sheldonsmom

I think it is much like raising our own children. We have set rules(mandates if you will) for our younger children. As they have grown, we have relaxed or released them to where they are accountable to God and themselves. We have an adult child (oxymoron, I know) living at home while she attends college nearby. The only requirements upon her are to do her assigned household duties and let us know when she is going to be in or out. Our almost adult son is on about the same system but must still ask for final approval. Our 12 year old has many more restrictions upon her behavior and activities.

Shouldn't we treat the scouts the same way. Our NSPs should have guidelines and budgets to help them learn. Our Venture Patrols should have nearly complete autonomity. They will usually live up to your expectations. Not always, but usually. "If you want your children to keep their feet on the ground, put some responsibility on their shoulders" Abigale Van Buren

Where is this place? We would like to go visit. My son is packed and ready to go!

We are having lemon meringue and cherry.

I think you missed the part about the hostility. We have had merit badge counselors refuse to work with homeschooled boys on certain merit badges, require additional work on others.

Venturing is different because the kids are older. It can be just nasty for younger scouts.

We are starting a new troop here for the homeschool community. The reasoning behind it? It can be a totally different culture. When a troop has boys that all attend one school, it is very hard for an "outsider" to mesh. We have also encountered hostility from some scouters about home schooling.

We are also trying to start a deaf unit. We have a large state school for the deaf here and they are large enough to fill at least one troop, maybe two.

My son was a 16 year old Eagle and his troop's attitude was "here's your hat, what's your hurry?"

They assumed that, since he was an Eagle, he was done with scouting, nothing more to do. He wanted to stay active. We ended up moving to another troop so he could stay active. He just helped us start another new troop (among the very untapped homeschool groups locally). I think he has done more since he made Eagle than he did all the years before.

Troops do themselves great harm when they marginalize Eagles.

Our council wants 10 boys and 5 adults to charter.

Thanks, Beavah,

It was a curiosity thing. I am not sure what I would have classified the shelter as either.

Happy April Fool's Day

As the mother of one of the scouts from Little Sioux, we are still a bit paranoid about weather here but my son still goes camping with the troop. He just keeps an eye on the sky at all times. Not real fond of high winds either. Go figure.

Beavah, just out of curiosity, how did they classify the boys from Little Sioux that died? What type of building was the shelter listed as, I mean.

Thanks so much for the great info. We are looking forward to having this family join us and I thank you for the assistance.

I mentioned in another post that we will have a deaf boy joining our pack next week. His father is also deaf (his mother is hearing and will come as an interpreter until we are up to speed). We are very excited to have him join us but are wondering if there are any good suggestions about camping, hiking, etc. that any of you good scouters can offer. He is a Webelo 1 and was actively recruited by four of our scouts who are learning ASL.

Finally looked up where Camache is. I am on the opposite end of the state. Come on by and see us in Council Bluffs some time.

That was our reasoning with using SPL and ASPL. Our ASPL works with the positions (scribe, historian, and quartermaster) while the SPL does all the planning with input from all the boys. It is just a bit more of semantics than anything else, but if a boy functioning as an ASPL he should get credit for it. The fathers are all present but hands off. The boys are preparing for an upcoming challenge: one of the W1's is deaf and our boys are all learning sign language to communicate with him. He was invited to join our pack (same CO as the troop) by 4 of the boys. (Who gets the recruiter patch?)

We are in a similar boat here. We just started in January with 6 boys: 1 Eagle, 1 Life, and four new to scouting. We are expecting 4 or 5 more in the fall (long story). We have an SPL and an ASPL. Our Eagle will age out in September and I am not to sure about our ASPL. Great follower but not quite ready to lead. Amazing group of guys though.

I agree, and am considering the source but I couldn't let him make that last comment a joke. We will not change the other's mind on the topic. I just wish once someone would honestly debate a topic and not be provocative for the sake of being provocative. I don't take pedophelia as a joke and am saddened that anyone could.

HOW DARE YOU!!!!! Who are you to claim I am joking???? It did grave harm to my soul and psyche to view that filth. I had problems sleeping after reading that. I am very grateful that my son was not reading over my shoulder when that popped up. He reads these forums to learn from those who have experience.

