Scoutfish

It was the Program Director for the council who handed them out. He had 1 black and red one, 1 yellow and red, 4 solid black, and 6 olive green ones, and the orange one. Like I said, the orange one was the oddball, like me! I taught Craftsman Activity badge for Webelos . The colors themselves didn't mean anything. At the camp, we issued those tyvek paper wristbands like the hospitals use. Orange for Cubs, gren for Webelos, red for parents and red with black stripe for visitors ( grandma, grandpa, aunts, uncles etc..) Staff wore the survival braceltes. If any adults were in camp without an wrist band, they got escorted to the ranger station or admin building.

Sorry Seattle, gay marrage will not change, cheapen or affect MY marrage to my wife. heterosexuals get married for the wrong reasons, too quickly, for monetary gain instead of love and then they divorce over kids, money, cheating, etc.... Still, none of that has had a single effect on how I feel about or how I act towards my wife. If a gay man or a gay woman move in next door and get married by virtue of love or just by a piece of state issued paper..it still will not change how my wife feels about me or how I feel about her. Now, It was to blame anybody other than my wife or myself for a failed marrage, then all I am doing is looking for a copout. Poor ole me...I't all "X's" fault! Bull s***! My marrage is what it is because of who I am, what I believe and who my wife is and what she believes. Point in case: Lets look at you fopr example. Gay people are living together, they are getting married in some states. People get married and divorced for the wrong reasons every day. People have children out of wedlock every day. How's your marrage doing and how much has it been affect by those other people? I imagine it has been affected just as much as mine has, which so far is......ZIP! How much have your beliefs been affected, changed or compromised? Again, just like me......NOT AT ALLO!

When I showed up to work Resident camp a few weeks ago, one of the first things after turning in my latest YP paperwork was to pick out a survival strap in my choice of color. I picked orange because ity was the onbly one and I revel in the fact that I am an oddball.! So anyways, what exactly is a survival strap? What does it do besides let you unravel it and practice tying knots while waiting to be rescued?

We have graduation ceremonies, crossover ceremonies and AOL ceremonies. They are not related to each other other than the fact that they are part of a pack ceremony. Graduation means you are moving to the next rank...not that you completed enough requirements to earn your current rank patch. If a scout only come for 1 meeting after rouindup, and does not come again til next year...then next year, he is still the next rank up. Crossovers are for Webelos crossing over to Boy Scouts. AOL is only for WEbelos who actually earned the AOL award. During that ceremony, we either let the Boy SCouts or the OA team run things. It also involves mothers pins and dad';s tie tack and a few certificates and a carrer arrow . But again, it the WEbelos boy do not get the AOL, they can just wait til next year ( or the right age point) and join the troop of their choice.

Nah, what I am saying is this: The Troop Committee openly and knowingly choose to break trhe rules when they asked your son to be the Outdoor Coordinator. Just a wink wink here, shuffling of names and papers there and nobody wil be wiser. Then they ask your fiance-in-law ( yeah, I just made that up! ) to do the same thing. Again, a little wink wink here, shuffling of names on the paperwork and tadah,.. that council will never know about us breaking the rules. My question is this: Why is your son and fiance-in-law surprised that the troop committee broke their word again? Why are they taken aback by the fact the troop lied and mislead them to believe something if the troop had no intentions of honoring it? I mean, this is not the first time, but in this circumstance, and with your son and F-I-L ...the 3rd and 4th time. I never said your sonm or his fiance hurt anybody, I am saying the TC purposely lied to and mislead BSA. They worked around obstacles and manipulated ( well cheated really) the system to get the particular results they wanted. Why is your son and his fiance shocked that it happened again? They ( son and F-I-L ) were used as pawns. The question is this: Who uis nect? The COR? The CO? The IH? The members of the troop? All the scouts? I have no reason to think that this is the end of the winking and shuffling.. Does your son, his fiance, you or your husband think so?

"and if all these things are good or ok, why isn't it good to shoot your mother? People get hurt in all of these other circumstances. Why not just go around stabbing people? Is it ok just because the wounds don't show?" Wow, I didn't know that not caring if a gay man kissed another was the same as killing my mom or going around and stabbing people! I'd think it it was that bad, then there would be some kind of spontaneous combustion every time a gay person kissed! I forgot to flush the toilet last night too...does this mean I might as well dump 1,000 gallons of biotoxin into the city drinking supply? The point...which you missed is this: Two men or women does not affect my life or the sanctity of my marrage. If I think that a gay couple next door is the reason behinmd all my marrage woes... then maybe I think Ford is responcible for people going to bars and getting drunk and driving too. BUT WAIT A MINUTE! Since I have not stood up and asked my government to ban all alcohol..isn't that the same as supporting murder by drunks? Why, I might as well just go around and start stabbing people! But first, I have to snuff out my mom!

