ScoutNut

Since you do not have the time to commit, and can not support the current SM, I think your decision to step down as an ASM is a wise one.

I get asked to contribute to different causes all of the time.

Every time I go to church they pass the plate.

Schools, public, and private, sell t-shirts, wrapping paper, candy, etc.

There are can drives, penny drives, and phone drives.

My local Public Broadcasting Network is constantly asking for money.

United Way runs massive fundraising drives (and in some companies folks are required to give).

Give us your money, cars, clothes, etc.

Your decision who/what you give your money to is a very personal one.

BSA members, and their families are not required to donate to FOS. They will not be kicked out if they do not write a check for $300, $100, or whatever.

All our FOS person asks is that we return the card with an answer of some kind on it. We can write a check then and there for what ever amount we wish. We can pledge to pay whatever we wish (one family I know pledged 50 cents). We can even put a big, fat, zero, on it. It is OUR INDIVIDUAL choice.

However, tedious I might find the FOS spiel, it is a fundraising effort by an organization that I belong to. I feel that I deserve to be able to make my OWN INDIVIDUAL decision on whether or not I want to give. I would be very upset to have MY decision made FOR me by one or two folks on the unit committee that are pissed at council/FOS.

So, please, no matter how you, personally, feel about FOS/council/professionals, let the folks who are spending their family time to be at your meeting, give their fundraising spiel to your unit. Let your unit families make their own, individual, decision to contribute, or not.

Tent is warmer - definitely!

There is no way you would catch me sleeping in a bunk, in a 3-sided building, in below freezing weather.

>>"why not effective now? Answer, because we need to sell out the old books first">"then we will required all to have a copy of the new book for the next level of advancement."

I agree with doing Readyman.

Talk to the EMT's at the firehouse and have them help.

The boys have all ready done the standard tour, by having them focus on Readyman you give them something new, informative, and FUN to do this time around.

Why wait until next year?

>>"Do you see value in Boys Life? ">"Does your pack make use of Boys Life in their program?">"Does your Pack purchase Boys Life subscriptions for all Scouts when rechartering?"

>>"Hard to drive the pack when your CM doesnt see the need to meet."

In general, the CM deals with the den leaders, and the committee members, to make sure a good BSA program is being delivered.

The CM would interact with the unregistered parents at Pack meetings where he/she is the Master of Ceremonies, and at any Pack-wide activities the CM attends.

Yes, the CM signs youth applications, but that does not necessarily have to be done in front of the family.

Den leaders can (and should) keep track of, and collect forms, payments, applications, etc, from their own den families. There is no reason for families to have to chase down the CM for that.

If a family has questions about program activities, the FIRST person they should consider asking is their den leader. Their den leader should be their main Pack contact person.

It seems like the problem here is that this is a Pack that meets every week at the same time/place, all together. It is like a mini Pack meeting each week with breakout sessions for den meetings. All registered Pack adults, including the CM, are expected to attend every week.

While this works well for some smaller Packs, in this instance, there seems to be some issues. The CM is no longer able to attend every meeting, every week. Not unreasonable in my book, as long as he attends the monthly full Pack meetings. However,if this Pack has mini weekly Pack meetings, and no monthly full blown Pack meeting, that could be contributing to the problem. Most folks who sign up as CM are not committing to a meeting every week.

Another issue that this Pack seems to have is that the CC, and COR, are not recruiting enough volunteers to do the committee work (award/advancement, finances, outings, etc). When you have den leaders taking on ACM, and committee responsibilities, that tells me there is a lack of help.

It also seems that this Pack has no formal monthly Pack Leaders meetings. It is at these meetings, run by the CC, where the program activities for the Pack are worked out. There should be no need for a parent to pit the CM against the committee to get an activity for the Pack. This should be all worked out at the monthly Pack Leaders meeting. Don't blame the CM for the lack of a CC.

It just seems to me that this Pack has more problems than simply a CM who is getting a bit burned out.

>>"ScoutNut, please remind all of the parents in my pack I am a den leader and not a CM. I know the chain of command, but my parents apparently do not. Is it my job to explain it to those parents outside my den? Yes, it is in my opinion."

The Cubmaster (CM) is a problem for the Committee Chair (CC), and the Charter Organization Representative (COR) to solve, not you.

You, Scoutwolf, are a den leader. That is your registered position, and your main job.

