sure to count your fingers afterward."

Shaking hands with the SE ?

Search "Owassippee "  on this site for a distinctly interesting history of CO involvement with the Council Exec Board.... 

Wii Totin' Chip ?

Games are for the purpose of practicing in fiction what may not be learned in reality.  Not everyone can  (or may want to be) a slum lord realtor millionaire, but you can play Monopoly. 

Shooting games, car crash games allow folks to "play" at killing and destruction.  We had the same discussion with our kids as they grew up ("Heck, mom, IT"S ONLY A GAME !"), yes, but what are you learning to do?  What are you practicing to do?  Getting better at?  Perfecting?   

What was the last 20 minutes of "Ender's Game" about?

**thank you, Jimi **

Owl along the Wood Badge,  Beavers kept the view.

While Ant’lopes  came and went,   Bear foot Bison, too.

Outside  working their ticket , Bob White did its growl,

Two Eagles were reproaching, and the Fox began to HOWL,,,,, HEY,,EY !!

Firstly, I caution a long think before your Committee adopt any "By-Laws".  Getting legslistic can have undesired side affects.  Will it let you point to the "rule" and  it's consequences?  Certainly, but then that becomes a challenge to be sidestepped. Witnesses,  does it REALLY mean that, etc...

A good SM can use the Scout Law as basis of his/her Scoutmaster Minute at the end of the meeting.  It can bring things together, it can point out, without being PERSONAL,  what needs to be said .  Your SM might be encouraged to consider this, twelve months of inspiration at your doorstep. There are 12 points in the BSA Scout Law, other countries have less or more. Research can show what is similar, what is different.  But they are all very much the same at base. Bullies never like the Scout Law, it means too much self examination, too much holding to account, too much concern for "the other guy", not alot  for yerself. 

That said, the authority to remove ANY Troop adult leader lays with NOT the Committee, but with the Charter Org Rep and the Institution Head. They can , at any time , politely write a letter, copy to the Council Scout Executive,  informing that (for whatever reason)  the SM's services are no longer required or accepted as of (this date). Thank you very much for your prior service, we wish you well in your future endeavors (but not with THIS Troop. And with the Council Scout Executive's knowledge, probably not with any other in that Council). 

Before that has to happen, many cups of tea and/or coffee should be drunk with the offending person to attempt to understand her/his attitude, problem, reasons.  Do they even know what is happening around them?  

Tell me again, why are we in Scouting? 

The first thing is, welcome to our Scouter Forum, where if you ask any 5 of us for an opinion or reference, you'll get 6 answers.

Now, bullying is NOT Scoutlike.  When you have the chance to observe/interrupt such, ask the Scout responsible, "which point of the Scout Law might apply to  your action ?  Was it Kind, or Courteous? Or Trustworthy?  Or Helpful ?"

It's been ALOT of years ago, but there was a Scout in my Troop of Yooth that needed (that was the term, I realized) to feel superior to every other Scout, and made sure you knew HE was the BOSS, physically.  He had a dad that , to be simply put, was not at all like my dad.  Sometimes the kid just chooses the wrong parent, I guess.  I was not alone in my response to him, many others found it necessary to tell him , in person, Scout to Scout, so to speak, to "buzz off" , and knock off the stupid stuff.  I realize not every Troop will have the kids I grew up with, but if the adults will acknowledge the bad , unScoutlike behavior,  very often the Scouts will take care of things.  Of course, if things are really dangerous in behavior, the adults need to step in early.   Adult exampling becomes important. Do the Adults cooperate, discuss, come to a consensus ?  Do they ACTIVELY approve, reward (both publicly and in private) the good behavior  and disabuse the bad?  

We promote and encourage and WATCH AND HEAR the Scouts recite the Scout Promise and Law.  Can we then make them realize the reality of these ideals and the POSSIBITY of making these things active in the world?  "Awww, no one really follows this stuff...  Why do we have to memorize these worthless words, really?"   Have you heard or seen the result of this "stuff"?   

Really? 

Jake eventually quit our Troop.  

Harbinger of things to come ?

https://wellsvillesun.com/blog/2022/09/07/summer-camp-becomes-a-victim-of-new-yorks-gun-safety-law/? 

Compooter,  schmarty fones,   lack of SCRIPT writing.   I had to teach my Scoutson how to "SIGN " his name.  He never had handwriting in school after third grade.....

New York Times– Sept. 2, 2022
A Genius Cartoonist Believes Child’s Play Is Anything But Frivolous

By David Marchese
Photograph by Mamadi Doumbouya

For nearly 30 years, the cartoonist Lynda Barry published her adored comic strip “Ernie Pook’s Comeek,” which told the whimsical, hardscrabble story of the young sisters Marlys and Maybonne, in alternative papers across the country. (An anthology, “It’s So Magic,” was published earlier this month.)

