shortridge

"May not allow" may be confusing. But the next sentence spells it out - smoking is OK only in designated areas. No smoking in front of the kids. Simple enough for the OP's question. "All Scouting functions, meetings, and activities should be conducted on a smoke-free basis, with smoking areas located away from all participants."

Since his membership/dues lapsed, I think the correct term to use (and the proper form to ask for) would be "reinstatement," rather than "transfer." My lodge has a separate reinstatement form which asks for as much information about the circumstances of your induction as you can provide (date, location, lodge, etc.). If the person has any questions, call the council office and ask to be referred to the lodge adviser (a volunteer) or lodge staff adviser (a professional Scouter who represents the Scout Executive). They'll be able to help you out.

Mike F. mentioned written and signed job contracts with detailed expectations as one way to make sure Scouts carry out the responsibilities of a POR. How many other troops on here do that? I hope this doesn't come across as criticism ... but to me, it sounds awfully legalistic, not to mention boring. It seems to me that such a system would detract from the organic, constructive relationship between a PL and his Patrol, or the SPL and the troop officers. It also makes the Scout think in terms of just getting by and fulfilling the minimum requirements, instead of taking initiative, exercising creativity and dreaming big about what he *could* do. Whatever happened to the SPL simply telling the PLC and his other leaders - "You will attend every troop and patrol meeting, and come to every outing. If you can't, it is your job to find someone to back you up. OK, that's the basics. Let's talk individually over the course of this campout about your new job and what you want to do." Are there positives that troops with POR contracts have encountered that I'm just not thinking about?

Tang is definitely still out there - reformulated since the olden days, but still available. Kraft Foods site: http://bit.ly/bCUdWf I think CA_Scouter won the thriftiness competition.

Add duct tape and sanitary napkins. The former is good for securing splints and bandages in a pinch, and the latter are exceedingly absorbent for pressure on bleeding wounds.

Good job on keeping an eye on things and working on a backup plan. You're a very conscientious Scouter! FWIW, this was the older thread ... http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=275366 As an alternative, if the forecast is lousy and you do cancel, you might decide to let folks know that if the weather miraculously turns out OK, that some people will be gathering for a low-key daytime event at the same location - a pack hike, an I-spy nature walk, etc.

Just food for thought, stirring the pot ... I'd also hypothesize that the anecdotal apparent prevalence of parents on campouts these days may also be tied to the growing distrust or increasing wariness of adults who work closely with children. The sex abuse scandals within the Catholic Church and Scouting have certainly contributed to that fear. Parents want to "check things out" first-hand before letting their kids go off out of their sight under the supervision of other adults for extended periods of time - let alone for a whole weekend, two overnights, several hours away from home! They want to examine the equipment, the first-aid situation, study up-close the training, demeanor, style and skill of the adults in charge. And I don't think that's an unreasonable concern.

"It just seemed that his whole scouting experience (so far) is a big blur! He has attended summer camp, at least 5 campouts, several hiking trips and yet, the activities that he most enjoyed were the ones that were more recent in his mind!" That's not at all uncommon with kids of that age, especially if they're lower on the maturity scale. Out of sight, out of mind. I would caution you not to transfer your disagreements with the father's approach onto the son. At age 12, he certainly doesn't know any better if what's being modeled for him is flawed.

Don't forget to talk with your local Scoutmaster about den chiefs!

I seriously doubt that many beneficiaries would insist that the completed project site be maintained in perpetuity. For starters, it's not very good manners! Does the local Little League demand that the construction company that put up the concession stand building for free also provide free upkeep over the years? No, it thanks the company profusely for its help and takes over ownership. Ditto for the local library where a landscaping company puts in a garden and small paved walking path. No legitimate nonprofit or community group worth its salt would think of demanding such a thing of someone who wants to help. This urban legend - or illegal local rule, whatever it is - also unfortunately reinforces the common misconception that an Eagle project must involve building something. It doesn't.

And that might be a good idea, if it was the PLC's. A six-month "term of office" is completely arbitrary. But it shouldn't come from an adult.

I know you didn't ask about this, but I'd focus more on the Scout side of the equation. With 14 Scouts, you barely have enough to make full functioning patrols, at 7 Scouts per. What happens if two from each patrol don't make it? The appropriate number of adults depends largely on three things: 1. The relationships of the Scouts to the adults. Are they mostly parents tagging along to see how Junior is doing? Do they see a troop or patrol campout as a replacement for a father-son or mother-son bonding time? If the answer to either of those is yes, then you may have a problem. Make sure the adults know the score and how to behave. One way that can be acomplished is through ... 2. Training. What's the training level of these adults? Have they at least completed the basic online stuff, including YPT? Consider requiring those as a baseline for adult participation. The other factor to consider, of course, is ... 3. Youth experience levels. Moving from one patrol to two suggests that you've added a bunch of Scouts in a short period of time. Were they rising Webelos? Do they have Scouting experience before? What drew them to your troop? Are they 11-year-old newbies with no background in camping, more susceptible to being dominated by well-meaning parents? Or are they older Scouts who can politely tell a well-meaning adult to mind his or her own business? An addendum to No. 1: You may still have a problem if the adults aren't parents. And I don't mean to suggest that all parents cause problems. Issues can certainly arise from the involvement of child-less volunteers who don't understand how Scouting is supposed to work, or who view an expedition as a personal vacation. If everyone knows the role they're supposed to play, problems can be greatly minimized.