It's really, really simple. 1) They brole rules they signed a pledge to follow in order to get what they wanted. Why is anybody at all surprised they did it again when they are again trying to get what they want. You knew them as rule breakers. Why the hurt feelings when they did again, what you already knew them to have done.? Just like a person who leaves their spouse to be with their maid/poolboy lover..why think they won't do it agaion? Why the surprise and hurt feelings when they do to you..what the two of you did to somebody else? 2) Laws, rules, SOP's ...whatever! Toe-may-toe...tah-mah-toe....red oxalic acid fruit sphere. Whatever, I think everybody knows that BSA's rules are not part of any federal or state laws. But we did sign a document saying we would support and uphold them. If a unit totally goes out of it's way to get around and cheat the rules to get the outcome it wants...they WILL do it again and again. THis possibly could have been the first time, but it sure ain't the last!

"But da truth is the SE doesn't really do investigations and hasn't really "seen" anything." Well, the parents of thos in question, judges, lawyers and DA's havent really seen anything either, but that doesn't stop somebody from sueing now does it? Not sure about your area, but in ours somebody will look into it. How far? Depends on what was reposrted and who it is reported to. Thing is, if an SE gets a handfull of calls over time from many people about only one person..then a red flag should pop up in his mind if nowhere else. If he gets enough calls about somebody, he will do something. Maybe he is obnly avoiding a potential lawsuit and wants to cover his but..but as long as something is done to protect the kids..then the why isn't so much as big a deal. What concerns me though is that you seem to be saying people shouldn't even bother since nothing will happen. Me? I know rediculous unwarranted stuff gets reported, but I thinks it's better to err on the side of caution than to ignore it. If nothing gets done...I can still sleep at night knowing I did my part.

GUTTER ICECREAM!

I can totally comprehend the importance of calling the SE instead of just deciding for your self how bad it is. For example: Maybe while at a District event, Beavah sees me doing something somewhat that doesn't quiite sit right. He could take it upon himself to think it's just a one time , no big deal thing..or report it. Next month, while at Resident Camp, Packsaddle sees me in a situation that may not be totally kosher. He coulod make the judgement, or call the SE. 3 Weeks later, before or after a pack meeting, a DL see's me in a situation that technically violates YP, but since he knows me, he knows that I am not "that kind of person". Or he couold call the SE . If for no other reason than to follow rules to a T. Now, each incident may be nothing, but the SE is in a position to see That I do something not quite right or that "appears" suspicious on a constant basis. For the above outcome, I totally get sticking to the rules of YP. You ever watch the news and hear about somebody who snaps and kills the whole family or blows up a bank or something? What do the friends and neighborsd always say: "He was such a nice guy...never hurt or bothered anybody. He was well liked and respected!" But you never hear people say: "Oh , him? WE all always knew he was a nut. I'm surprised it took this long for him to get caught!" So yeah, people are not what they always seem. Children will make up excuses for their abusers out of embarrassment and out of fear of retaliation. Wives makes up excuses or think it's their own fault. But at the same time, after having said what I did above...I will be violating YP if I bring my nephew to a meeting or event because mom and dad are working and my own son doesn't go due to sickness. It is in those particular types of situations where YP needs to be either lenient, have a list of "except when's" or not aply until I step mout of the btruck at the CO and "declare" myself on the clock.

Scouting is well....scouting as we know it. Scoutreach( in my opinion) is just an extra arm of scouting which pushes extra hard to gain members by altering certain parts of the program. Soccer for instance. It's scouting revolving around scouting. But let's be real here...there are two sides to everything: Scouts: A cool program that some volunteers spend extra time and effort to make it work withing different ethnicities and cultral differences among community members. BSA: Hey, let go after them too. WE adapt to their interests, get them hooked, and then we have millions more people buying our books, uniforms, pins, hats, etc....

Oooops! Not the thread I thought it was going to be. When I read the title "Birthers" I imagined people who work in the nursery area in hog and cattle farms. I was gonna ask if Billy Crystal really would have lost the watch off his arm!

Nah, that's not hijacking...its what the thread was about!

TwocubDad, Nah, I'm not going ton reporet you because of exactly what you said: THey cannot foresee every single circumstance or incident. A broad general rul to cover everything will not work in every case. I know that if I take my nephew alone, I am violating YP, but if I leave him home, I am blatantly ignoring the spirit of the scout law and what it stands for. I also see it just the way you do. I am the CubMaster of the pack. But I am also a family member and relative of my nephew. The way I see it, I am only a CM when I am doing pack stuff with scouts. If one of my cubscouts happenes to be a neighbor, then he's only my scout and I am only his CubMaster when it comes to scouting related events. The rest of the time, I am a neighbor who just happens to be a scouter and a CM.

