rlculver415

Our troop has about 25 active members (meaning they attend and participate). Currently, of the 25 boys there are 11 Life Scouts and another 3 Star are just waiting for the next BOR to move up. Of the other 11 boys, only two are newly Star and the rest are new scouts. I point out this last part to show a certain gulf in rank only. These Life scouts are not all the same age nor did they start at the same time. We just have some amazing go-getters, and some just enjoying Scouts at their own pace. Adult leadership has done pretty well at not leaning on the advancement issue.

All this to say: What to do to keep these soon-to-be Eagles happy, interested and involved in Scouting especially at the regular meetings? It seems to me that the older boys spend a lot of time training up the new guys (which is good), but at the expense of challenging themselves and stretching their own horizons. Some of the Life scouts seem to think Eagle is the end of the road - an idea that I'd like to correct (and keep from spreading). There is a small Venture patrol in existence, but I haven't seen them do much. Maybe they are just waiting for more boys.

We will be having our annual planning campout soon. It'd be great to have some fresh ideas to present, especially just for these older boys. Been checking out the Sea Base down in the Keys, and other High Adventure sites. The cost could be a problem with some of these, as well as the fact that most seem to need to be planned over a year in advance. Good for 2004, but what to do in the meantime? (What is this sprint for the phone on one day only, anyway? Another topic...) I'd love some ideas from all you experienced folk on activities and such, that will catch the interest of boys 13 and up.

Greetings, hikingdad!

In our troop, we have never really defined attendance/participation policies per se. (I think it might be a good idea to do so.) The scoutmaaster is pretty well left to determine how this falls in with the Scout Spirit requirement. Even so, those of us who comprise the Board of Review are also active Scouters and also aware of how well our scouts participate. We all, SM and BOR, tend to get more narrow in our expectations of attendance and participation once a scout advances in the higher ranks. This we tell the boys so there is no surprise. Usually by this level, this is really no issue. Of course, there are exceptions to that. When this arises, the scout is cautioned by the SM (and other Scouters more informally). Lack of adequate attendance and participation will adversely affect advancement in the higher ranks, especially Eagle. By the way, for us participation includes wearing the correct uniform correctly, ie - Class A during the school year, class B in the summer.

I have never taken a scout to camp, but I have been a camp staff counselor. I have also taken youth to various summer camps for years. I expect the homesickness experience is similar, regardless of the group name. Whenever I have had to deal with homesickness, I try to do the following:

1) Like Ed Mori above, I was the one to contact the parents first, to ask their support not to allow the kid to go home.

2) We usually have a pre-camp meeting with youth and parents, where we outline all expectations including our policy on homesickness.

3) Usually, due to the above, I can honestly tell the extremely-grieving youth that "Mama isn't going to be able to get you until..." (some day just past the half-way point in camp).

I try to counsel parents not to be too sympathetic when their child calls to cry (it does make things worse), rather to be supportive of the program and encourage their child to give it more time. It is a hard thing all around, for the group, the child, the parents, and the adult leaders. In all the time I've been doing this, I have observed that the youth finally adjust to the new experience and end up having a blast. Have y'all noticed that it usually is the first year campers who struggle with this? I had a 12-year-old camper this summer who had never left home ever before - it was an very difficult adjustment for her, but she also just hated to come home at the end of the week!

I have no disagreement with SM424. Good recap of what I was attempting to say.

acco40 - you are correct that boys should not remind adults of proper etiquette. I missed that point. The point at which boys (minors) become adults is 18, legally. I am not referring to religious rites of passage.

I, too, believe it is possible and desirable to treat all people with respect, regardless of age, etc. At no time should any adult leader talk down to a boy or treat him as an inferior or use negative reinforcement as a training method (ie - embarrassment, ridicule, etc). All children need training and guidance as they grow into adulthood. We Scouters are also bound by the Scout Law as we do our part in this endeavor.

"Signs Up!" - gotta agree with you there, too. Our cub pack would shout out that phrase. Maybe the young guys needed that, but it seemed odd to me to request silence by shouting about it. Our troop just waits. It takes a little longer, but often seems more effective as one boy whispers to another to quiet down. Of course, sometimes it just hard to settle.

acco40 -

Twice I have read a comment from your posts concerning the poor etiquette of an adult leader when he admonished a scout to remove his hat. I just cannot resist commenting any longer.

While you would be correct if one adult was admonishing another adult, it is the responsibility of an adult in authority over minors in their charge to remind them of proper etiquette, even in public as long as he doesn't create a scene. How is a boy to learn/remember if the adults in his life do not teach him/remind him? This is not just a parental responsibility. The Scout Law declares "a Scout is courteous". Courtesy and etiquette are synonyms. Adult leaders therefore are not only correct to admonish boys in proper etiquette, it is their responsibility whenever the need arises. If the situation you are referring to caused an embarrassing scene, then that was discourteous (the scene, that is). Any such admonition should be done quietly.

