rlculver415

Every year at annual planning in August the boys begin discussing where they want to go to summer camp. They pick 3 for the PLC to research, and the decision is finalized by October. In the four years since my son has been a scout, the boys have never been to our Council's camp (although it often make the top 3 - as #3). The reasons they prefer to go out of council are that they want to explore other areas of the state or nearby states, all their OA activities and service are at the Council camp, other places offer merit badges and activities they'd like to try, and it's just too familiar. There's nothing wrong with our Council's camp. My son went there one summer as a provisional camper and had a super time. It's a nice place. Our boys just want to move around. This year, they are going to Oregon for summer camp - talk about out of council! Since we are not a high-adventure kind of troop, this is big stuff - as well as a sneaky way for the more adventurous boys to introduce the reluctant ones to the idea of high adventure ("Hey, you flew across country - why not try..."). They are also promoting doing the outdoors badges like backpacking, wilderness survival, etc., since Oregon is an entirely different climate from the southeast.

Our troop has an annual Christmas potluck dinner, which is always eagerly anticipated. The boy leaders do a special program, as well as the usual awards given. It's very nice. Several people are tagged to prepare turkey their way at the troop's expense. Everyone else is assigned a side dish or dessert to bring.

Last June, we decided to have a cookout as part of that COH since it's often the least attended (it's hot, buggy, and the summer camp awards are not in yet). The troop provided the meat and again everyone else brought side dishes and desserts. We had way more people that we'd dared hope for, and everyone had a great time. We decided to make this an annual event, too, and leave the Spring and Fall COHs as is - light refreshments.

Our troop usually camps one weekend every month, sometimes excepting Summer Camp month - about 27 to 30 days each year.

We have our first Eagle who has earned a palm. The question is: Where on the uniform does he wear it? We can find no picture or instruction on this. Thanks!

What is right is not always popular, what is popular is not always right. - source unknown

Eisley's advice is similar to what I was going to say, but I'll say it anyway.

Back when I was a Webelos den leader, there were 3 leaders and 2 dens (I was the solo). We 3 got together, pooled our strengths, reviewed our outside resources and came up with a plan that really worked. (Frequently we met as one group, but not always.) We taught our boys based on our combined strengths. I did organization/administrative stuff - I'm a detail person. Another was good at games/recreation - she taught the AOL stuff from that perspective. You get the idea. We discovered one parent who is an Eagle, and recruited him to help us with the outdoor stuff. We found other parents, as well as community leaders, with skills/abilities to help out with specific meetings and themes. We followed our plan for both years, and at cross-over all but one boy had earned his AOL, and some even earned all the activity badges. While we 3 were the responsible, designated leaders, we couldn't have offered such a fun and varied program without all the others' contributions. Essentially, we changed from leaders to facilitators - finding ways for our boys to experience scouting. We found that many are willing to help, but not lead - which is why I was a solo leader for my den. So we used their willingness to help, and boy, did they!

Personally, I dislike the idea of turning boys away from scouting. Had that experience myself, and it's discouraging when your friends in scouts are having fun without you. Could you and your Webelos leaders come up with a plan similar to eisley and I have done?

I see no serious problem with including family camping as part of the MB. There will always be parents who will try to take advantage of any part of the advancement portion. But as someone previously said, youth are basically honest and if the counselor will interview them he/she should be able to determine if they really did as they were supposed to and guide them to do better if the experience was unsuccessful.

Our counselors do allow family camping, do interview the boys concerning what was done there, just as they do concerning troop campouts. While we have several Camping MB counselors, they don't necessarily attend all troop campouts.

It is an expectation in our troop that naturally boys will camp with the troop. I have never heard it verbalized as a requirement, just that camping is so much fun who wouldn't want to go with the troop? We do some pretty cool stuff while camping. Seems to me that when one really examines the wording of that requirement to insist upon troop only camping is adding an extra element to it. It doesn't exist - don't add it.

I was so intent on getting the name of our trailer that I forgot to find out its size. We recently bought a larger trailer - a Horton Hauler (makes me think of Dr. Seuss!). Our insurance is not very expensive, and covers the driver and his vehicle when the trailer's being towed. Our SM stores it on his property, but there are several of us with enough acreage to keep it without offending neighbors. We also modified it with shelves and such to suit us. I have not noticed that possessing a trailer has altered the way the troop camps, nor have we had any thefts or vandalism. Perhaps we are lucky. Perhaps such occurences, while acknowledgable, are not so very common. The trailer, like the uniform, has been known to open doors for us.

Current monofilament thread (nylon thread) is thinner, therefore more flexible - not quite like sewing with fishing line anymore. Being thinner, it does tend to stretch if you pull the stitches too tight. It also doesn't melt at easily as before, as long as you don't use a super hot iron. Well, that would also melt the poly/cotton fabric of uniform shirts also (and who needs to iron a sash?). Actually, it is my preferred thread for patches and hemming. I do a ton of sewing and alterations for scouts, band, etc., and am a dab hand at fine hand sewing but not real skilled with machine sewing.

