shortridge

41 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

All you are talking about is advancing. Why? 

Because that’s the subject of this thread?

10 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Ah, we must be talking about your troop.

No, we’re talking about all the new troops for girls who are motivated to move quickly through the advancement process and whom you are trying to gatekeep by raising questions about their leaders’ experience.

You have no idea what any of these new troops is doing. You have no idea about the experience of their leaders. You have no idea about the experience of their Scouts.

10 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

New scouts want to learn how to set up a tent and start a fire. Can they fish at the lake? What is this KP stuff?

Many of these girls are new Scouts but not new to Scouting or the outdoors or adventure. A Venturer and camp staff member who has run a first-year camper program at Boy Scout resident camp doesn’t need to learn how to set up a tent or start a fire or fish or make a duty roster. They will be racing through the requirements because they can do them with both hands tying one-handed bowlines behind their back.

19 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

This unit could be led by experienced adults who know how to blow past this part, or inexperienced adults who are trying to rush forward. How much experience do these adults have?

Thanks for your concern, but every new adult leader of a new Scouts BSA troop for girls has the same experience that every new adult leader of a Scouts BSA troop for boys had at one point. If they have none, they have access to the same resources and will learn.

Many units are also being led by highly experienced Scouters who have been SMs and ASMs with boys’ troops, taken all the training, gone to Wood Badge, etc.

Let’s not start gatekeeping here for these Scouts based on their leaders’ experience. It’s been demonstrated that they can fulfill the requirements in a minimal amount of time by doing a maximum amount of preparation and work. 

5 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

but with the GSUSA is currently suing Scouts BSA over this, we need to be careful. Thanks.

Lawsuit aside, also just because we want to give these Scouts the respect they’re due by referring to their program properly. It would be like calling an American Legion post the VFW. Or the Democrats the Republicans.

18 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

There is the requirement (#2) of "After Attending".  As the rank is to be earned after they joined Scouts BSA, not sure how that would be handled.  One could prep all the others, but that one specifically indicates after.

You hold the first meeting, take care of everything else, have closing, then have the SM and ASM stay after to sign off on those requirements.

This update was shared on Facebook by the Great Salt Lake Council (as of Friday, 2/8). Many new units are still having their paperwork processed and are not showing up in this first week total:

———————

Today, councils received the first ever Scouts BSA membership report. Nationwide, since February 1:
56 new Scouts BSA boy troops
608 new Scouts BSA girl troops
4,353 new Scouts BSA youth members (boys and girls)
Many more new troops chartering every day!
#scoutmein

1 hour ago, Ranman328 said:

a new Girl Scout Unit

This is not a Girl Scout unit we are talking about. This is a Scouts BSA troop. Accurate language is important. Thanks!

Have you read the requirements for the Scout rank recently? It’s a joining patch. There is nothing remotely difficult about it. If you have a determined Scout - as all these first-to-join young ladies are - who has done her or his homework, studied up, read their Handbook, and paid attention, then they can absolutely knock the requirements out in an hour or two. The Cyber Chip instructional component and ropework are the most time-consuming, and even those shouldn’t take very long. Remember many of these girls are older and not your typical 11-year-olds.

I will quote myself from a prior thread discussion:

”What a lot of people seem to forget is that we don’t require that a skill or knowledge be learned within the Scouting program. I’m not going to require an experienced backpacker to sit through my demonstration on packing a backpack. If they come to me and show that they know it and can do it, I’ll sign it off.

“Quite a few of these new Scouts have been camping and hiking for years. They have staffed summer camp and run FYC programs - actually teaching the very skills they must now get signed off - and backpacked stretches of the AT.

“T-2-FC is outdoors 101. They must still demonstrate that they can do it - but actually doing it is child’s play.

“Some of these new patrols and troops have been meeting informally for months and learning these skills on their own.  Not because they want to be “first,” but because they want to be Scouts.

“Unless you were there watching an adult pencil-whip Scouts through the requirements without actually doing them, let’s behave a little more Scoutlike toward our fellow Scouts and not accuse them of cheating, hmm?”

The Jan. 28 update confirms this:

>> “The existing inventory of tan shirts, with “BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA” in red over the right pocket, will be available until they’re all sold out.”

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2019/01/18/details-on-scouts-bsa-uniform-handbook-availability-in-advance-of-feb-1-launch/

I’ve heard tell that it would be a simple matter for someone with an embroidery machine to take an old uniform shirt and create FDL/BSA strips that could be sewn onto the BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA shirts to cover up that language. I have no idea if that’s accurate or not.

Unfortunately for girls, the uniforms that have shipped and are on sale are for Cub-sized girls. Lord knows why, because except for Webelos, Cubs don’t wear tan. The vast majority of Scouts BSA female youth are going to be wearing ladies’ sizes ... which have been held up. I bought my daughter an old-style shirt over the weekend because I’m not waiting any more on Supply to get its act together.

18 hours ago, Treflienne said:

We've been off on a tangent.  Back to the orginal topic:  anybody have any experience, good or bad, with the poly/rayon/wool shirts,  whether long-sleeve or short-sleeve?

I don’t, but there are some prior threads about the differences here. I believe the consensus was that the poly/wool was bear suited for formal occasions and not super best for outdoor or activewear.

I’ve never seen those shorts before! That’s cool.

I’ve been using eBay recently to recover some local camp patches that I’ve lost over time. I netted a few from the early days of the camp before I was born, which is neat, and recently won a neckerchief with a map of the camp printed on it. In 25+ years, I’d never heard tell of such a necker so I’m looking forward to getting my hands on it.

I’ve also found that one trick to survival is having them delivered to your work rather than to your house so one’s spouse doesn’t say with a sigh, “You’ve got ANOTHER of your patches in the mail again ...”