Your job is not to second guess why the Cubmaster (CM) is not attending den meetings, or calling every parent whose kid misses a meeting.

Your job is to give YOUR DEN the best program YOU can can possibly give them. Your job is to worry about the families in YOUR DEN.

Let the other den leaders do the same for their dens.

If this happens, then what the CM does, or does not do, will matter very little to the average family.

BTW, if the CM is unavailable, it is the job of the CC to step up/in.

Also, gotta say, private, suburban school, as long as a parent calls in every day to let the school know their child is going to be absent, no one from the school will call to "check up" on the student. Your checking-up has nothing to do with "no child left behind", and everything to do with not trusting the students, or their parents.

If you have a small Pack, and all of the dens meet at the same time/place, I can see the CM attending every meeting, every week. Basically you have weekly Pack meetings that split off into den meetings.

We averaged 35-45 boys in our Pack. Dens met when/where it was convenient for the den leaders, and where they fit into the CO's calendar. We had dens meeting at various different days throughout the week. Most met in the meeting room in the Parish school building, during the evening hours. Some dens met at the den leader's home. My Tiger dens met every Saturday morning in the school meeting room.

The CM only attended a den meeting if he had something specific to discuss with the den as CM, or if he had a child in the den. The CM never attended den outings with the dens.

The CM attended Pack meetings, and Pack-wide activities. He also attended monthly Pack Leader/Committee meetings.

We had an Asst CM who would take over a Pack meeting if the CM could not attend.

Pack activities are run by which ever committee person/parent/leader is in charge of that particular activity. Not the CM.

Purchasing/organizing awards, and managing the Pack management programs, is the job of the Advancement Chair.

Our old CM was not a camper. Not very outdoor oriented at all. He would attend the activities during the day with his sons (if they were interested), and then go home at night. Not a big deal. The BALOO trained leader(s) were the ones running the campouts.

SW, it sounds like your CM is doing many of the activities that should be done by other volunteers, specifically Committee Members.

Your CC should recruit more volunteers from your Pack parents, and the CO, to help spread the work around.

Per the BSA Adult Application, second page, under Approval Required - Unit Scouters :

"The chartered organization representative is approved by the head of the chartered organization."

Since a COR can not approve a COR, he was registered as a MC instead.

Your COR has been trying, unsuccessfully, to get a meeting with your DE for 9 months.

How many District Committee meetings have there been in that time? As a member of the District Committee your COR could have attended, and talked to the DE, informally, there. The COR could also have asked for his issue to be put on the committee agenda. Then it could be handled formally.

If the "incident" with the District volunteer was serious enough, your COR should have gone to the SE after being blown off by the DE once.

Tiger Elective # 11 - Help collect food, clothing or toys for needy families with your den or pack.

Nothing specific for Wolf, or Bear. However parents might fit it in with the Duty to God requirements.

Most Scout Shops carry a Scouting For Food patch. Your Pack might consider purchasing a participation patch for those Scouts that worked the event.

With the cost of uniforms, and how fast boys grow, I think they should be trying to as much wear time out of it as possible!

That said, we have never had your problem. I think that most of our parents likely feel the same as I do. If I am going to shell out that much $$, you are darn sure going to wear the thing.

I have found that if you start them in Tigers, when they are proud of their brand new shiny uniform, with the expectation of wearing it to every meeting/outing, it will carry on to the future years.

Why look for ready made necker slides when you can make your own?

Get a stamp of your favorite cow type, and use it on your preferred material to create your own slides.

You can get leather shapes online ( http://www.ssww.com/search/?v=leather%20shapes&ac_flag=1 ), a steer head leather stamp ( http://www.bonanza.com/listings/Leatherworking-Stamp-Handle8200-Steer-Stamp8226-Craftool-Co-/40698000 ). Punch a few holes, add some cording, and you have a real nifty slide.

If you want to go cheaper still - get a rubber stamp ( http://rubberhedgehog.com/Cattle-Rubber-Stamps.htm ), use a permanent ink pad, and a strip of felt, or cheap fabric, that you can tie in the back, or even a slice of a tree limb with a slice of plastic tubing, or a circle of speaker wire, hot glued to the back. Or, just use a slice of PVC and stamp one side.

First rule of the Tiger den - Adult Partners MUST sit next to their Tiger. They MUST participate WITH their Tiger.

Adults are not allowed to sit in a corner by themselves and simply watch/chat.

