Scoutfish

Well...I guess the I&P forums will be closing down!

" Morality has become what one feels at the moment." Yep, you said it! There used to be a time when kings owned slaves in the name of being morally right and within God's favor. There used to be a time when people had multiple wives and also married children( well, that still happens don't it) while still being considered morally correct. People were slaves, fought that slavery because it was wrong, then owned slaves themselves. A certain ruler decreed that people of particular faiths as well as certain hair and eye colors were superior and all others were to be exterminated. At one time, no self respecting person would be caught with a tan, God forbid, lest society thought you were a poor class working person. Yet today, that same golden bronze tan means you are a smart, rich upper class person who does not have to work. But at the same time, it could signify lower intelligence that does not understand the concept of skin cancer. The thing about being "morally superior" is that next week, next year, or the next century, society realizes that the past morally superior society was full of hipocrits, bigots and arrogantly self centered idiots. They realize the former society was compltely wrong and had it backwards. As far as homosexual being a choice, I think not. No more than people chose their allergies, favorite colors or fears. Everybody has a certain turn on. Did you choose it or just become aware of it and yern for it? Why does one man like blondes while another likes redheads? Why does one man like a simple act or procreation, while the other has to be involvd in fetish dress up and role play with multiple people? Did they choose that, or just discover that they are unexplainably drawn to and enjoy it? One woman is attracted to brawny bare chest hairy as a bear men, while another likes slim, nest, pale skinned brainy guys. Do we choose our phobias? Why are some people borm very artistic, while others can't even hum a tune in their own head? Why are some smart, while others have half the common sense of a dead donkey? Why do some folks have to be the center of attention, why others are painfully shy? Choice? Nah, I do not think so. Besides, when did you make the choice you did? What day/year did you consciously decide to be straight over gay? And if this choice isn't "natural" to the "men breed with women" option...then explain the "men who choose not to procreate at all" choice made by men in the name of God. Men are created to "sow" the oats, yet they choose not to. Men are created with vocal cords, yet vow to not speak. Seems that those behaviors are no more different than the so called "choosing to be gay" . Yet those choices, which go against the creation of man, are somehow considered emmaculate and we put them ona pedistal. Why? Because "Morality has become what one feels at the moment." And...... "A SM telling the scouts that he has the habit of kissing his wife before he leaves for work " should be told that he needs to stop! There are times and p[laces for everything, but a scout meeting is not the place to talk about his personal habits, wether it be kissing his wife/husband, , hugging, or how he wipes his butt.

Personally, I'd rather see a scout in half unifrom who has his shirt tucked in and his necker neat, and learning and having a great time - over scouts who are in full uniform who's shirts are not tucked in, bored, not paying attention, etc. Anybody can dress up in a uniform as mentioned before: band, ball player, police officer, McDonalds employee, inmate, lawyer, or congressman. But like a book, the outside has nothing to do with the inside. The uniform doesn't make the band play better, the suit doesn't make the lawyer a better e litigator, and a cold blooded murderer and a fool of unlucky circumstance have the same prison garb on.

Sorry, wasn't trying to bail. My son somehow locked the computer up and crshed it. How is it he can click the mouse 1 time, and do as much damage as it would take me 4 hours and 236 clicks to do the same thing? Anyways, Our COR is very active with the pack, troop, and ship chartered to our CO. He was at one time, the CM and later, the SM...but that was long ago. Way long ago. He's a great guy, very supportive and willing to help any way he can. Great personality too. But when we decided to raise or pack dues to $40.00 from the previous $36.00 , he started talking about collecting either 0.25 or .50 cent den dues instead of raising the pack dues. Great guy, but somehwat stuck in the past. And of course, the misunderstanding between 1 on 1 and 2 deep.

Well, the average scouter probably has enough sense to not get hurt or hurt those in his charge....but you all know, that withouit G2SS...we wouldn't be able to tell that one mom or dad( and we all have on in our unit - don't deny it) NO when they tell you they shoot the shotgun all the time at home with no harm at all, and with more beer in their stomach than they had all day today at camp! Think of Cousin Eddie from the "National Lampoon's Vacation" series. G2SS does prevent the overzealous sue anybody for everything parents too, but I'd bet it's pretty much designed to stop the "Cousin Eddies " from killing our kids!

