ScoutNut

Neither Handyman, or Craftsman, are required badges.

There is no need to repeat them for the 2 boys who did not attend the Webelos Woods. Nor should you "require" the parents do them at home.

Find two other option badges the boys are interested in, and work on those.

If some boys miss out on one of the required badges (Fitness, Readyman, Citizen, Outdoorsman) you can simply do them again in different ways, doing different things to complete the requirements. This goes for requirements at younger levels also. At the Tiger/Wolf/Bear levels I also have greater flexibility. For instance, Tigers are supposed to do a "Go See It" to a sporting event. If need be, I allow watching a game on TV instead of going in person.

With Webelos, for badges that you have the boys do on their own, or for those badges that the boys want to do on their own, remember that you, as den leader, still need to approve their work. I suggest having the boys keep a 3-ring binder with their work in it. Pictures of completed stuff can be included, or if possible, ask them to bring in the things they have made. Have them document their work as completely as possible. Then have them come early, or stay after to go over their work with you.

If you approve an outside source to sign off on some awards, I suggest using the parents as little as possible. Parents can be allowed to sign off on things like Family Member, or Traveler, but use adults outside of the family as much as possible for other badges. Remember, this is preparing the Webelos to do merit badges.

(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

>>"The CORRECT way to do that (in my opinion) is to have boys and adults roast hot dogs over a fire"

There is no way that BSA can enforce their BSA rules on non BSA activities.

As a SM do you think you will be drummed out of Scouting if you are seen talking to one of your next door neighbors kids over the fence while you are both alone, in your separate yards? Do you only allow your kids friends over if they come in pairs?

What might be "inappropriate" inside of Scouting, can be perfectly appropriate, and legal, outside of Scouting.

Tell the pair not to worry about what they do on their own time. As long as they act appropriate to their Scouting roles (adult leader - youth member) while at Scouting activities they will be fine.

>>"He does not attend meetings and he does not contribute time to the Troop activities. He adds nothing constructive that I am aware of, but I must admit I do not know what occurs at the council level and I do not know if the Troop registration is required for his council position.">"Decisions have been made by him that have resulted in negative impacts on the Troop. I have not heard his explanation for the reasons for his choices, so I do not know the nature of his intent. He may have meant well, but it still had a negative impact on the Troop.">"The person in question was a previous TC Chair, two Chairs ago, but has moved on and is now Chair of the Council Activities Committee."

All adult members of the Troop are approved by the Committee Chairman, and the Chartered Organization Representative, or the head of the Charter Organization.

No Troop Committee approval is required by BSA for any Committee member, or any other adult unit volunteer.

Who pays for this person's registration?

If it is the volunteer, then I would let it go. What difference does it make if his primary registration is with the Troop, or the council? How could his continued registration as a committee member be "detrimental" to the Troop when he never participates with the Troop at all?

If it is the Troop, then I suggest calling the individual, and asking him if he would mind if you dropped him from the charter as his volunteering focus is now solely at the council level. If he wants to stay registered with the Troop, request that he pay his own registration fees.

I would do the same for everyone who is on the charter in name only.

We always cooked/ate as a Pack. It helps the folks from different dens to get to know each other. It fosters camaraderie, and is more fun.

Use Kaper Charts, and have small groups (mix your dens, and include adults and youth) do different chores. Even youth that are to young to do any actual cooking, can help with prep, serving, clean-up, etc.

As to how to start your Pack doing group cooking -

Get to know the BALOO leader in charge of planning/running the campouts.

Get on the planning committee.

Convince those folks, and plan/advertise it as Pack meals from the get go.

The YP rule for driving is no one-on-one, not 2-deep.

If you are driving a Scout you are not related to you need another adult, or another youth, in the car with you.

As long as you have your own child in the car with you, you are fine adding any number of other youths.

Yep, it just started that with me too.

The site was hacked. I was attacked every time I tried to open it.

Yes, volunteers do "get something out of" Scouting. That is a known, and documented, fact.

Back in 2003 BSA did a "Volunteer Outcome Study" with Harris Interactive Research. The results boil down to -

"Overall, the findings suggest that volunteering for the Boy Scouts of America has helped people become better citizens, better parents, better managers/supervisors, and better employees."

If you are interested in reading the complete study it can be found here -

http://www.scouting.org/FILESTORE/marketing/pdf/02-658.pdf

However, keep in mind that volunteers in any organization reap rewards from their volunteering. BSA is not unique in that respect.

Welcome to the forums NationalTrailEagle!

