RichardB

Couple of questions for deliberation:  

How many of you that want to be "in the know" are signed up for a weekly Scoutingwire feed?   https://scoutingwire.org/ Are you promoting that?  

Does you council have a newsletter?  Do you get that?   Any articles in there on changes?   

Do you get Scouting Magazine 6 times a year?   Do you read it?    

Do you subscribe to Bryan's Blog?  

Do you really want an email and a dead tree letter?  @Hawkwin

Richard

Bonus Question:  did you know the Program Hazard Analysis http://scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-009.pdf narrative was based on management of change document:  http://scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/doc/Narrative.doc?

2 hours ago, MattR said:

I think the discussion should be about what the program is, from the viewpoint of the BSA. A lot of the things that seem odd to me make a lot more sense if the focus is on advancement.

Advancement is a method of Scouting.  

Perhaps the best and most current content on running the program (that is safety related) is found here:   https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss07/

I'd specifically call out the following excerpts, but of course, please review all.  

"The Boy Scouts of America’s Charter and Bylaws, Rules and Regulations, policies, and program guidelines help provide a safe and consistent program. Council and unit charters as well as individual registration are conditioned upon adherence to those requirements."

"Activity Planning and Risk Assessment

No organization, including the Boy Scouts of America, can anticipate every possible activity that could be conducted as part of a unit, district, or council event. As such, it is neither the intent nor the desire of the BSA to provide specific guidance on subjects that are not core to the program or part of our literature.

For those activities that support the values of the Boy Scouts of America, there are several tools available for participants that will help them plan for a fun and safe tour, activity, or event. Good planning and preparedness prior to executing the activity is key to success. This guide is one of those tools. "

8 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

To me, prohibitions without room for exception/lienency are zero tolerance rules.

A couple of questions: 

• Is your indictment of the these rules (please be specific so we can what "rules" are in play) that they are unclear without exception or that you just disagree them and they should have exceptions for (you, your unit, your situation, etc.).
• What does the hive mind think about rules with exceptions from the hypothetical point of view that perhaps they could develop into a culture that folks think they are acceptable to bend or break those exceptions at will.  
• Does your council not respond to your questions or do you post the contact for the NSC because you didn't like the answers you got, something in the FAQ's wasn't clear?  Asking for a friend.      

On 7/6/2018 at 11:40 AM, MattR said:

Summer camps used to fire off a cannon with a blank to wake everyone up, until some fool decided to stand right in front of the cannon and the wad killed him.

Not quite right.   https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/face/stateface/or/03or020.html

I'd also suggest the group puruse the incident reviews, perhaps you have a use for reviewing these, and they make a case at times of why it is important to follow the program materials.     https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/incident-report/incident-reviews/  

As to the call for training, why would any organization develop a training program for something that isn't part of the program?   And exactly what does the group think it takes to make a 5 min training program for electric screwdrivers?   

Last I checked there were not any requirements to use laser tag equipment - thus not the program of the BSA.  

Discuss.  

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

What made the laser tag restriction a really big deal was that Laser tag was a very popular scout activity when the rule came out in the mid 90s. 

Et al, it's 2018, the 90's were a long time ago.    Lots of other ways to bond found in the actual literature, no need to make it up as you go and put kids and yourself at risk.  

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss07/  - suggest you all review, it's got some new material and presented in a different format.    Even includes a safety moment to share on why somethings need to be unauthorized.    

RichardB 

15 hours ago, shortridge said:

According to Scouting, the rules were developed by @RichardB’s team:

BSA national health and safety guru Richard Bourlon and his team of volunteers and professionals created these simple, clear guidelines to align the BSA with other youth-serving and service organizations.

“Habitat for Humanity gave us great feedback on their experiences” with youth-work restrictions, Bourlon tells me. He also consulted the U.S. Department of Labor.

In other words, these guidelines didn’t come out of thin air. They’re the work of hours of analysis meant to prevent injuries.

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/03/09/check-the-bsas-tool-use-policy-before-your-next-service-project/

 

Richard, not to put you on the spot, but do you have insight into this particular rule?

Happy Monday, 

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/01/15/whats-that-age-again-a-complete-guide-to-when-scouts-can-do-what/

The links in the blog are out of date since the transfer of the www.scouting.org website, but this pretty much sums it up:  "...The BSA’s Health and Safety team developed the age- and rank-appropriate guidelines based on the mental, physical, emotional and social maturity of Boy Scouts of America youth members..."