So I shouldn't be holding my breath on seeing any lawn dart merit badges or beltloops any time soon?

Yeah, If the COR wants us to do it because it's a CO rule , I have no problem doing it. I just want the COR to know that it's not a BSA rule.

Okay, dumb question time again. The way I read 2 deep, I am assuming that it pretty much applies to outings. trips, xcamping. etc...and not den or troop meetings. Granted, it is a rare thing to have onlyt one adult in a den meeting or troop meeting. But you know it can happen. Well, a while back, one of our Webelos ADL's stepped ot of the den meeting to use the restroom. This left only the Webelos DL in the room with 7 Webelos scouts. Well, the COR just happened to walk by, see only the DL as the only adult, and told me I needed to find another adult to sit in until the ADL came back. I told him that I didn't think this was a case where 2 deep applied, but I didn't have a problem going in there either. "Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders, or Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips and outings. There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when the presence of adult leaders is not required and adult leadership may be limited to training and guidance of the patrol leadership. With the proper training, guidance, and approval by the troop leaders, the patrol can conduct day hikes and service projects. Appropriate adult leadership must be present for all overnight Scouting activities; coed overnight activitieseven those including parent and childrequire male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities." "No one-on-one contact. One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmasters conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths" Not specifically prohibited, but not specifically mentioned either. Again, this is the only time that I am aware of it happening, but still don't think it applies as a BSA rule, If it's a CO rule..then fine - like I said, I have no qualms about having to have 2 adults at all times. But I do want clarification just to be clear! Thanks!

Incidentally...my 10 year old son is 5' 3" tall. Last month, we just started buying him adult - 29" waist pants. The 4 or 5 months before that, we were constantly struggling to find pants with a big enough waist that matched up with the inseem. Seems for the last year, you could find husky sizes, which are shorter, or regular length, which were not wide enough. Right now,some of the adult pants are getting a bit snug in the waist. He's only 110 pounds, so he proportionally "slightly" skinny for his height...not a chunker as you'd might think. The next time we buy him pants, they will be at least the next size up if not two sizes up/ Now, if you figure that he's an average 10 year old boy with 10 year old mentality and 10 year old sense of adventure....then you know we are lucky if a pair of pants makes it 3 weeks without holes in the kness. Now figure the cost of buying a new pair of scout pants every other month. Not gonna happen in this household. Don't expect any other parents to do it either. Now, if this somehow prevents him from participating, advancing or completeing Activity Badges, or beltloops, learning , etc...at den meetimngs or pack functions......then it's time the committee and myself have a seroius talk with the DL. Also, as I said before, I love to wear my uniform. I wear it even when I am not even doing anything with any of the kids or when I am not likely to be seen by them on den meeting nights.

WEll, I suppose a "100% Boy's Life Quality Unit" is a better unit than a ""Quality Unit"..hands down and with no arguements , right? I mean, having everybody suscribe to a magazine is without a doubt better that just having a CM., DL, or SM teach you anything. And following that logic...a troop of 7 boys who are 100% Boy's life MUST BE way better and obviously a better unit than one with 50 boys and no 100% boys life. Yeah, I hear " SHOULD not be worn" and "SHOULD be worn" ( emphasis mine - no doubt!) But it doesn't say "Can not" or "Must be".. I read that as: "We really real want you to, but we do not absolutely demand it" Personally, it sounds more like a way to push $$$$ at the scout shop than to make scouts better . And really, there sre so many thread lamenting why this shirt sucks, why that one sucks worse, why this design must have been designed by a chimp with half the IQ of a dead cow. Then we talk about boys who do not want to be seen outside of scouting with the uniform on. But wait, the BSA books say that boy do ( not should) feel a sense of pride for wearing it. Then again, the literature also says( as well as most DE's) that parents are just absolutely dying to volunteer and can barely contain themselves waiting on leaders to just ask them to help out. So the books might say the uniform makes a big difference. And it might, just not when it coms to ability, learning, commitment to the unit or how active they are. And since we are talking about it, does a cop out of unifrom become less trained? Is the Dr who is not in scrubs dumber than the one who is? Seriously, if that is the case, then most of us leaders must forget what scouting is all about on the days we are not wearing our uniforms.....oh wait....that could be true! UH-oh! QUICK! A show of hands....How many posters are wearing their uniforms right now?

