shortridge

To answer the original question:

Youth protection and safety rules could be another part of the audit. However, it seems like examining a lot of the topics suggested here depend entirely on the unit's own record-keeping - and if there are questions about its leadership, the records may not be up to snuff to begin with.

If the troop is large enough to have a Web site and troop e-mail accounts, or if the leaders use private, noncommercial dedicated accounts for their Scouting work, those records could also be examined, if permission and passwords are provided. (I can't see a business easily turning over its e-mail records to a stranger because an employee also uses a business account for occasional Scout work.) But it largely depends on the nature of the questions regarding the unit leadership.

On issues raised by others:

* I can think of several good reasons why the CO and DE would like a non-commissioner doing a "Scouting audit." Perhaps the commissioner in this case is part of the problem. Perhaps other commissioners simply don't want to touch the situation with a 10-foot-pole. Perhaps they're all old buddies of the SM. Who knows?

* If I were a COR who brought my CO's concerns about finances and the unit in general to the district leadership for advice, and the DE knew of an experienced Scouter with a finance background, I'd jump at the opportunity to have him tackle both angles at once. (Since I'm assuming the work is being done for free, I'd jump even higher if I represented a nonprofit CO with a limited budget to spend on a conventional CPA-style audit.)

Makes sense to me.

Greetings -

I've come across a few examples of Boy Scout summer resident camps that also offer some type of Venturing program - usually one week, focusing on Ranger award requirements. Has anyone out there attended any such camps? How did they work for your crew? Was the program up to snuff, or did it seem like a poorly adapted "Merit Badge Plus" effort? Were there just Venturing crews there, or Boy Scout troops as well, and how did the two groups mix?

On a secondary level, I'm also wondering about general opinions: Should Venturing crews even avail themselves of a resident camp, or create their own capstone activity? What about a resident camp that offered organized daily programs, but also create-your-own-adventure opportunities?

Not to dump cold water on cheerful service, but the safest thing for tired and weary drivers is to pull over and get some sleep - not load up on coffee. Might be a good teachable moment for young drivers.

I'm taking the hazardous weather course through the E-Learning system, and it is embarassing.

I thought the Venturing YP course was bad enough (what's with the comic book characters?), but this is worse. Stick figures, hard-to-load animations and super-simple questions do not equal good training!

OGE - Why would they wear Boy Scout shorts with a Venturing shirt when there are Venturing shorts available?

(I'm not trying to reignite a past debate, but just understand the logic there. It doesn't seem like there's much.)

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Follow-up question: Who are the advisors of these crews - a senior member of staff, the camp director, ranger, program director?

Any thoughts on use of heater stacks?

In my experience, they're insulated plastic containers that hold hot foods - e.g., taco meat for tacos - that are hauled to each campsite along with the other goods a patrol uses for cooking (taco shells, cheese, sauce, etc.). The patrol does basic prep work, serves, eats, cleans up and takes the heater stacks back to the commissary/kitchen.

Supposedly a time-saver when compared to patrol cooking, but I'm interested in hearing what others have to say.

When I staffed a mid-sized (about 300 campers) resident camp, I'd estimate that most troops had 2-3 patrols. But it was not uncommon to see a troop with enough Scouts for just a single patrol.

Part of the camp challenge these days seems to be squeezing several small troops into campsites made for much larger ones while achieving sufficient separation.

A 60+ Scout troop would have been a novelty - and a treat!

Stress and exhaustion can, howevever, sometimes expose how people really feel - those deep inner thoughts.

Hurrah for your SPL!

I've never encountered racism in Scouts, let alone that sort of language.

Quote: "[W]e will be going out of council next year. That decision was arrived at by the boys, not the adult leaders. They had come to that decision even before we left the camp."

So it sounds like there were other complaints or issues that the Scouts had with the program or camp, beyond the lack of communication? Am I reading that right? If so, did their decision have to do with the lack of support for the patrol method?

Depending on where you live, it can be very tough to find a Red Cross WFA course.

Around where I'm from, the Red Cross standard course is eight hours, including CPR - that's for infant, children and adults, the whole kit & kaboodle. I've been told by a RC WFA instructor that the WFA course is a whole weekend.

There are also private companies and nonprofits - see www.wildmed.com and www.nols.edu/wmi for examples - that offer such courses.

That's really unfortunate that the boys missed out on information because they chose to do patrol cooking. I'm curious - did the leader mention his concerns to the commissioner or camp director, and what was the reaction?

There's a very simple solution to that particular problem: Start a camp newsletter. Nothing fancy, no snazzy graphics or intricate design, just a 8.5x11 B&W sheet with short blurbs about events, activities, changes, meetings, rules, etc. Put it out in the morning or around lunchtime, distributed by commissioners in their daily visits or when boys pick up stored food from the commissary. Just takes a little bit of planning and forethought.

And if something important arises after the newsletter is printed, the commish staff should be on the stick delivering the information to the units. That's a large part of their job. Daily SPL meetings - in the evening or during the "siesta" period after lunch - can also play a key role.

When I worked as a commissioner's staffer, we had to be on the ball with information, schedules, etc. If a leader or Scout asked us a question, we'd better know the answer or get it to them ASAP.

Part of the problem with recruiting den chiefs seems to be that the older Scouts don't want to spend time with the young'uns... they've BT/DT, and it's not cool. So combatting that mindset by exposing Boy Scouts to the Cub atmosphere is crucial.

* Volunteer the services of a troop or patrol as staff at a Cub event - a Cuboree, Cub Adventure Day, chariot race, Pinewood Derby (as previously suggested). Most day camps that I've encountered also need help!

* Have the troop sponsor an event for the Cub pack - bike rodeo, outdoors skills demonstration at an already-planned local campout (so you're not adding something else to the troop schedule), etc.