Greetings, fellow Floridian, and welcome!

The above advice is all excellent. It may be useful to write down your thoughts before you speak to anyone to make sure you cover all concerns you have, and that the words you use are as tactful as possible. It also means you'll have paper handy to take any notes from your meeting(s).

As for training...

If your troop does not provide training, there are always options. Check with your district and council for their JLT programs. If they don't have such training (and that would surprise me), go to another council's program. Enlist your friends to go with you. Our council, Gulf Ridge, holds theirs in July at Flaming Arrow SR. Several of our troop have gone and really enjoyed both the camp and working their ticket afterward. Our district also offers training from time to time for boys.

Keep on trying, and never give up. Good luck!

I am so left, I always come 'round right!

Left-handedness doesn't run through my family - it gallops. All my children are truly ambidextrous. I blame my right-handed husband for mixing them up.

Seriously, I do almost everything left-handed. I did finally manage to learn to knit and crochet right-handed since it was easier than reversing the stitches my friend was showing me. (I am rather proud of this.)

Our troop also gives all the money from popcorn sales to the scouts' accounts. Scouts who make the effort to sell get the cash from both Show-and-Sell (equal division of profit for all who participated on a given day) and the Take Orders. We have a couple/few boys who pay for their own summer camp every year (and one who never pays out-of-pocket for anything). Our troop has other sources of income that are just sufficient to cover any needs of the troop. Awards and such are covered by the dues.

As the fundraising guru these past few years, I am often surprised by who is motivated to earn the cash. It is not the poorer boys, but the ones whose parents could afford to pay their way. When assistance is requested by boys for summer camperships, the troop committee often inquires if they did anything to help earn money.

The problem with the smaller merit badge sash is that the small scout eventually grows, then all the lovely badges must be transferred to the larger sash. This is what my son and I are in the process of doing now.

We agreed to place them 3 across, which is what we've done from the beginning. This time, however, he decided to place all the Eagle-required badges at the top (leaving a space for the last as-yet-unearned one) and in alphabetical order. Yeah, we're probably one of those obsessive-compulsive families. The same alphabetzation goes for the elective badges. I've been saying "we" because this go-round the dear lad said he'd help sewing them on. We use monofilament thread so no-one can easily compare his inexpert stitches to his mother's.

As for spacing, the 3 across touch as do all the rows of 3. It makes for a neat presentation. We left a badge-sized gap between required and elective badge groups just in case he decided to earn any of the 3 leftover required badges as electives.

All of this is by choice of my son, as is the placing of badges on any scout's sash - a personal choice. I've never seen any placement specified in any BSA literature. There are pictures/photos that show several different arrangements.

So, how does the scout feel about his "accomplishments"? Does he really think he has earned his badge and ranks? I'll bet he doesn't. Maybe a conference with the SM and troop guide will help the boy see where he might have short-changed himself. He may even offer to work to correct the situation first. Getting him on board for remediation is a big advantage for his ultimate success.

We have a scout in our troop, now an Eagle, who has pushy parents. Very nice guy, cooperative, willing to work within the parameters of scouting. His parents are not - still. Parents are up in arms because scout is only going to get a bronze palm before he "ages out", even though he has enough MBs and time in to have received three more. Problem is he never came for a BOR until this month. He was reminded by me at least twice since January that BORs were required for palms. Parents are demanding a special committee meeting to decide in their favor, regardless of what the requirements are. Won't happen because as KoreaScouter said, everyone who has anything to do with advancement are on the same page. The only successful, minimally stressful, way to deal with pushy folks that I have experienced is to stick by the book and make sure that all others in advancement do as well.

LauraT7 --

I didn't see anyone address your concern about earning the Camping MB. The requirements do not say the campouts must be with a troop. The only specific thing mentioned is the one about summer camp. There are also 2 specific jobs that they must do on campouts (their choice). My son got credit for family camping as well as troop camping when he worked on this. So this badge can be earned with little or no troop camping. Of course, I have to wonder how much family camping these guys are doing if they don't like camping as a troop...

Personally, I think the entire leadership in this boy's troop need to take YP, boys and adults alike. Not one of them thought of this lad and his dilemma. How very self-centered! I'd also like to know why his SM (or whoever the leader was) couldn't get a buddy and make sure he was there to give the lad a ride home. What's a 50-minute drive round trip?

As a new scout leader back when, I was so enamoured of the ideal of two-deep leadership that I incorporated it into my church's Sunday School educational policy - even had windows installed in every door so no-one was ever in private with minors. Ended up saving us a bundle in insurance. I hear a lot of churches are beginning to do this now.

FWIW, I think you did the only thing acceptable under the circumstances. Dogmatic adherance to the rule would have been far more detrimental.