Playdoh. You don't even have to say anything to them. Just put it on the table and see what happens. Or if a leader or two wants to volunteer, a game of kickball or something similar outside. Not the same situation, but when we have our parent orientation meeting, we gather all the kids by rank and let them make sliders as their first activity. 1/2 " pvc pipe cut into 1 " pieces and a couple hoy glue guns ( for leader use) then break out the do dads ,beads, thingys and other stuff. Wooden wheels are great, Glue them to the pipe and let the kids color with markers!

Well that's just strange....I just got an e-mail from BSA saying my membership has been revoked. Must be a glitch or something!

I will say this about the example I brought up: I have taken my nephew many times, but so far, my son has always been there. But, if the day comes when I might possibly take just my nephew..and I am spotted by a concerned parent or another leader....and I mean genuinely concerned and not just being malicious - then I have no issue with them reporting it to the committee, the COR, or SE. Matter of fact, I hope any adult or scouter who has a genuine and honest concern would err on the side of overly cautious and call it in. If the SE has even a lick of common sense, he'll understand the situation.

I don't know if any of you remember or not, but I made a post earlier this year about hos I bet all our cub scouts that they could get 70% of all the cubs in all the dens to stick the entire year out and reach rank for the year. If they did, I'd dress up like a ballerina. Well.....only 1 scout dropped out this year. NBo, it wasn't neccesarily because of our bet, but still.....only 1 scout - that's awesome. Anyways, it was more for goofing off and getting them to laugh. I also took a moment to tell the younger scouts who are too shy or embarassed to stand up in front of the pack for skits or pack meetings that - If I could stand up in front of everybody wearing a pink unitard and pink tutu with my boots, scout hat, and necker...then they could stand up proudly in front of everybody during a skit or recieving awards and advancement. Anyways, if you are a member of The Scouter.com Facebook Group, then check them out : http://www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set=a.211917642169860.57973.100000548768654&saved#!/group.php?gid=172739770499

Let me throw another wrench into the geras here: I am the CubMaster of our pack. My son (obviously) and my nephew are both scouts in the pack. As it happens to just so be, My son had an achy back and throat yesterday, that was diagnosed as Strep throat and the start of pnuemonia by the Dr this morning. Now, because his dad gets home late often, I end up taking my nephew to den and pack meetings. The dad shows up a little latter and my nephew goes home with him. So if my nephew needs a ride tonight, and since my son WILL NOT be going...am I violating YP? You bet I am because the "son home sick but nephew still going" provision was left out. Yeah, not my child, but is family. Not immediate family, but related. Suppose it was the son of a single mom or dad who worked the night shift and lived next door? Maybe I have known them for 18 years and the boy all his life? I have only been the CM for a year, and a scouter for 3. But I have been an uncle to my nephew all his life. Again, am I violating YP ? Technically I am. Realistically, I am not . Morally, I am actually being a good citizen and living up to the scout law by being: Loyal- Helping a neighbor/ family Helpful - see above Friendly - It's what friends do for each other Courteous - If I was asked, it's nicer than saying no Kind - Do I need to explain Thrifty - Mom or dad doesn't have to pay a baby sitter or somebody to take Jr to scouting because because they are at work. Trustworthy? I don't know...you tell me. According to YP, no. According to my neighbor and other parts of scout law...then yes, I am. If the parents are okay with it ANd within view of the SM, I'd say that is the over riding authority. At least in following CS ( that would be common sense).

Venividi, I say 1 out of every 20 adults acts this way over 50 % of the stuff.

Pack: SHHHHHHH! Are you trying to blow my cover? Oh , by the way, would you happen to have a spare Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator by any chance? I can't see Venus!