* Look to Order of the Arrow members - start talking up the folks who've already done Arrow of Light ceremonies at B&Gs.

* Bring interested den leaders to a troop meeting to discuss the job and make a direct pitch. It's easier to commit once you've met your prospective partner/mentor face-to-face.

Thanks for the clarification on rank badges.

With regard to patrol medallions, in or around 1972, they went from the red-and-black batches to designs similar to today. In 1989, they lost the yellow/orange/blue/colorful backgrounds, according to the folks at patrolPatch (gilwell.com).

Going back to the original question - is the reason units are using bold/bright colors for troop shirts to pick their members out of a crowd? Or is it just because they look "cool"?

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong - but hasn't "toning down" been a continuing process, not something new with this uniform?

If memory serves, back in the late '80s/early '90s, the Powers That Be khaki'd the rank badges and patrol medallions, changing from much more colorful versions.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

John-in-KC:

In that active crew, do you know if most of the youth reside locally? Are they high school-age or in college?

Thanks -

Hi -

I'd like to hear from others out there who have experience with crews set up by summer camp staff members. How do you keep the crew together during the year? Deal with the inevitable departures? What activities do you do - high-adventure or other activities away from camp, or mainly support and service work on the camp's behalf? Does the Venturing crew run a campmaster crew in the off-season?(This message has been edited by shortridge)

John-in-KC wrote:

I agree with those who question DC to Star, again DC to Life, and again DC to Eagle as their major POR. The Scout may not get a "well-rounded" experience in leadership.

The same concern could be expressed about a Scout who serves in a single POR for 16 months - not unheard of in some units. Leadership of a single patrol is far different than leadership as a senior patrol leader, and does not necessarily result in a well rounded experience. (It should, but not always.)

PORs are not POLs. For better or for worse, the key word is "responsibility," not "leadership." If leadership experience were the objective, scribe, historian, bugler, librarian, etc., wouldn't be included except in large units. (Wouldn't a bugle corps be great?)

It seems the broader question is whether the POR requirements should be changed to require different positions for different ranks - one for Star, another for Life and a third for Eagle.

Not every boy is cut out to be a den chief. Not every den is cut out to have a den chief. If your Scout's experience falls into one of those two categories, then suggest he move into a different position or take a gig with a different den.

If the job is executed properly, a den chief should be running much of the meeting, IMHO. I served as a den chief with two different dens for about five years total, and herding cats is the understatement of the year! The job - again, properly done - involves program planning, adult relationships, discipline, skills instruction and training ... the whole kit 'n' kaboodle that we supposely look for.

When I started working on summer camp staff - half the summer Boy Scouts, half the summer Cubs - my den chief experience gave me an instant edge. You could tell who the former den chiefs were on staff just by looking at how they interacted with the Cubs.

I've heard tell of some troops that encourage first-year Scouts to become den chiefs. Bad, bad decision, IMHO. You need maturity and experience to become a den chief - it's not simply a matter of being a few years older than the Cubs involved.

If you have concerns about your Scout's duties - does the den not do much? is the den leader overbearing? do you hear negative reports that he acts more like one of the Cubs than as a leader? - talk it over with the den leader and Cubmaster. Handle it on a case-by-case basis. But for gosh's sake, don't issue a ridiculous blanket ban.

Would you do the same for a Scout who was elected SPL for three terms in a row? Why or why not?

I'm guessing that a council - if it were really interested in improving CO relationships - could develop a pretty good baseline assessment of the issue simply by studying how many CORs attend district or council meetings.

Seems to me that it splits into two parts. If the CORs don't know that they're supposed to play that role, that's one issue. If they don't care to, that's another entirely.

Good to hear that folks brought weather radios! The late-night wakeup might've been inconvenient, but better safe than sorry.

Alas, one can't prepare for adults failing to use common sense in discussions in earshot of youth.

My daughter (age 4) has latched on to the Berenstain Bear books, and demands new ones at each visit to the local library.

I recently came home with "Bear Scouts," a rhyming tome that pits a Bear Scout patrol hiking on their own against a know-it-all Papa Bear who wants to share his backcountry "knowledge." Papa, of course, is always wrong, to comic effect, and the Scouts - following their Bear Scout Handbook - end up carrying him out of the wilderness, bandaged up on a sled.

In light of this forum discussion, it was a fascinating and oh-so-simple illustration of why adults should keep their paws off.

(Sorry if this is too whimsical for this topic, but I couldn't resist.)(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Greetings -

I'm trying to assemble information on recently-closed or up-for-sale Scout camps. I've found a few scattered examples (big ones including Owasippe, Avery Hand, Onway) but was wondering if anyone knew of a list - even for a starting point - or if we could assemble one here.

I'm mainly looking for camps closed within about the last five years.

Please PM me with any questions. Thanks...

Congratulations to your son - that's one of the best jobs he'll ever have.

Also consider:

* A couple of paperbacks (especially if he's going back to the T.P. at any point).

* Extra laundry detergent (whether the camp provides it or not).

* Stocking-stuffer-type stress-relief items - silly string, water balloons, squirtguns, yoyos.

If your son is interested in doing more on this topic, he might suggest that the troop get Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) training, part of the Citizen Corps program. See www.citizencorps.gov/cert for more info - it specifically mentions Boy and Girl Scouts as potential members.

How thankful they're going to be OK.

And yes, safety should always come before deadlines. A very sobering, cautionary tale.

As a general observation, putting teenagers in a car with a teenage driver dramatically increases the chances of an accident. Tailgating, speeding, no seatbelts, drinking, driving in the evening - all are substantial risk factors for teen drivers, according to the CDC.

I'm a huge advocate of increasing the driving age to 18 - though I know there's no way that could happen politically. Parents can make that decision on their own, though.