As others have state, medical forms should be filled out for every person attending your Pack Family Overnighter. The Pack should already have the forms for all of the Scouts, so all you need is parents, and siblings.

This should have been covered in your BALOO training. Which is also required for a Pack Family Overnighter.

No, men and women are not "the same".

However, generalizing that all women are the same, and all men are the same, is just as wrong, and narrow minded.

Perhaps you need to get out more, and broaden your "experience".

OK, first of all, a slingshot/wrist rocket is WAY different from a toy gun that does nothing.

Your slingshot problem at your Pack derby event is NOT a "toy gun" problem, it was a supervision/behavior problem.

No one, parents, or leaders, were watching the kids. The boys thought shooting things at other kids was acceptable behavior. The kids that were hurt did not trust any of the adults there enough to tell anyone it was happening. You (CM) did not hear about it until a "few days" later (from your own child?).

So you "solve" the problem by banning any and all toy guns/weapons from any Pack activity.

What happens when those same boys (or others) find sticks in the woods, and, pretending they are swords, start stabbing, and hitting other kids?

Will you ban all sticks?

What happens if some of the youth start throwing acorns/pebbles/rocks/shoes/water bottles/etc at other kids pretending they are grenades of some sort?

Will you ban touching anything that can possibly be imagined to be any type of weapon?

You need to address the BEHAVIOR involved.

I would also mention that BSA considers wrist rockets/slingshots to be the same thing as BB guns. As such they are not allowed at any kind of Pack event, and can ONLY be used at district/council events under TRAINED instructors.

I am also a bit concerned that you brush off the comment you made that a den leader is willing to quit the Pack over the issue of toy guns, by stating he is just "stubborn".

That is not being "stubborn". This sounds like you have stirred up quite a hornets nest that has divided your Pack.

You state in your other thread that "you have to draw the line somewhere". It sounds like your "line" is cutting your Pack in half.

District events have different rules/regs than Troop events.

The rule that Cub Scouts (Webelos) are not allowed to participate in Boy Scout activities (Camporee) has been around for a long time.

Cub Scouts have different rules than Boy Scouts. Cub Scouts are only allowed to participate in CUB SCOUT level activities.

This is why councils combine a Webelos-ree/Woods with a Boy Scout Camporee. The Boy Scouts do Boy Scout activities, the Webelos do Cub Scout activities, and watch the Boy Scout activities so they see what they can be doing in the next year or two when they are Boy Scouts.

As to Webelos using the climbing tower and rifle range (on either the same, or different weekends) -

Per BSA Shooting Sports Manual on Cub Scouts -

"Shooting items from slingshots and wrist rockets can be dangerous. For these activities, follow the same safety guidelines and rules as used for BB gun shooting. Always shoot at a range such as an archery or BB gun shooting range."

"Cub Scout shooting sports programs may be conducted only on a district or council level. Archery and BB gun shooting are restricted to day camps, Cub Scout/Webelos Scout resident camps, council-managed family camping programs, or to council activities where there are properly trained supervisors and all standards for BSA shooting sports are enforced. Archery and BB gun shooting are not to be done at the pack level. The use of pellet air rifles is restricted to Webelos Scouts in a BSA resident camp setting only."

"All shooting ranges in the Cub Scout program must be supervised by a qualified range master who is at least 18 years of age and who meets the minimum requirements. See specific qualifications and training requirements for BB gun and archery range masters under Shooting Sports Personnel Descriptions in Chapter 1, and in Section V, Cub Scout Shooting Sports."

"BSA BB Gun Range Master

Eighteen years of age or older and trained by a National Camping School shooting sports director or National Rifle Association rifle instructor, or NRA/USA Shooting/CMP certified rifle coach

Is in charge of the firing line at any time it is in operation

BB gun training must be renewed every two years, and this person must have a current Training Course Certificate, No. 33767."

From BSA Guide to Safe Scouting -

"BSA units that want to conduct their own bouldering, climbing, rappelling, or other related climbing activities must follow the requirements set forth in Climb On Safely."

From BSA Climb on Safely -

"Webelos Scouts

Bouldering no higher than the climbers shoulder height, with trained spotters.

Climbing in a climbing gym or using a portable wall or other age-appropriate facility with close supervision and age-appropriate instruction and equipment.

Rappelling with a trained belayer.

No belaying by Webelos Scouts. Climbers must be belayed by trained belayers."

"There must be a minimum of two (qualified) instructors for all climbing and rappelling activities (up to 12 participants) and one additional instructor (at least 18 years of age) for up to each additional six participants, maintaining a 6:1 ratio."