I was a den leader for three years (Bear - Webelos). The booklets were a great resource. If I had any tip to pass along it would be this: Use the helps, maybe even rely on them at first, but don't "marry" them. Eventually your leaders will become comfortable enough with the program that they should be encouraged to custom fit each month's theme to their own boys. Such helps by their very nature are generic, but each den in each Pack has strengths and weaknesses. One of the goals we as leaders should have is to bolster the weaknesses, improve the strengths while making the program fun. This will require customizing the program. It takes time and extra effort, but if your leaders will do this it pays big dividends (low drop-out rate, high cross-over numbers, increased membership, etc.). Which causes me to ask, what is the level of training in your Pack? Are your leaders all trained, do some have advanced training? Maybe your UC can teach you all how to customize the program?

Then again, my friends, there is such a thing as personal readiness. I confess that I did not learn to swim until I was 12. No particular reason, I was just happy using a life jacket if ever I went deep. And I lived on a lake! I have two children who were not enthused about learning to swim. One was TOW due to an accident when she was two. She also doesn't ever do anything new unless she is convinced of the benefits of doing so. When she was, she became a super swimmer. My son, like others mentioned, was not interested in swimming at all, refused swim lessons - even private ones. I gave up trying to get him to go. When he was 10, he asked for the lessons and has since finished all the levels Red Cross offers, except lifesaving. (He has to wait until he's old enough). I have no idea what really triggered any of us, but when we were ready we did learn to swim.

I can only suggest that if scouts remain stubborn about the swimming requirement that their SMs hold the line, while offering the boys (and their parents)encouragement and moral support. Good luck!

I expect most folks include weather check as part of their precamp planning, which helps reduce some of the weather surprises. As a former girl scout and current scouter, I've camped in Florida and Alaska, Death Valley and the Alps. I can only think of one surprise incident that caused us to decamp - three inches of water in our tent. Even then we might have stayed except the sleeping bags were soaked (I do like to sleep in comfort). Extreme hazard is the only reason not to camp in my opinion.

As an aside: I always liked the council name for BSA in Europe. Never accepted the GSUSA equivalent. Must have been a man that named us the North Atlantic Girls Scouts! (check the anagram)

I also like the practical improvements ideas proposed above. I think BSA should make these improvements for next year's line.

Like Old Grey Eagle, the first time I read the striping idea it reminded me of the military. I was an army brat, and this method of designating rank for scouts still doesn't sit with me well even after the 3rd reading because of the close correlation to army rank designations. BTW, eagle is also full colonel rank when displayed on epaulets.

RE - the city ban on scouting: I can only tell you what my friends have told me. There has been no BSA in that city for the past 20 years or so. Understand this is a small town. It is not so hard to ban an organization if the city fathers e also have great influence with the potential charter organizations, and it was their sons who were molested I suspect. BSA is not there and Girl Scouts is. Period. No-one seems to have thought to contest this on constitutional grounds.

Secondly, while certain religions and people may consider homosexuality abhorrent and others not, this was not really the point. BSA has their policy in place. All private opinions aside, this is what governs us.

Finally, this is not the thread that was started. It is so off-track, belaboring religious practices and beliefs instead, I have to wonder in any other reader is beginning to get lost.

I have to agree with Quixote here. BSA is not so much nondenominational as all-denominational. Therefore all religious beliefs must be respected by all scouts and scouters, and the practice of these beliefs should never viewed as abhorrent. Seems to me that in recent times the "freedom of religion" promised to Americans has been incorrectly translated as "freedom from Christianity". This is dismaying. Christian beliefs founded this country, and those beliefs deserve the same tolerance and respect as any other.

Another, admittedly minor, point: removing your hat before saying grace, or being inside a house of worship is not a religious practice. It is a demostration of good manners. Read Emily Post.

Finally, this thread has really gotten off track. The subject was pedophilia, I thought. What can BSA do to prevent a repeat of this? My "nephew" (17-yr-old son of really close friends) never got to be part of scouting because of city of Branford, FL banned the program after a similar incident there. This was 20 or more years ago. It is still banned to this day. So you see, this is not a new problem.

Our troop has new troop shirts printed every year, but the logo is the same. Only the shirt colors change. We had a contest in the troop to get the design. A large logo is printed on the back, with a small ID on the front left pocket. It really looks great!

The contest gets the whole troop involved. We spent time at the end of a meeting to begin the drawings in each patrol.

Silk-screening is easy to do if you have the right equipment. I'd suggest you talk to your local school art department about using theirs. You might even get a teacher to demonstrate the whole process. Most schools are very cooperative I've found. Then your outlay will be for supplies only. If your boys make their own screenings, they'll have a fun time, too!

A few of questions:

How do the older scouts respond to the SPL's leadership? Do they pay attention, listen courteously, follow directions? The older scouts, and especially the leaders of the troop, will demonstrate how to behave in the meeting by their own behavior.

