rlculver415

Also, your troop should have a list (current or otherwise) of MB counselors within the troop. I'd check there also, since this is where most boys begin looking for a counselor.

Amen, Mike.

ASM1 - You've done Scouting proud, and taught your son a life-altering lesson. Congratulations on your victory, and good luck in the new troop.

Venturer2002 -

I understand what you are saying, and I am aware that sometimes patrols have activities without adults present. That is a great thing about this program, and one I wish was used more often in our troop.

The misunderstanding is semantical. I did not mean that adults must always be present, or that they are to tell boys what to do and how. Even if this behavior occurred on a boy-only event, it is still a bad thing and one the scouters ought to correct (in a properly discreet manner). I'd bet it's pretty blatant at troop functions, too, so the adults have an opportunity to observe and correct erroneous thinking. This would include that of the young ASM. That is supervision - the overseeing of how the group as a whole or in part functions.

I hope I have been more clear this time. I apologize for the confusion.

I am beginning to wonder where the scouters are whenever the boy leadership does this bossing based on rank. RHIP is not the BSA way! Boy-lead efforts must always be adult supervised.

The only "priveleges" I have seen include:

1) Age-based special programs, like learning SCUBA,

2) Rewards given to scouts who go the extra mile in service. This is often a solo effort,

3) The annual Moose Lodge dinner, which our Life and above serve. They get a fine prime rib dinner out of it.

Buster Brown's were around in the sixties also. That was the only brand my mother would buy us. I wore a black pair of Mary Jane's style to school, and red Keds to play in after.

As far as today - I bought my son a pair of black dress-style shoes at Kmart for around $10 to wear to Scouts and church. (I also recall the recommendation for dark shoes, sctmom.) If they wear out before he outgrows them, I'll be surprised. Who cares if they're cheap man-made uppers? It looks better than all those funky looking shoes so many wear, in my opinion. We also contend with various beach shoes down here.

As a fellow hands-on learner, I've a couple of suggestions that I've used successfully:

1) Once your son gets a bluecard, make a copy of the MB worksheet for that MB off of meritbadge.com. This is something he can usually work on at home, and is something concrete he can refer to when he speaks with his counselor.

2) On occasions where I end up teaching something, I often employ a "round robin" type of method. This works real well with the lower ranks advancements and some MBs like first aid. (and has the bonus of relieving the older scouts from feeling like babysitters.) Set up different stations that teach different skills, each manned by scouters/parent volunteers. Each patrol visits each station, for a limited time, to work on the skill. Can even make this a competition. (I've even used this with adults with great results.)

If you think this would work in your troop, perhaps you could suggest it to the SM or whoever may teach next. (or the SPL...) Just FWIW...

#6 goes back to #3 also. Or maybe it's just lack of imagination...

"War" Story: We had two 2nd year Webelos dens when my son was a Webelos. The leadership got together and did something rather innovative, I thought. (yes, I'm praising myself here also. Brag, brag, brag...) We drew from our strengths, and combined our program. One leader was good at administration and advancement, another good at outdoor stuff, another good at field trips, etc. So we used those talents and made the 2nd year program the best they ever had. Frequently we combined for weekly meetings. We used parent and other resources to help teach our boys new things. All earned the Arrow of Light. Many earned all the activity badges, almost all the belt loops (it take 2 belts), learned a lot of new stuff and had a blast. Of the 11 boys only one didn't cross over due to an unresolvable conflict with troop meeting times. 5 of the remaining are heading for Eagle.

Of course, the pack leadership was 100% trained, some with advanced training. It also helped to have an Eagle for a leader (Mr. "Outdoor Stuff"). Maybe I'm just full of our success, but it seems to me there really isn't an excuse for a poor Webelos program, whether you're rural or urban. This is the time to get them excited about Boy Scouts.

For the rest, I agree with Mike Long. Although #5 and #7 are boy problems. It is a boy-led program. Perhaps the scouts need to do some investigation into what kinds of adventure and interesting things there are to do in their area.

I'm with you all the way, Rooster7!