Patrol member No. 8 is the Invisible Girl.

emb021, I was partly being faecetious in my comment. Of course I know that Eagle and Ranger are not parallel awards. Venturing is an entirely different animal. But in my opinion, an Eagle Scout *should* be an expert outdoorsman, rightly confident of his abilities in the backcountry and frontcountry alike. We hear every day in this forum of Eagles who can't tie knots, build fires, cook meals. Saying that someone can be a "top Boy Scout" without being an expert in the outdoors is acknowledging that parlor Scouting has won. And I refuse to agree with that.

"... had another leader who is a Committee Member sign off on the Scoutmaster Conference and Scout spirit for the ranks." The Scoutmaster Conference is called that for a reason: The Scoutmaster or his/her designee is supposed to do it, not just any old adult. If the TC member did this without the SM's approval, then it's clearly invalid. From that, and other things you've said, it sounds like the Scoutmaster is OK with how this parent is running things. And with no CO to appeal to except the old-guard adults themselves, that's all that matters. I'd advise searching out another troop with your son. You're not going to change this group.

The Camping one looks kind of sad compared to the others. 25 days/nights could easily be snagged in a year of plop & drop car camping. But the others seem to require real effort - 100 miles hiking or backpacking is nothing to sneeze at. I'm loving 8b for the medal - "Successfully complete a season on a council summer camp staff in an outdoor area, such as aquatics, Scoutcraft, nature/environment, climbing, or COPE." Sweet!

- In talking with local alumni or past leaders, consider doing formal oral history interviews. Record them with an audio or video recorder, edit them and put them online or incorporate them into a slideshow or video. - Develop a troop history timeline running parallel with the history of Scouting in general. - Contact the Council offices and set up an appointment to review old charters and rosters to get a sense of how the troop grew and shrunk over the years. Create a "history wall" or book with the names of all Scouts and leaders, past and present.

"The impression I got was they developed this award system to give the Boy Scouts parity with the Venturers's Ranger Award." And here I always thought that was called Eagle...

"The impression I got was they developed this award system to give the Boy Scouts parity with the Venturers's Ranger Award." And here I always thought that was called Eagle...

"The church appoints all the leaders ..." - well, yes, that's how Scouting works. The CO, whether it's a church or Joe's Bait Shop, appoints the adult leadership. Do we require any other COs to appoint commissioners for their units? "... and should appoint the unit commissioners also." I thought the role of a commissioner was supposed to be that of a largely outside observer who can offer help and support - not someone necessarily appointed by the CO. An outsider viewpoint is often VERY helpful.

Swimming is as much a team sport as tennis, table tennis or cross-country. In fact, a track relay race is more of a team sport than any of those. I'd count it.

"It seems to me that everybody assumes a parent who posts on this board, a parent who talks to the SM, a parent who makes sure the MB info gets turned in to council, or a parent who drives his kid to his scout meetings is a Helicopter Parent." Clearly, none of those things a Helicopter Parent makes. My definition of an HP is the same as my definition of a fundamentally incompetent unit-serving Scouter -- someone who does something that a Scout could do himself. But that's easier said than done, sometimes. A Second Class Scout, might need a little reminding or prompting. But anyone First Class or above shouldn't. That said, some things in Scouting are best handled on an adult-to-adult basis - communicating with Council or District, for example. Those structures aren't set up to deal with Scout-to-adult communication. But troops and patrols are. If there's a parent tying knots for his or her son, or a Scoutmaster unilaterally deciding where a troop is going to go on the next campout - those are both program areas that dramatically need improvement.

"So this scout was stuck at 9 troop activities during a two month period where the troop didn't have any other non-camping special activities." That's one of the screwiest things I've ever heard of! Yes, your reading is absolutely correct. I'd also point out that it can be troop/patrol activities - so if a Scout is stuck at 9 by a moronic Scoutmaster, his patrol can do something on its own (with the SM's clearance).

I'm a little confused. After reading your original post, I thought that the boys were in the troop in Utah, moved to your area, transferred to your troop, then spent part of the summer back in Utah with their old troop. Is that right? Or are they brand-new Scouts who joined two troops in two different councils simultaneously because they're going to be spending large amounts of time in Utah and want to remain active in Scouting? If that's the case, I think a courtesy phone call to the other SM would be in order, just to make sure you both are on the same page about handling advancement, MBs, etc. You can ask for some info on what the boys did this summer with his troop, just to see the types of programs and events they've experienced already - you don't want to have things be boring for them, after all. I didn't even think it was quote-legal-unquote to be dual-registered in two troops, but I'm not an expert. Bottom line is it shouldn't matter if they were in a troop chartered to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints or in a troop chartered to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Pencil-whipping is pencil-whipping no matter who does it.

Do the boys know their stuff? Can they cook? Tie knots? Start fires? Pitch a tent? Pack a pack? Use a knife safely? Do first aid properly? If so, what's the problem? Perhaps their apparent lack of motivation when in your troop was due to the fact they've only been members a couple months and hadn't found their rhythm yet. Or perhaps due to the fact that they knew they were going to be returning to Utah with their old buddies and in surroundings with which they were much more comfortable. They didn't have to work hard with you because they knew they were going to do the same stuff back home.(This message has been edited by shortridge)