BTW, I am not accusing your church of unethical behavior. In re-reading the above, I can see where some might take it as that. What I mean is to be sure there is no latitude for such to occur. Written agreements/policies can prevent a world of misunderstandings. Also, do review them annually, to include any additional clauses to cover unexpected circumstances.

I hope I'm being clear. (?)

I am disturbed by what I've been reading. I understand and accept that the CO owns the pack/troop. No question - cut and dried. But be very sure to get procedures and policies outlined in writing before combining funds. A legal document.

What bothers me is really an ethics question due to an unpleasant experience. My parents headed up an outside organization that their church sponsored. Not a scout one, but bear with me. The church sponsor asked them to become part of their budget, which they agreed to do. Now the church had a line item in their budget already for this organization, and said funds would be drawn from the budget line item first. When the organization became financially "joined" to the church budget, their own finances became a "designated account". Anyone was welcome to contribute to that designated account. No, no written agreement was ever drawn up. After a while, line item funds (church's money) were diverted to more pressing needs. Eventually, the pressing needs became the norm and the line item in the church budget disappeared. After all, church reasoned, the organization has plenty of money of their own, all of it private donations and not nearly enough to run a quality ministry. Lately, the church has been trying to access the designated funds for their pressing needs. (Please read "poor financial planning" here.)

This is the "rat" that I smell. My parents' church looks like it is supporting an outside ministry, and gets the praise for their hard work, but it's only on paper and worth not even that. The membership really supports itself, and has to fight to keep that. This is deception, and I hate deception.

I hope this doesn't happen with your CO, and I think that with clear communication and documentation it is easily avoided.

My son was inspired to attend our council's JLTC by the glowing reports of his SPL from when he went two summers ago. He and another boy from our troop left at 4:00 am today in order to get there by check-in at 8. Not being a morning person, he was barely awake and hoping this was the last time he'd be required to be up at that hour (lol). I can't wait till next weekend to hear how it all went!

Since we are just idly thinking...

On the subject of formality, perhaps the difference lies in how each of us were raised. (I shudder to make sweeping generalizations about such a conglomerate population.) I was raised rather formally. My parents were to be addressed as Ma'am and Sir, all members of the military were known by their rank, all clerics and educators by their titles. I still tend to address people formally, and when others give me permission to use their names I'll usually fall back on the old Southern stand-by: Mr. (first name) or Ms. (first name). I dislike it when strangers call me by my first name, but I'm not stingy about it once we're introduced.

Thank you - very informative. Don't know why it didn't work earlier.

I had trouble with the link, so now I speak in ignorance. That's OK, though, I seem to reside there.

I had always thought that while the color is gold, the metal is brass. (My dad always used Brasso to clean his gold-colored insignia.) Bronze being a brass and tin mix, that makes sense to me. The ascending order would then be Bronze (mix), brass, silver - silver being the most valuable metal represented. Gold was too valuable to use for rank insignia, but makes a great award for outstanding service or achievement.

Keeping a minimum attendance requirement is adding to the requirements for rank advancement, pure and simple. It is not allowed.

That said, in my son's troop most of the troop committee attends most of the meetings and activities. Because of that, we know who is there and who is not, and why not. If we don't know why not, we ask. If the boy is frequently absent, someone contacts him to see if there is a problem or need we're unaware of. While we don't expect a certain percentage of attendance at meetings, attendance and participation reflect on Scout Spirit and on demonstration of leadership as pertains to the POR, so it does have a bearing on advancement. The BOR has the right to refuse advancement, and the responsibility to assist the scout to improve and advance. We do take into consideration circumstances that may hinder a scout from attending regularly. We also encourage those who cannot attend to make sure they are informed of what the troop and their patrol are doing so they can participate whenever possible. And, yes, we do get a little fussy when a scout could attend/participate but chooses not to. (I am human enough to compare scouts, for instance, who are in sports together if one manages to make the last few minutes of the meetings after practice and the other just goes home.)

Bob White ---

While I can't answer for Acco40, I do know of a summer camp that does not use blue cards - a very bad thing, in my opinion. Not all troops attending a camp are from the local council, after all. Our adult leaders literally had to corral the MB counselors from leaving camp until they issued blue cards to our boys. Unfortunately, the Fishing counselor got away early and a few boys had to redo most of that badge. (Our local MB counselor gave them credit for one requirement only.)

Rumor from the local council members up there was that since the council didn't use blue cards, neither did the troops. Since that was secondhand to me, I don't really know if that was true.

It is easy to understand why you are so frustrated with how your son's troop functions. Certainly there are areas where they should endeavor to follow BSA policies better (and set aside personalities). However, I strongly advise you (and your son, also?) not to give up on scouting because of that. There are other troops, other avenues of service that may be a better fit for you. Also, as I have repeatedly said to our scouts, Eagle is not the end of the scouting experience, but really a springboard to other fascinating scouting venues. Don't quit now!