She has since written acclaimed plays and novels and even a beloved book on making comics. (That would be the straightforwardly titled “Making Comics,” from 2019.)

For the last two decades, she has often led drawing, writing and creativity workshops in prisons, at schools, online — wherever will have her. And since 2012, Barry, a 66-year-old who in 2019 received a MacArthur Foundation fellowship — the so-called genius grant — has been at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where she has held various positions and now does cross-disciplinary teaching on creativity.

So when it comes to self-expression, to making art, it’s fair to say that she’s an expert. But in many ways, not nearly as much of an expert as your average little kid, which is something Barry has been thinking about a lot lately. “Adults think that kids playing is some nothing thing,” she says. “But play is a different state of mind, and it can help us do so many things if we just allow ourselves to get back to it.”

For a lot of people, being creative and making things can be a helpful way to deal with uncertainty, and college students today have to deal with so much uncertainty. Not just about where their lives might go after they finish school but also about things like the future of our politics and our planet.

How do you see your students responding?

Barry: I know what you’re talking about. These kids are also feeling that every choice should have some utility, and everybody’s freaked out about how they’re going to make a living. Plus, they have $60,000 in debt. How does someone get out from under that?

But here’s the big difference I’ve seen over the last few years in the people I work with: They don’t have a big relationship to their hands. I’ve had to show them how to cut a circle out of paper. You keep the scissors there and you move the paper like this, and they’re like, “What?!” There’s so much dexterity that they, by and large, do not have.

Is that because of phones?

Barry: Yeah, and kids start keyboarding in kindergarten. Handwriting, that thing that we think is no big deal, there’s so much dexterity in it. Not just in the hand you’re writing with, but the nondominant hand is always in action, moving the paper, paying attention. I mean, there’s a reason people gesture while they talk. If somebody is trying to explain something complicated, and they have to sit on their hands, it’s much harder for them to explain it.

But is something important being lost if students lack a certain kind of manual dexterity, or is that just a change in how they move through the world?

Maybe it’s not bad, just different.

Barry: No! It’s really sad. The main thing about the phone is that you’re no longer where you are. You’re no longer in the room. You’re no longer anywhere. The opportunities to have an interaction with the things around you are taken away. I just see the world as richer without the phone.

I have a friend who’s a writer. No matter what we’re doing or whom he’s around, he’s on his phone. We were sitting out in a parking lot, and there was a guy who came out who was in this full orc costume with a shield. I thought, I’m not going to say anything. Let’s see if my friend looks up. The guy passed right by him and — it was outside a hotel — tried to get through a revolving door. There’s all this bump ba bump ba bump, and if my friend would have looked up, he would have seen an orc go by!

But he never looked up! Then later I told him, and he’s like, “That didn’t happen!” It totally did happen! So something that closes you off to the world that you’re in — I mean, I could be on TikTok all night long. I keep deleting that app because I love it so much. But something that takes you out of your environment, you pay a high price. You miss the orc.

I know that you’ve done work on pairing Ph.D. students with kindergartners so that the children can help the graduate students with problem-solving. What does that look like in practice?

Barry: They’re Ph.D. students from almost any discipline and 4-year-olds or 3-year-olds. It started because I noticed that whenever I was in some big creative jam, it was an interaction with a kid that got me out of it. They can really help you when you get stuck. When I started teaching at the university, I couldn’t understand why all the grad students were so miserable. I could pick out the grad students just by the way they walked in the room, you know?

These are people that are at the top of their game. They’ve already shown that they want to work. They’re interested in something. Why is it acceptable that they’re all miserable? I was trying to figure out what the misery was. Then I thought, it is this laser focus on getting one particular thing done. This feeling that unless you’re working on it at all times, things are going to be bad.

That kind of focus doesn’t set the conditions for insight or discovery. It’s like somebody yelling: “Relax! Relax!” It’s never going to work. But the kids could shift the students’ perspectives in really helpful ways. I had my students copy what the kids were doing, or I got the kids to draw the answer to questions like, “What are microbes?” And my students had to be on the floor with them working together. They had to try to get into their mind-set. It’s hard to explain, but it changes you. After you spend about 90 minutes with them, you just find that something has loosened up. You get away from that laser-focused, worrisome way of being.

I’ll bet there’s a not insignificant number of people in the world — in my head, I picture some no-nonsense businessman — who thinks that playing around on the floor is all well and good for kids, but it’s not really something for adults to be doing.