First,let me say this: I am proud of my uniform. I love to wear it. I always try to make sure it is worn correctly as possible. But the thing is this: That uniform doesn't have anything to do with the ideas that form in my hear, the personality I have , how I act towards or treat the boys in my pack, or how I get up and sing and dance and cut up with the boys. That unifrom does not make me a better speaker when addressing the audience at any activity , nor does it make me more of a CubMaster than if I don't wear it. Our pack only requires the top half of a uniform for 2 reasons: 1) Scout pants are cost-rediculous! PERIOD! 2) I can't speak for anybody elses boys, but ours could put on a brand new pair of scout pants ( or any pants) and a hole will magically appear in the knees before the boy even takes a step or blinks his eyes! Now, during a pack meeting when the 2nd year Webelos stand up and recite the Boy Scout Pledge, the ones who just aren't wearing the uniform somehow know it just as well as those in uniform, or hlaf uniform. The uniform has never ever had anything to do with how active they are, how well or fast the advance or learn. TRuth be told, if any leader thinks that not wearing a uniform means a boy is less of a scout..then that leader is missing a big part of the picture. I mean, if the uniform makes that kind of difference, then one day, I suppose everything the ever learn will just disappear when they no longer are scouts or transition to scouters. Again, does this mean a 25 year old male who earned his Eagle will be totally useless and have no clue what to do if he happens to be wearing his work clotheswhen he sees a car wreck? If this boy is at the beach and isn't wearing his uniform..does any firts aid or swimming knowledge just vanish? NO! Again, I wish ever scout wore the entire and complete uniform. But I also wish I would win the lottery and not have to work to pay my bills.

There are really two ways a unit can look at the JTE sheet: 1) If you already have a great program and a very quality unit - it's like getting a Christmas bonus in that you are getting something extra for doing something you were doing anyways. 2) If you program isn't great, isn't very good or if you are new and need something to shoot for, then following what is in the JTE sheet will bring you closer if not to a great program. Ofcourse, "great" being like beauty...it's in the eye of the beholder, or in this case, the unit!

Electives could also be called: "Above and beyond" They are above and beyond what is required to get rank. They get you extra bling on your uniform, and pride for doing them, but cannot be held against you for not doing them.

"I'd feel terrible quitting on the boys, but this is affecting my wife and son so I have to put them first." ABSOLUTELY!! WEll, wether we agree or not on the original post, see eye to eye or not on the den meetings, Family comes first. In the pack, the most you might see any one boy is five years, In a troop...5 to 9 years? But family is forever.

Yeah, you know...I started to say that one item will not matter as it is variuos scores. Doing a rough estimate based on past years, we would still make gold with a few hundred to spare. THis year,I don't know as we are loosing our ACM, CC, Awards Chair , Webmaster ( yeah, kinda differet catagory)and Webelos II DL to crossing over. I have managed to get 2 new ACM's, Awards chairs, and Webmaster so far, Our fisrt year Webelos DL will become the WII DL and I even have a Tiger DL already trained and lines up. JUst gotta get a CC and that's a biggie to fill.

Meeting a minimum number of scouts going to council camps would be our only hinderance in any of the 3 levels of JTE. Some of us go. Some go every chance they get, but the cost is prohibitive. If I wasn't volunteering at our resident camp next month, I'd not take my son. The cost would be $75 for him, and $35 for me. Plus it 9is a hair over 2 hours away, so I also have to take at least half a day at work and he'd have only half a day at school. On it own, the half days are not so bad, but with cost of camp, plus Fri night food, gas, $$ spend on t shirts and other junk... We also have our pack campouts around the same time as council camps. Scouts are $15 each( also covers awards, patches and misc materials) and parents and siblings are $10 each. So we are looking at $110.00 for my son and I at council camp versus $25.00 at a pack campout and it's more relaxing and laid back even and closer knit.