Perhaps each new scout could be assigned an older scout as a buddy/mentor.

Also, does your troop use the troop instructors to deal with a smaller group of new scouts each, to train them in the basic details of scouting? By this I mean not only that which is in the Scout Handbook, but also deportment in meetings, how to make and maintain some form of personal achievement records, etc.

Does your troop assign an ASM or two to oversee the new scouts? He/They would also be of assistance to the troop instructors, as well as maintaining crowd control.

Finally, how does your SPL lead? Does he yell &/or make demands when things get out of control? Does he speak kindly and respectfully to others? Does he lead by excellent example?

Our troop has experienced similar problems at times. There is no perfect solution. However, we have used the above ideas with a great deal of effectiveness.

Mom - I have to second the above. He is going to have a ball this week, you can count on it. As a scout mom, I know how you feel. I realized this summer that I was really getting carried away when I caught myself checking the weather online to be sure he wasn't getting flooded, baked or blown away. (The mileage and time I'd already figured out.) Oh, well, it's a parent thing... My father says you never get over it...

I do indeed see the pitfalls of this. I just wish there were methods in place to prevent the shock of falsely assuming one is ready for camp, when it seems nearly a given that provisional campers won't be due to insufficient information on the council's part. And how does one go about warning other provisional campers of this pitfall?

On a more positive note, now that my son is back from summer camp, our family has a few more praises to add to the previous list. The adoptive troop (Troop 7 out of Tampa) were absolutely wonderful with the provisional boys. There were a total of 5 provisionals, and the troop SPL dealt very well with what amounted to a patrol of strangers. My son really liked him, and had no trouble following his leadership. Also, the scoutmasters of this troop immediately assigned each provisional a buddy from the troop. From what I have heard, with the 5 provisionals it became an honor to be a buddy to one of them. My son made a troop-ful of new friends, and hopes to meet them again at camp or some other council function. All of Daniel's MB counselors told me he really buckled down and made up for the lack of pre-requisites, which earned him five MBs and three nearly finished partials. He had a great time, and can't wait to share with his troop tomorrow.

This is a great idea! Our troop is always on the lookout for fundraisers that don't impoverish the usual family, friends, neighbors. Since we are a Florida troop in a community that has lots of events, this could be really profitable for us. I'll bring it up at our next committee meeting.

The adoptive troop was unaware that they were an adoptive troop until check-in last Sunday. They also experienced some consternation, since they had troop activities planned and not enough supplies for the three provisional campers assigned to them. It also impacts pizza night tomorrow, although I hope they tapped these boys for their share of the expense.

As you can see, there was an all-around failure to communicate.

We are part of Gulf Ridge Council.

This year, after much debating and soul-searching, my son decided to go to camp as a provisional camper since he couldn't attend camp with the rest of his troop. I believe the main attraction for him was the Eagle Trail program they offer there. He is there now, and I hope reaping great benefits from camp.

I have some praises and some complaints about provisional camper program here. Praises include: Boys are adopted into a smaller troop that is also attending, the camp is beautiful, the programs seem to be very well planned, camp information is disseminated to the troops efficiently.

Complaints are: provisional camper information is only available on-line, no informational packet is mailed to the camper upon registration, on-line information about camp is only a partial of the printed material troops receive (so my son arrived at camp without some necessary items, not fully prepared for some of his merit badge workshops, etc.), no comfirmation of enrollment in camp (including which week, what programs or workshops).

As you can see these problems are based in administrative detail work and failure to fully communicate with the provisional camper and his family. Last Sunday I was rather hot under the collar. I did email Council with my comments, politely. Today I am much calmer, and am wondering how these problems can be rectified for future provisional campers. Lest you think I am alone in this assessment, the other provisional-camper parents this week all said the same thing. While it reassured me that there was no problem with my email system, it bothers me that Council has such a glaring problem with this.

Any suggestions?

I was hoping that you more-experienced scouters would enlighten me, and I thank you sincerely. This is what I suspected, but I have no real knowledge of details like this. I am still awaiting training as a committee member, after having been a Den leader for 3 years. Where can I find such information as you have shared? I suspect that a "newbie" telling the scoutmaster and his assistants (most of them Eagles, which somewhat intimidates me) will not be as effective as something official - like policies...?

For the past 6 months or more, our troop has been discussing the possibility of requiring boys with Star rank to earn their 6 hours of service time required for the Like rank using a sort of mini-Eagle-type of project. This would mean that a boy would need to recognize a service need, propose in writing a method of meeting that need, and after receiving scoutmaster approval either by himself or by organizing several other boys carry out the proposal. Afterward, the boy must present the completed project for final approval. The idea behind this is to prepare the boy for the more detailed work required for his Eagle project. My questions are:

Is this an allowable and acceptable requirement modification?

Has anyone else done this, or something like this? Does it work well?

What are y'all's thoughts on this?