Is there any way to persuade those people of the value of trying to access that childlike mind-set? Why try?

Barry: Because those people run the world. I know! The reason they run the world is because of the way they were built. But it’s not going to help that person. If you don’t have a need to do it, you don’t get anywhere. Those guys, they don’t have a need. I mean, I think they need it. You think they need it. They don’t think they need it. So there’s not a lot we can do, and that’s the hardest thing to accept.

When I first started teaching, maybe I’d have 32 students in two classes. There would always be three or four who were dragging their tailpipes. I spent so much time on those students. I don’t anymore. I don’t crawl toward them with a glass of water like, Please, take this! It took me a long time to say I’m not going to be able to change somebody who doesn’t want to try or doesn’t need this. I’ve had fantasies of kidnapping one of these people. But what if I heard them saying that about me? That’d be the worst. “I want to kidnap that creativity chick and show her what being a Lutheran is all about.”

You used the phrase “the way they were built.” When it comes to playfulness, can a person change how he or she is built?

Barry: Whatever man we’re imagining, if you hand them their 8-month-old grandson, that man will dance, sing, tell stories. We still all can communicate that way. But there’s such profound amnesia about what kids are actually doing. There’s total amnesia of the experience of deep play.

When you’re an adult watching a kid playing with a little toy, you just think that kid’s doing that and there’s nothing else to it. But from the kid’s perspective that toy is playing with them. It’s interactive. There’s amnesia about the deepness of that interchange and amnesia about how when you’re making a story or making a painting it’s that same sort of interchange, and having that is what you’re born to do.

Your own childhood was pretty rough, and art helped you get through it. Is there a connection between that and your ongoing interest in kids and their creativity?

Barry: People often ask me why my protagonists are so often children or teenagers. I can make a top-of-the-mind answer for that, which is that children or teenagers are protagonists who can’t drive away by themselves out of a situation. It’s just easier to write about.

So childhood is a central subject for you because of the narrative possibilities rather than any working out of your own issues?

Barry: Well, they can’t be pulled apart necessarily. I’m not trying to work on the tough stuff of my life, but the tough stuff of my life gets worked on. Depression is a big problem for me. I’ve always struggled with it, and the things that helped me from the time I was little were reading, drawing, stories, movies, songs. I remember seeing coal plants driving in the country late at night and flames coming out. It looks like a castle when you’re a kid! It’s just an alive way of being in the world, and learning how to access that — I did have a rough childhood. But you don’t need to. I have students who will tell me: “My life’s been good. My parents are so nice. I don’t have anything to write about.” Yes, you do.

You never wanted children of your own?

Barry: No, I never did.

Why not?

Barry: I wondered that too! I love kids, and I am the ultimate godmother, but I never had fantasies about it. Some people need it. I never did. I feel like my life, that curve from when you’re a little kid and then you grow up — the pandemic introduced something that I had always fantasized about from the time I was little, which was being marooned. I would mourn the fact that I was never going to experience that.

Then the pandemic happened, and as awful as it was, I got to do that. I got to make a pretend train compartment on my couch, and I decided I was going to read all of Dickens on it. I rode that train by myself for months. It was fantastic! I feel like something happened to me then. I felt — not like a kid again, but I surely wasn’t in my 60s. I didn’t feel young. I felt out of time. I still feel that way.

I’m not quite following. Are you saying you didn’t want to have kids because you wanted to protect your solitude and your imaginative time?

Barry: My answer was garbled and not answering your question at all! Maybe I was trying to say that I am still that kid. Or maybe I didn’t want to turn into a mom. That makes more sense. My mom was incredibly problematic. The terror that I would become her and do to my kids what she did to us? Or the terror that I might give birth to her. Can you imagine? Coming out: “Recognize me?” Ahhhh! It’s like a bad science-fiction movie.

Earlier you said depression was a big problem for you. Does finding ways to be creative still help you deal with it?

Barry: Absolutely, and that’s been true from the beginning of my life. We’re born into a world that’s full of stories and characters that are right there for us. God, “Grimms’ Fairy Tales” saved my ass. It’s the impulse to seek those things and then, because you’re seeking them when you’re a kid, the impulse to make them. Yeah, I’ve always had trouble with depression. Part of it is a difficult childhood, part of it is probably my nature.

I’ve found that engaging in this kind of work — anything that adults call art and that kids might call a toy; that contains something alive — seems to make me feel that life is worth living. It’s a thing I always say to my students: Art is a public-health concern because it keeps you from killing yourself and others. [Laughs.]