I believe that money (& how it is spent) has a lot to do with the lack of real justice. Many folks do not want to have taxes raised to fund prisons, court expenses, etc. Nor does the existing bureaucracy (sp?) want to undergo a much-needed overhaul on how they spend taxpayer funds. So we are stuck with criminals out on the streets that shouldn't be. Also, no-one wants a prison near them, driving down their property values, etc. So let's wrap the lack of funds up in a nice warm blanket called "loving tolerance" and set the wolves out to hunt our children.

I think the average person is outraged by what is happening to children in America, but not enough yet to do much about it - not even vote to the proactive politicians into office and get the vacuous, sophisticated lame-os out.

We live in the country, and we have a pedophile living in our neighborhood. He likes to peep in windows at night. The police won't do anything because "he's served his time, and (the police) haven't caught him doing anything". We have seen evidence that he's been by our house, cigarette butts and beer trash. (we don't do either) We noticed that the man would walk from the back of our 5-acre plot to get onto our street. After all the support from the police - they offered to increase patrols in our neighborhood, but we couldn't tell any difference - my husband finally had enough. He sat out one night with our huge dog and waited for the guy. Then he let the dog loose, and she chased him for a block or more. Never saw evidence of him by our property again. I hope he's moved away.

When 9/11 happened, everyone wore patriotic ribbons as a remembrance. Why not do this for your pack meeting? Have a great color guard opening, perhaps a moment of silence or an appropriate reading. There a many good ones about the effects of that day on all of us. Then go on with the usual. As you say, don't linger over it. That would be maudlin.

It has been my understanding (as the assistant advancement chair) that when a boy reaches Life, those Eagle required badges in g and j that are extra are indeed counted as electives. We tell our boys that when the mandatory badges are earned to not overlook the other three for electives.

SagerScout - I have also observed the same as you. We have boys in our troop who already have the bronze palm MBs done while they are still Star. Some just love doing MB work!

Forgot to add that there are several free legal services that address such issues. Two that I recall are the Alliance Defense Fund and the Christian Legal Society. They both have web sites. Must observe that if there weren't that many conflicts between duty to God and duty to country, these services wouldn't exist.

I do have an actual event in the US to offer as an example. In the early 1990's ('93, '94?), a group of high school students were arrested for praying at their school flagpole before the start of school in mid-September. The principal had called the police to do this because he believed that separation of church and state meant no praying by anyone whatsoever. He was in violation of these students' rights, the case was dismissed in court, and the principal was acquainted with students' rights as pertains to religious freedom and student-led functions. Did the students know how the principal felt about their function (See You At The Pole)? Yes, and they followed their conviction to pray anyway.

Hope this is the type of example you were looking for.

Hang in there, you feel at home in no time.

I deliberately backed off going camping with the boys when my son moved up to Boy Scouts. (After having been Cub and Webelos leader) I didn't want him relying on me too much, or (worse) me butting in too often. Since he (& I) has done so well, I am considering doing some of the outdoor stuff again, which I love to do.

Consider this your honeymoon period. Be available, participate where you can as I read you are doing. Everything you wish will come your way eventually.

I have been reading this thread with great interest. My brother has a nephew who acts very like this troubled boy: killing small animals for fun, beating on his little sister, etc. The mother is a good person, the dad a tad weird. Anyway, mom takes son to shrink. Shrink advises three things: 1) the whole family goes to church together - failed to do so because dad is an atheist; 2) boy must quit martial arts lessons and join a team sport; 3) boy must join Scouts and actively participate. I can't really say what the family has done about the last two requirements. I found it interesting that the counselor ordered scouting as part of therapy. Frankly, the boy frightens most of the family. We see another sociopath growing up. I am curious if the boy in this thread has a similar history outside of Scouts, and if he is in any kind of therapy. He and his family all need it desperately. I'd go for suspension as a first option were I on the committee involved, for whatever my vote counts for.

I just can't resist being nitpicky here.

yaworski - wool is a natural fiber, unlike synthetics.

supermom - girl scouts have a trefoil, boy scouts have a fleur-de-lis.

Our troop allows personal electronics for long trips only. They are not allowed at meetings, activities, campouts, summer camp, etc. Once they arrive at their destination, the devices are to be put away or be confiscated for the duration of the event.