SNOW!!!! We have bumble bees, pollen, and baby lizards running around!

Egypt is holding it's own pretty well. Libya is like the tallest guy on the Basketball team picking on the shortest guy. Oh, the oil refineries on fire might have a teeny-timy bit to do with it too!

Well,you want to hear the kicker? Next month, I - a married heterosexual male with a son - am going to dress up like a ballerina because I bet the boys in my pack that a certain % of them wouldn't make rank AND stick out the year. Not only have we not lost a single scout, but had 4 transfer to our pack. So now I am gonne be wearing my scout boots, pink tights, a tutu, short sleeve leader shirt over long sleeve pink top and a scout hat. And somebody is worried about a gay leader's influence? LOL! Yeah, I'm only doing it once and only to get the boys to laugh their butts off.

Yes, I know my point of view is regarded as ,"far right", "religious fanatic", Nah, I wouldn't call you a fanatic. When you start bombing and killing those who do not agree with your beliefs...then you'd be a fanatic.

I guess it depends on the site and the council you are in. Not sying we drag a pot of water and a toilet to the middle of nowhere, but we do find places sometimes that are not on a pre set list. They met site inspection guidlines and met minimum requirements. So far, we had our past tour permits approved for these places.

Oh Wow! You'd think that since I am BALOO trained myself,I would have remembered that one! And while we are at it, get several people BALOO trained. Myself( CM) and one of next years ACM's are BALOO trained. I'd like to see at least half of the adult leadership to be BALOO trained incase there are ever conflicts with work, vacation, sickness, or other events. When you go pack camping you HAVE to have at least one person ptresent who is BALOO trained.

I'm not saying that I think BSA shoudl have to accept gays, just saying that members of BSA shoukld not have to denounce them. Two different things entirely. BSA is a private club that has the right to make it's own rules. I'm cool with that. I just saying that being a scouter should not mandate what my stance is supposed to be. I know vegatarians that do not agree with PETA because of their ...well...excentric actions they partake in sometimes. Likewise, my being in scouting is not associated with wether i am against or for gay marrage. Allowing gay leadership is not the same as saying that all members must be against it. MMatter of fact, while gay leadership is under BSA's control (orgazational policy) , gay marrage is beyond BSA's control ( federal and state regulations). Kinda like: I do not agree with polygamy or threesomes or foursome. But I am not going to condemn them any more than I condem people who eat onions on their burgers because I cannot stand onions. It's a personal viewpoint. I respect everybody's raighht to have their own views and beliefs. I do not force mine on them, and do not allow them to force theirs on me. And like the pro onions people versus anti onion people...wew can all get along fine if we just choose to. But yeah, I totally agree with you completely that BSA would have some big rifts in it if gays were suddenly allowed in. Wether somebody was for it or against it doesn't have anything to do with the fact it would happen.

Forgot to say: Yeah, tere are regulations and rules, but they are in place for safety and also to benefit you and the cubs. They are not burdensome or very hard to meet. You can go to farmer Bob's field and be able to meet all the requirements and Tour plans without much trouble at all.

The two best places to find all the info you need are : Cub Scout Leader Handbok and G2SS The Cub Scout Leader Handbook give you most of the requirements and definitions, while G2SS is more specific in age allotments. You do not have to go to an offical Council or district camp. In the Leaders book, in the apendexes, there are guideform that show you how to inspect sites to met BSA Cub family freiendly specs. You can just about camp anywhere as long as certain anemities are available. Bathrooms( porta johns do meet this) and water must be available in a resonably safe environment. The biggest thing is this: The whole pack can go camping, but individual dens cannot go by themselves as dens..except the Webelos. They can den camp. The cool thing about pack camping is you can set iyt up to do things that are geared for your pack, and not the entire council at once. You can do beltloops and pins, stuff for rank advancement, general outdoor activities or just have fun hanging out and camping. Even a game of kickball or flag football is a great thing for Cub Scouts. Hiking, campfire ceremonies, making smores at a campfire or telling stories is an amazing adventure to the cubs. Call your DE or talk to a neighboring CM. Good luck and have fun!