It’s not going to work for everyone. I’ve thought about that person we imagined who might look down on adults playing, and the truth is the person I thought of was Trump and how much he loves the song “Memory” from “Cats.” Apparently when he was losing his mind one of his staff would put it on. That blows my mind. That guy, who I think is outside the human sphere a little bit — still, “Cats” can get to him. But I don’t think art has any saving qualities for people who don’t need it. It’s like, some people can’t digest milk, you know? But a lot of people can.

This interview has been edited and condensed from two conversations.

Come on, guys, this is making things too easy for the Scout.  

The skill of writing is being lost.  The Blue Cards I see are sad examples of hen scratching. 

When the SM gives "permission" (if that is the right term now),  give the Scout the blank card. He/she and the MBCounselor can fill out and sign as appropriate.  If I get a Scout that can fulfill the requirements first time out, , I mark it as such and sign it.  If it must be a "partial", I note the sections passed only., and make sure they have my contact info to get together to complete it at a later date.  .. 

Hang the code and hang the rules! They're more like guidelines, anyway......

Stepping Out

I’m,,,, puttin’ on my necker,

                Slippin’ up my woggle,

                                Puttin’ on my BEADS !

I’m,,,,  polishin’ my hike stave,

                Slippin’on my OA sash,

                                Puttin’ on my BEADS !

I’m stepping out tonight to a Court of Honor

                That simply reeks of class….

And when those Scouts and Scouters come by to see me

                I’ll let ‘em walk on past…

‘Cause I’m here tonight,  watching all the Scouts get,,,,

                All the ranks and Merits,

                                Doing where Scouting LEADS !

PUTTIN’  ON THE BEEEEEEEADS

If you’re blue and you don’t know where to go to,

Why don’t  you go where Scouting leads,

“PUTTIN” ON THE BEEEEEADS!”

Dressed up  like a new born Baden-Powell,

Hiking with a stave and not big dowel.

Here at Gilwell….

Come let’s feed where Ernie Seton did good deeds

And old Bill  Hillcourt  taught “Boy Leads” ,,,,

“”PUTTIN” ON THE BEEEEEEADS!”

Waaaay back in Paleo Scout days, I had two , no three Den Mothers .  My mom, in our newly rebuilt rec room in the basement  and our across the street neighbor, an old farm family with a hundred year plus old house, we met in their "usual" parlor, we would've called it a "living room" (our house had that). The "polite" parlor, all the furniture had clear plastic fitted covers.  Webelos Den (after Lion !) we had (I say "we",  because just about the same bunch of kids went thru Cubs together) a mom whose husband was a scientist/diplomat. He was overseas alot, their house, we met in their BIG kitchen. When that dad was home, he acted as our Pack Cubmaster, often. Back then, I don't think I paid much attention to the Pack Organizational Adult Leader Chart. O mostly remember building stuff, going special places, playing softball (we had a Cub Scout Softball league !), and hanging out with my friends, "on purpose". 

As a nascent Den Leader, I think you could do alot worse by aiming for  similar goals....

Welcome to the virtual campfire...

On 8/14/2022 at 5:56 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

We just finished a week-long cycling trek on the Great Allegheny Passage...Pittsburgh, PA to Cumberland, MD.  Started from Camp Guyasuta ( @qwazse stomping ground).  Eleven Scouts (14 and up) and four adults,    Including fuel and tolls, and some donated MREs for two of our meals, and we hit $152 per person (Scouts spent a bit more for their lunch on the drive out, and ice cream stops along the trail!!!) Free camping in a few places along the trail.  Camping also at Ohiopyle State Park, Corps of Engineers campground in Confluence, PA,  and the YMCA in Cumberland, MD, at the end. (although I'd recommend finding an alternative to that one.)  We logged 168 miles total,  used a SAG Wagon. Great trip, and, with two local shakedown rides to prep, all riding requirements for Cycling MB complete.  50-miler award and NPS Resource Stewardship Scout Ranger opportunities also. Seven days (including travel days on front and back) total, six nights camping, five days cycling.

Doing your own adventures is far more Thrifty!

DATS WAD HEM TAWKIN BOUT  ! !  

Wonderful.....   The GAP is a made for this trail.   Mostly old railroad bed. 90% downhill or level all the way.   Wished I'd had the time to join you....

7 hours ago, MikeS72 said:

Based on his descriptions I would venture to say that VFC stands for Volunteer Fire Company.

Yep. Volunteer Fire Company.  Around here, "department"  implies the professional type/part.   

All Scouting is local...

Home Pack UMC chartered had to fold for lack of adult leadership during Pandemic.  UMC held charter until.... Folks working to recruit and reconstitute the Pack with the NEW Charter, see below.... 