I have to agree with SagerScout. If a loved one is scared bloodless to be caught with a drug habit, even alcohol, they can hide it successfully. I have a daughter,who in high school, did an excellent job of deception. I'm neither blind, nor stupid, nor untrained and still I didn't know until she told me herself about the drugs and the alcohol.

Also, is their uniform correctly worn? Do they know what the various parts stand for? What special awards have they earned, or are wearing? What MBs do they believe most benefitted them, or will be of most benefit in life? These as well as the above have been asked at our Eagle BORs.

Our troop has done the above with great success, and total accuracy. Our experience has been that reporters that do come to our activities often get their facts screwed up. We do what eisely and frankj have suggested. It works!

Couple of vignettes -

1)Our coucil's summer camp theme this year was "Real Men Don't Need AC". Thanks ArchWahl, been there too every year.

2)My father tells of his first winter campout when he was a Tenderfoot back in the late 30's. His family was too poor for camping equipment, so he put together what he could, improvised the rest, made a bedroll and off he went. His first lesson was bedrolls aren't warm enough for January nights in Indiana. Fortunately, those scouts who had good bags sandwiched the boys who didn't and kept them warm every night. (There were a lot of poor boys back then) It made a tremendous impact on my dad, and I believe has affected his life ever since.

I began camping as a GS when I was in third grade (I was a Junior Scout). It was weekend camping at established scout camps, not wilderness stuff. I heard Brownies also camped out some, but I couldn't join them due to a lack of B troop in my area.

While we did crafty stuff at meetings that was certainly not all we did, nor even the bulk of it. Each month we had a theme and did activities that went along with that theme. Usually we had earned a new badge by the end of the month.

Now, I can't say what things are like in girl scouting nowadays (this was almost 40 years ago), but I don't believe GS would regress to only crafts in meetings. I am wondering if your daughter's leaders have been trained? Would they welcome suggestions for meetings from the girls or their parents?

In my 10 years as a Girl Scout, I changed troops every year. I say this so you realize that I just didn't have exceptional leaders in one locality. I did belong to one troop that did an awful lot of crafts, but they made up for the sameness of the meetings by selling these crafts to fund a trip to Our Chalet to ski.

I have been trained in Cub Scouting, but am still waiting for the Boy Scout training. It's been over a year, and it keeps getting cancelled. I am a commitee member and a MB counselor.

I do try to keep up with the program, though. I have read every manual my son ever brought home - Tiger thru Boy Scout (including the field book and OA member manuals) from cover to cover, several times each. This forum and other websites are also instructive. I don't know how to get hold of other printed material.

A Whine - it gets frustrating to have training cancelled so often for the "lesser positions". Our SM, who recently took over the training stuff in our District, half-jokingly suggested I go for a District level job so I could finally get my training in.

Another Whine - District keeps losing the MB counselors paperwork. No-one knows who counsels what outside of their own troops. We have a new man now who just took over coordinating this aspect (I forget the official title). He seems pretty capable, but once again I have to fill out all the forms, including that of adult leader application (the 4th time in 2 years)!

Perhaps I should serve some cheese w/all the whine I'm pouring out.

Oops! I misread OGE's post re- Den Chiefing. Please disregard that part of my comment. Sorry!

While our troop does not count Den Chief for service hours (it is a troop position), it does count CS Day Camp Counseling. They also accept working in Vacation Bible School, band camp assistance, etc., as long as the boy gets prior approval. Our boys really look forward every year to "Work Party Weekend", where they help the local Girl Scouts clean up their camp for summer. Their reward for all their hard work is not only credit hours but a dance put on by the girls. What more could a guy ask for? The OA fellows do camp cleanup for our Council before and after summer camp. (No service hours credited - it's the honor and duty of the OA members) The really neat thing in my opinion is that our Life Scouts are very active in all these areas still, when they can't gain any advancement credit. Obviously they must enjoy it, and all that previous service hour credit gaining had an excellent effect.

I can think of a few examples for NJCubScouter, but not that exist yet in our country. In communist countries, and some other ones, the practice of religion (or certain religions) is outlawed. For generations people in those countries have been imprisoned, beaten and killed for practicing their religion. If such became a reality in the US, I expect to be crowding a jail cell or cemetery somewhere.