NO ONE should ever be exposed to raw toxin such as that was. I repeat, if you don't like the rules here, take your marbles and go home. When we are in someone else's house as we are on this forum, we play by their rules. My children understand that concept even if you don't.

I asked my son what freedom of speech means. He replied "freedom of speech is open discussion of ideas, freedom to speak out against precieved wrongs at a time and place appropriate." Just for the record, he is 17 and standing at my shoulder now.

I was harmed by what was said. Something was stolen from me in what was written. You said that you did not read it, ergo you were not harmed. I was.

You said "As long as one does not harm another, I think we should be able to say what we wish."

That is a limit on free speech.

This is a forum that has rules. If the rules are not enforced, why have them. The rules are spelled out. I am done with this discussion because we are talking about two separate things.

I believe that we are held to the standard of this community and accept the limitations placed upon me by the same. You, apparently, believe that freedom of speech supersedes those rules. You are free to do believe as you wish. So am I.

I believe there are limits on free speech. Speech that is done solely to offend or cause harm should not be tolerated. You say that this is not about the Constitution but that is what defines free speech. I believe we have a greater responsiblity to protect our children and ourselves. Free thought is allowed. I did not say that the offender should not be allowed to speak but I do believe that it must be in a reasonable time, place and manner. Just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean you should do it. How can we ask our scouts to moderate their speech if we will not moderate speech around them. My point is not that I cannot change threads but that HE has the responsibility to accept the rules here. If he cannot do that, he should not be here. I believe there are natural limits on free speech, even SCOTUS has said that. Do you believe that it is appropriate to use obscene, inflamatory or prejudicial language no matter what the audience? I have chosen this forum as a safe place to air ideas. If the desire is to turn it into a sewer, then I will go elsewhere. But why must those of us who believe in common courtesy be the ones who must limit ourselves. Do you have no self control that you cannot help but spew nonsense? This site is by choice. The rules are clearly stated. If you chose not to follow the rules, then you must leave....not those of use who will abide by the standards set forth by Scouter Terry.

So to clearly answer your questions, I believe that free speech is a right with responsibilities. We must be willing to limit our speech when it is dangerous. Political speech is not what we are addressing here but language that is purposefully inflammatory and degrading. There are natural limits to free speech that has nothing to do with my personal preferences. If one choses to use inappropriate language, one must be willing to accept that sometimes there are consequences. I chose my words carefully. I try not be deliberately offensive; I do not call names; I do not demand that everyone agree with me. But I do ask that others respect me as well. Your free speech ends at my ears. I have the right not to have to listen. The Constitution guarantees the right to free speech. It doesn't require us to listen.

Is it freedom of speech to yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theatre. Is is free speech to use obscene language in the work place? That is a "hostile work environment". That idiot is welcome to say whatever he likes but this is not a reasonable time, place or manner. That is Constitutionally defined free speech.

Aren't you challenging my freedom of speech by critizing my point of view?

Should we let our scouts swim in a pool full of sewage? Why would we disgrace ourselves and our Oath with obscenities? Do we not hold ourselves to a higher standard?

If this site starts finding that level of deviancy acceptable, I will go elsewhere. I choose to stay here because I find the conversations acceptable, i.e. without foul or obscene language. If you would like a place where anyone can say anything to anyone, then feel free to find one.

It goes back to the whole argument of who is a Boy Scout. There are membership requirements (belief in God, etc.) Why are those who want standards the ones who must defend against the "evils" of censorship? I censor everyday. I change channels, decide what book to read, choose what stores to patronize. Once, descriminating taste was a good thing, a compliment. Now it is considered to be beneath scum.

Why is censorship bad? I realize that it relates to who is censoring and why, but a school librarian censors everytime she or he decides not to add Hustler to the magazine rack. A parent censors (I hope) what their children watch. I censor myself from saying what I really feel about some things.

To those of you fortunate enough not to see "THOSE" posts, be grateful. I was sickened by then and needed a shower after viewing. Thanks, Beavah, for your help. Now I know what to do instead of contacting you.

I would guess it will sell for a lot more than I can afford! WOW

"x" never, ever marks the spot.....

Some would think we have nothing better to do!