"A qualified climbing/rappelling instructor who is at least 21 years of age and trained in the specific type of climbing must supervise all BSA climbing/rappelling activities. A capable instructor has experience in teaching climbing and rappelling to youth, acknowledges personal limitations, and exercises good judgment in a variety of circumstances."

"Sources of qualified climbing and rappelling instructors include, but are not limited to, the following:

BSA Level II instructor (climbing director or lead instructor)

National Outdoor Leadership School

Wilderness Education Association

American Mountain Guides Association

Eastern Mountain Sports

University or college climbing/rappelling instructors

Professional Climbing Guide Institute

Professional Climbing Instructors Association"

You state you "took all the training". What training was that exactly?

>>"I have a den leader threatening to quit unless his son gets to bring a toy gun to a cub scout function."

>>" If she's trained as a counselor for the Cub awards, I'd doubt that she's automatically trained for the Boy Scout awards.">"My wife went for a class put on by them, that as far as I can tell makes here eligible to work with Cubs, Boy Scouts, and Girls Scouts."

>>"Religious organizations generally know nothing about the emblems."

>>"Most religious programs for Troop/Crew level to NOT require a trained mentor"

The only Religious Emblem Coordinator position mentioned in any of the BSA Membership Resources sections are the District/Council level positions.

Perhaps this is an idea still in the works for the unit level.

Personally, I feel this position can be easily fulfilled at the Cub level by an Asst Cubmaster, or the Advancement Chair. There is really no need for a specific Committee position. Although, if a Pack has a volunteer willing to take this on, more power to them. Since most of the Cub level programs are done at home with the family, their main job would be informing Pack families of the existance of the programs, directing them to their religious organizations, and assisting in the purchasing of materials/awards.

Most religious programs for the Troop/Crew level require a trained mentor to work with the Scouts. This is where a Unit Religious Emblem Coordinator might be practical. Although, if they would need to be trained by multiple religious organizations, their best bet would still be to direct Scouts back to the Scout's own religious organization.

Also, at the Troop/Crew level I feel that the position of Chaplain covers this well enough. One of the responsibilities of a Chaplain is to - "Encourage Scouts to participate in the religious emblems program of their respective faith".

>>"This was family camp, not invite you boyfriend for a roll in the sack and stick your kid in a separate tent camp. All other Scouts were sleeping with parents or in a tent with older sibs next to the parents tent.">"With our CO, local council and even national demanding strict adherence to YP and safety, how can you justify letting a 7 year old sleep alone in a tent next to a rolling river, a busy road in a public park."

Interesting, in our council, as soon as the Scouts get their Take Order forms they can start selling. Also, as soon as they pick up their Show/Sell corn they can can begin selling.

You must have gone right from popcorn pick-up to Booth Sale.

I would be a bit suprised that no one at pick-up mentioned that the sale started the following day (today).

None the less, the SM's actions were over and above what even a misanthrope would consider rude. Hopefully someone mentioned to this idiot the Scout Law that he is supposed to be a role model for, and the very negative impression he made on Scouts who will now not likely even consider crossing to his Troop.

I would agree that you should arive early, and have a quiet talk to the owner of the store, before setting up.

Hopefully all will go well today.

>>"If other packs made contributions to district leadership like that in proportion to their membership, the district would be sitting pretty."

Never did a Tiger induction.

Tigers had all earned their Tiger Totem, and some beads by the first Pack meeting so I would do a bit of a ceremony for that. Larger ceremonies like face painting, glowing water, color changing water, fizzy bones, etc, are all saved for rank award, and graduation ceremonies.

We do a "welcome to the Pack" presentation where all new Cubs, and their parents, are called up, and the Cub is presented their red "brag" vest, council patch, and first segment. Then everyone stands up and gives a "big round of applause" to the new new members.

This Painted Tiger ceremony might be adapted to work for you -

http://www.scoutorama.com/ceremony/ceremony_display.cfm?cer_id=24

I would take out the Tiger Motto (no more Tiger Motto), and rank badge references, and add a symbol for the Webelos trail (green stripe down nose?).

>>"I am pleased to be able to say that our WDL is making that transition, with regular outdoor activities for Scouts in his 2nd year Webelos program."

SP - Back in the day when you were a SM, how many of your Troop's parents, and leaders, did you "require" to attend district/council committee meetings?

How many of your Troop's volunteers did you "require" to volunteer at the district/council level in any capacity?

How many of the volunteers in your current units do you "require" to also volunteer at the district/council level?

Have you ever, then, or now, "required" the COR of any of your BSA units to attend district/council committee meetings, and to volunteer at the district/council level?