This is easy for the den leader to do. Get there early, and set the room up with all of the chairs in pairs. Take out any extras completely. As the Tiger Teams come in direct them where to sit. If the adults try to move their chairs into a corner away from the boys, politely tell them no, to go sit next to their Tiger.

When you do your opening ceremony do not start until everyone is on their feet doing the Scout Sign/Salute/whatever. If the adults are not participating try doing your opening twice. Once with just the adults (so they can "demonstrate the right way") then again with everyone.

You need to get your Adult Partners engaged from the get go. If you let them sit in a corner together, and chat, that will never happen.

One of your main goals as a Tiger den leader is to get both the boys, and the adults, "hooked" on Scouting.

These adults are the future leaders of your Pack!

While a SM does need to know that the Troop's program can be financed, unit finances are not his job to oversee.

A SM's job is the Scouts, and their program.

Unit finances, and doing all of the behind the scene stuff that supports the unit's program, is the job of the Committee Chair.

Any "discussion" with the Treasurer should include the Committee Chair.

BTW - Why is the Troop paying for the Scouts summer camp? The Scouts should be paying for their own campouts (summer or otherwise). If the Scout does not have enough in his Scout account to pay for his summer camp then his parents pay the balance due.

>>"He is CM, SM, COR and CC for both and district activities chair...he works full time as well."

My question would be WHY?

Obviously the Troop's "general expenses" are pretty expensive.

What, exactly, is the Troop paying for? Is the Troop paying for things that should be coming out of the Scout accounts?

Since most of the Troop's fundraising dollars goes to the Scouts, most of the Troops expenses should be paid for by the Scouts also. The Scouts should be paying their own way.

I suggest that you contact your Committee Chair and have a long talk about budgets, Troop finances, and who is paying for what.

Also, just to be clear, the money in the Scout accounts does not belong to the Scouts. They can not "cash out". Scouting is not a money making business for them. ALL money in the Troop accounts belongs to the Troop, and the Troop's Charter Organization, and is to be used for Scouting ONLY.

Since popcorn is not a "national" fundraiser, there is no one way that councils must handle their sale. Every council handles their own fundraising differently. Not every council uses Trail's End for popcorn, heck, not every council sells popcorn.

Our council does not deal with customer checks (and the possibility of bad ones). They require cash, or a unit check, to pay for the unit's popcorn.

They are, however, very lenient in their return policy. We can order, and return, all varieties, by the piece, not case. We routinely have units ordering enough for Show/Sell to cover Take Order as well. The experienced ones end up with very little popcorn to be returned/ordered. Our council Show/Sell return day is also the day to put in Take Orders. Show/Sell returns come in, units pick up what they need to cover Take Orders. Any outstanding orders are what are placed with Trail's End. This works out well for everyone. Units can fill all/most of their Take Order at that time. Council only has to order what is actually needed, and so has a LOT less leftovers sitting around their offices.

I think finding out from the boys themselves why they do not attend specific activities will help you.

As for the high adventure - were the boys ready for the Boundary Waters? Are all of the boys comfortable with their canoeing, and wilderness camping skills?

Did you do any prep outings? There are lots of places a lot closer than the Boundary Waters to get your feet wet (so to speak). Try something close to home first. Have your Scouts take a look at the Kickapoo river in Wisconsin. It is great for beginners, and experienced alike. You can do a day on the river and go back to your campsite at Wildcat Mountain State Park (or other local campgrounds). Or you can do multiple days on the river and camp at sites along the river.

With your son's school, all funds put in the jars (coin or paper) went to a charity.

In your Troop, all money is going into a Scout's pocket.

Big difference.

At school, I would be more than happy to put $5 in another class's jar knowing that it was going to help a charity as well as lower the points of the other class.

In your Troop why should I put my $5 in someone else's Scout account? It doesn't matter a hill of BB's what his points are, I am out $5, and the other Scout is $5 richer.

Checking thru our council calendar for this year it looks like -

Cub Scouts - 5

Boy Scouts - 7

Venturing - 3

Misc - 5

OA - 5

The above does not include youth training or summer camps.

(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

Well, since one of the requirements for both 4a, and 4b, is to "discuss your report with your counselor" that is what I would do. Discuss THEIR (not another Scout's) "homework" with each Scout separately (and privately).

You might want to start with Scout #1.

If Scouts #2-4 comment about Scout #1 "cheating", simply tell them it has been handled, and go on to discuss their work.