Having had an hour or two for something to roll around in my head, I have to wonder if I I am missing something here? And it's not just any one thing in particular, but an overall consensus of what scouter post: It seems that alot of us don't like the way council or BSA does trhis or that, we think they have no clue, and maybe they are just out of touch....... Yet it seems to be that we ( who think we are doing everything right) might just have biggers issues. For example - but not in any partricular order: We think it's too rude to say something to a healthy person who abuses handicapped parking spots, but yet, we will give a scout the 3rd degree for not wearing 100% of his uniform right down to wether a patch is 1/4" our of spec. WE argue that if scout doesn't meet every single requirement for rank to a degree that NASA scientists could put a micrometer on - that the scouts is a slacker and should fail...yet we ignore rule or regulations if we don't like them. WE expect scouts ( who are under the age of legal adulthood) to act like adults with 20 years of adulthood experience, but then we argue and start name calling and insulting if somebody doesn't agree with us over the worth of a particular idea. We expect scouts to follow the scout law and ideals...especially being hoest and trustworthy, yet we decide on a daily or weekly basis if we want to bother follwing protocal. WE expect scouts to follow through and accept their actions( voting for PL or whatnot) then turn around and post left and right why we were justified in lying about what we did, why we did it and who is actually in charge. Look, It's not everybody doing it, and it's not every day, but come on....let's stop and look back at ourselves and compare us to them: WE fuss about National and BSDA screwing things up, but taking a minute to look deeper...maybe it's just us not doing alot of what we should be. Maybe we are just skewered about what really counts and what doesn't/ WE think it's okat to lie about somebody and slander them because we don't like them politically, yet we will try to suspend a Tiger Cub for not saying the Cub Scout Law correctly. Just venting!

Well, how we do our ceremony is like this: (scouts are already wearing arrowheads they carved) WE have the scouts line up by rank starting with any pre Tigers who are going to join, then Tigers, Wolves etc..until the end of the line which are Webelos Except for the pre tiger and 1st year Webelos, we take their current neckers off, let them climb the steps to the bridge and cross the bride. When the come down the other side, their den leaders tie the next rank necker on. I can still do that with the Tigers no problem. The story thing changes though> At the full pack ceremony, we told the story of a chief who picked the greatest archer, gave him the best arrow from the best arrow maker, and the best bow from the best bowmaker. The archer then shot the arrow over the trees into the forrest. Then the chief sent all the scouts out to find it. At that point, you bring up the pre Tiger, You explain that even in tribes, some boys are too young to look for the arrow, but that the next year, trhey will be old enough to search. Each story segment is the intro for each rank to cross the bridge. The pre Tiger crosses,. Then you bring up the Tiger part of the story, and then the next, and the next. Thing is, each segment along wouldn't make sense by itself, and telling the whole story only works if all ranks are there. The story about scouts climbing the mountaibn is really for AOL, and not graduation. SO that's where I am at. The ceremony itself isn't a problem. WE have that planned out aklready. I just need a stand alone Tiger graduation related story to tell during the progression of the ceremony.

Nah, I am not emotionally invlovled or vested in it. I also did not suggest or imply yelling at or having a shoving match with anybody. I am just saying that you can tell them in no uncertain terms that they can move their car or the police or tow truck or both will be called. And it can all be said in a calm, clear , and rational voive. Do not vote or have a bartering discussion over it. Just tell that : "This is how it's going to be". Period. The point about my father was trhis: He qualified for a handicapped plate/placard. Yet he didn't get one because he knew that other peopole needed it worse than he did. Now, if he can have that attitude and that respect for a handicapped parking spot, then how can any healthy, physically fit person even begin to try to reason thay are justified or worthy of that spot. Living the scout law and ideals is not something we tell oters to do. Nor is it sometrhing we as leaders are immune to. It starts at the top, is taught by example and should be followed by all! The thing is, those who park there without regard , anr those who thiunk they are above it and that it doesn't apply to them. Time for them to follow the rules wether they like the rules, or agree with the rule or not!

I think the sensitivitry thing is understood by all. But I'm going to give my $.02 on the handicapped parking issue. I'd tell anybody I see parking there that does not have a handicapped plate, placard or sticker to move! Period! No questions asked, not voting, no "if you get around to it" ...nada , zilch , END OF DISCUSSION! If it is a scout leader, tell them that as a person and scxouter who signed up and signed aform stating they would live up to all scoit laws and ideals..that - they of all people_ should know better. Sorry, parking in a handicapped spot when you are not is not an oversight. It's flat out rude, obnoxious, self centered and in some places..illegal. I consider it to be worse than fraud! Granted, I am the CubMster, and I am also not to shy to tell somebody to move their car. Also, I wouldn't hesitate to call the police and a tow truck on that car. My father was served in the U*nited States Coast Guard for 22 years and 3 months ( yeah, odd amouint of time isn't it). He developed a bad knee and a heart condition because it it. But he didn't get a handicapped tag or placard when offered by the Dr and the VA because he said this: "I can still walk- which is more than alot of people can say" He wasn't just talking vets either. People have severe pain, problems and what not just from taking a few stepps. Not saying you are doing anything wrong or should do more. I'm just saying ...in my own opinion.... Bad manners my butt! Their feels are totally and completly trumped by a handicapped person's actual physical pain and limitations. No, there my not be any one person using that spot right now, but the signs don't say "Handicapped unless not being used" Tell those leaders to grow up and have some respect! Again, in my own opinion...I think it would be more in bad manners to not say anything.