2 hours ago, Treflienne said:

I've seen the boys doing this.   It looks sloppy. 

I’ve never once owned a LS Scout shirt. I think they look ridiculous when sleeves are worn down, and the long sleeves rolled up for summer looks even sillier. It’s really not a multifunctional shirt in that respect.

Wearing a long sleeved shirt under a SS uniform shirt is absolutely the way to go as long as the colors are cordinated - all green or all red or all navy blue, for example, matching the troop colors.

6 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

They get cyber chip, comparing the cost of items at three locations, and having to explain utilities to their house. 

Heck, I’m not sure if I can explain how utilities work to my house.

1 hour ago, John-in-KC said:

Pardon me for being foolish, but will there be control groups of non Scouts and Scouters, or is this yet another RAH RAH SCOUTING disguised as an attempt at a rigorous study?

This sounds like an internal review of training and other programs. I’m not sure what non-Scout people would contribute.

I was in an SM Specific training last year with two researchers from Montclair, one of the partners, sitting in to observe and ask questions. They were doing the same with a series of trainings around the region and had even taken Wood Badge.

Interestingly, they were both registered with the BSA and wearing the field uniform, I presume to better blend in and not skew the group dynamics. Unfortunately, I was the only “normal Scouter” aside from the trainer who showed up to the training. Three people ditched the day before. I guess they learned something from that, if not exactly what they were aiming for ...

Even if the Scouter were correct and BSA was a sectarian organization that required reading of the Christian Scriptures, wouldn’t it be properly punctuated as “the written Word”?

1 hour ago, PACAN said:

Yes.  My thought is that Seems unlikely that the requirements done "since a scout" could have been correctly done in a couple of hours after midnight since the cyberchip requires a little more effort.  

I heard that units finished all but the PT 30 day requirements for Tenderfoot on their Saturday campout.  Yeech!

1. The only part of the Cyber Chip that requires any effort is the teaching requirement. The Chip is a good tool to get kids and parents talking about safety, but it’s a joke to earn.

2. Why wouldn’t an enthusiastic Scout who has read the Handbook and practiced in advance be able to knock off all the Tenderfoot requirements during the course of a weekend campout? Here are the requirements: https://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Tenderfoot_rank. The most time-consuming parts are woods tools and the service project. 

What a lot of people seem to forget is that we don’t require that a skill or knowledge be learned within the Scouting program. I’m not going to require an experienced backpacker to sit through my demonstration on packing a backpack. If they come to me and show that they know it and can do it, I’ll sign it off.

Quite a few of these new Scouts have been camping and hiking for years. They have staffed summer camp and run FYC programs - actually teaching the very skills they must now get signed off - and backpacked stretches of the AT.

T-2-FC is outdoors 101. They must still demonstrate that they can do it - but actually doing it is child’s play.

Some of these new patrols and troops have been meeting informally for months and learning these skills on their own.  Not because they want to be “first,” but because they want to be Scouts.

Unless you were there watching an adult pencil-whip Scouts through the requirements without actually doing them, let’s behave a little more Scoutlike toward our fellow Scouts and not accuse them of cheating, hmm?

11 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

My one hope is that all these new leaders take high quality IOLS training in person from experienced scouters and not just watch it online.

 

IOLS isn’t online.

On 2/1/2019 at 6:07 PM, PACAN said:

And here we go. TV bit tonight about a girl troop who were inducted into Scouts BSA in the dark and all had already earned their Scout Badge. All before they went to school. The one girl was a teenager so clearly wasn't a Cub.  Not sure how the Cyber Chip could be earned in the dark. 

Scout rank can be earned in about two hours - or less - by someone who knows their stuff. The only time requirement is that you have to describe some things after attending a troop meeting. Pretty simple.

And there’s nothing in the Cyber Chip requirements that necessitates doing it in the day. You can watch the videos in the dark.

58 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

I'm reluctant to suggest no-cook options because there are always lots of boys who need to cook meals for rank requirements and/or Cooking merit badge.  I'm kind of old school, so I'd rather see a boy "cook" to earn his sign-offs for these.

But for an experienced patrol backpacking, it’s a great challenge.

Also freezer-bag cooking and no-cook menus are always options!

2 hours ago, ShutterbugMom said:

Many aspects of the world in general nowadays seem to think that white males, including boys, are the enemy.  And I tell you I did have to report it to the school when these little middle school girls who think they are high and mighty (again just a select few) told my son they wanted to cut line (while playing a game) and he said "No, I was in line in front of you."  The girl and her friends replied "You have to let her, because you know about "Ladies First."  He said "No, I don't.  We are playing a game and we are equal." and he held his hands out to keep them from going around him and some of the little girls said "You can't do that!!  You are HARASSSING her!"  Yep.  Had to contact the teacher about that.  But there is a certain subset of people in this world that blame boys for everything now and I am very tired of it.  It has gotten to the point where boys are allowed to have NOTHING for themselves.  No organizations.  Nothing.  That's just my feeling.  And I truly know not all girls and women are like that.  Actually most are not.  But that small minority are loud and have to have their own way.

I should have been more clear. Who in Scouting?

33 minutes ago, ianwilkins said:

There will be every shade in between.

All points on the scale are allowed under the rules.

As always, the CO and local unit leadership set the program. Nothing new here. There have always been boys’ units that do their own summer camps or don’t go to camporees or put restrictions on what age Scouts can camp. That doesn’t change.

@ShutterbugMom, who is putting down men or boys?

Sounds like a great way to work in search and rescue! The logistics and communication will take a significant amount of planning and prep. You’ll want to make sure each patrol gets assigned to an area or task that has some meat on the bones - so one unlucky group doesn’t just find itself wandering for the day without anything fun happening. Try enlisting your local emergency management agency or CERT group to help. And please let us know how this idea turns out!