Home Troop(s)  UMC chartered heard the news and went looking for a new charter holder. Very Scout friendly UMC pastor said , sorry, but I have to follow the church instructions. Troop can still park trailer, etc. until you find your new home .  almost 70 years of history and wall plaques....

Troop(s)  found a new home in the VFC.  VFPresident was a Scout from the Troop !  This Commisher helped, might could create  Venture Crew specializing in EMS .  Details of storage, room useage , COR etc. being worked out.... 

The local County professional F&R service is very good, a cooperative hybrid thing with the many VFC around the county.  All the volunteers must meet the same training and certs as the pros. 

By all means, have that discussion. Your Troop will never be the same after a self created adventure like that. The community created, the Patrol Method at work (if you let it)...

Waaay back in Paleo Scout days, I joined a Troop that had alot of WW2 and Korean army vet parents.  I did not make this connection until much later, but that is where they had been. The parents were of every type, bank accountants, farmers,  telephone pole workers, fed gov researchers, one dad became a embassy adjutant in Budapest. 

Somebody's brother's cousin had some property near Germantown MD, and the Troop started camping there. It was , as I remember it, just about ideal.  At the end of a long dirt road, we had to hike in about a quarter mile.  They (they!)  found a running spring, it drained into a far sized creek. The spring was capped,  a pipe installed ( I assume it was tested OK ), and voila, we had water.  We Scouts cleared some Patrol campsites (Totin' Chip  !) , two on each side of the creek. Later, it was decided we needed a summer camp (!!), so a privy/latrine was dug and built, and a three sided Adirondack  cabin was built into the side of a hill for "headquarters" . The logs were dragged in by Mr. Atwell's Jeep, he was the telephone lineman, and heck, the phone company had lots of old poles, right?  (so THAT'S how they notched and locked the logs in place for cabins !).  The older Scouts set the pace, did much of the heavy lifting, so to speak, we younger Scouts tried hard to match their example. 

"The Property" slowly became "Camp Freedom".  Several weeklong summer camps were organized and held. Canvas tents were bought and erected  (BSA Camper and Baker tents were favorites).  Tables and benches were built. Canvas dining flies erected.    We built cooking fire pits, rocks from the creek.. We had a grove (?) of dead American Chestnut nearby that provided the best firewood. Chestnut burns with a blue hot flame, did you know?   Mr McDaniels became our Quartermaster, in the cabin,  he doled out the food, menus were fairly standard.  Refrigeration?  Wood box in the creek, always at about 50 degrees.  Activities?  Easy. Hiking trails, nature exhibits, pioneering lashing stuff that was USED, not merely demonstrated. About the only thing we didn't have was a swim pool, but field trips were taken to local private pools that were known.   

When I "grew up",  the Troop was still using Camp Freedom, and also going off to Philmont and Camp Roosevelt on the Chesapeake Bay. 

Camp Roosevelt is now partially Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Power Plant and a State Park.  Some of it may be a subdivision.   "The Property" , Camp Freedom was sold, it is now a church retreat center and homes....    Sic Gloria Mundi..... 

The important thing is INCLUDE THE SCOUTS IN THE PLANNING.  DO NOT just give them a fait accompli plan.  

Some time ago,  (I was an adult then)  I remember seeing a tv ad (and I have not been able to find it online/youtube/etc. ..so much for everything being online).  The ad had three middle school age kids "hanging out". I think they were on bikes...   One says  something like " hey, I made level 18 in <video game XYZQ>  this summer. Pretty cool." Kid #2 says, "Yeah, I got to hang out at my mom and dad's pool".   Kid #3 says  "I hiked and camped  90 miles in the New Mexico mountains. "  Other kids turn and look wistfully at #3.... Cut to scenes at Philmont, ""BSA.  Adventure awaits.""   

At least that's what I remember..... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKie47V2lLY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JylE5nHRUA

Yep.  I agree  with everything you note.   

All Scouting is Local, after all, but that does not mean thatthe local Council and Nashunal shouldn't be putting stuff out on TV, , Facebook, etc.  

If nameless couples can get traction telling stupid jokes, why can't various Scout folks do various videos. Even recycling oldies but goodies :  

Who Will Buy ?

THIN MINTS ! SAMOAS !! LEMONOES !!!

""""Who will buy this wonderful gluten?

Such a cookie you never did see

Who will wrap it up in mylar?

And put it in a box for me

So I could eat it at my leisure

Whenever things go wrong

Or try to keep it in my freezer

To last my whole life long ?

Who will buy this old Girl Scout Cookie??

It's so good, my glucose is high,

Me oh my, I guess I won't eat it,

So what am I to do

 to keep this box so blue?

There must some place it can hide ? ? ?