The updated info can be found here:  https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/toc/

So couple of discussion items: 

What requirements are there for youth to use wheelbarrows or wagons?  Unaware of any but please let me know.  

What risks would be present for younger scouts in the use of wheelbarrows or wagons?  

Discuss.  

2 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

My GS/CS daughter won one the national competitions associated with this collaboration last week. She will get a prize package from The North Face worth up to $500.

 

https://www.girlscouts.org/en/our-program/ways-to-participate/camp-and-outdoors/gs-outdoors.html

Nice page, it's a shame that several of the photos illustrate putting kids at risk, and probably not healthy risks.  The horse ones in particular, shorts, tennis shoes in the stirrup, no helmet.   

So, what is the GTSS:  

All participants in official Scouting activities should become familiar with the Guide to Safe Scouting, applicable program literature or manuals, and be aware of state or local government regulations that supersede Boy Scouts of America practices, policies, and guidelines. The Guide to Safe Scouting is an overview of Scouting policies and procedures gleaned from a variety of sources. For some items, the policy statements are complete. Unit leaders are expected to review the additional reference material cited prior to conducting such activities.

In situations not specifically covered in this guide, activity planners should evaluate the risk or potential risk of harm, and respond with action plans based on common sense, community standards, the Boy Scout motto, and safety policies and practices commonly prescribed for the activity by experienced providers and practitioners.

Place to Start - Council Training Committee - Council Aquatics Committee.    Either would be the ones setting up a class locally.    

14 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

@glider90

 

We even had a parent who created some sort of air cannon that launched candy 40 feet in the air.  Not sure what rules that falls under (he operates it himself and the scouts are down a hill ~30 yards away) but it is a blast watching candy shrapnel rain down on our scouts.

Not a program of the BSA.   I'd consider that an prohibited activity.    

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-055_WaterBottleRockets.pdf

And - model rockets

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-055_Rocket Safety_LOW.pdf or 

https://www.youthrules.gov/

17 hours ago, gifco147 said:

Greetings!

I am looking for some input from the group. I am the Health and Safety Officer for one of our Council Camps. We are seeing a steady increase in the number of adult leaders who rely on CPAP, and we have tried several different options to meet their medical needs. Some of our sites are close enough to run a long extension cord, but many are not. We have tried battery boxes with some success, but they are heavy and expensive. During our busiest sessions, demand surpasses availability. 

So,....

What are your camps doing to meet this need?

(Please note that I am talking about power for medical devices only, not power for charging other electronics)

Assuming this is in a BSA council great topic for 1) your council ERM Committee and 2) your council Health Supervisor (who should be the one to sign off on this protocol)

On a more general note, extension cords should not be a permanent solution.   In most states that would not meet code.   For outdoor wiring solutions, a discussion with the Camps maintenance staff / Ranger and local AHJ about the use of circus wiring if you have to have cords is a typical choice.     

The other alternative would be to provide a designated area for said adults, perhaps outside of normal locations.  This might limit their effectivness as supervision for youth.   

He appears to have failed in a safe environment, nothing soap and water won't fix.  The Glasses were cracked before he arrived at an official scouting activity, thus no incident report.  

He is smiling, and will be asking two friends to join the Den this week.       

RichardB

Good approach to the ongoing issues we face, yet does not suggest giving up.  Does stress that we on the ground level have the opportunity to make it better.  Also totally agree with his notes on the OA.

 

 

http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/20/whats-wrong-boy-scouts-goes-deeper-social-issues-cowardice/#.Weo1OC152nI.facebook

Not sure how too much safety is even involved.  Aside from quite a few inaccurate statements, the article advocates a "..well we have a leader who made it up and called it scouting once apon a time and we should be able to do it.." theme.    

Some things are just not needed to develop character, citizenship, etc.

Pick up a Scout Handbook, do what is in there with youth and you should be good.  

The Cub Scout program changed, the adult training changed to meet the needs of more outdoor experiences - not seeing how an actual camp experience as part of a training for overnight camping is out of line.   Plus this tags the thread.  

Please keep them under 60".   

1) what program are you running?  Specifically, what book are you in and what page are you on becuase I'm totally unfamiliar with such an event.  

The Cub Scout program has limited camping oppourtunities.  Unless this is Council run family camp, it's not the program of the BSA by your information offered.  By design there is not individual cub camping experience.  The only other experience is a Pack Overnighter with provisions for Webelos to Den Camp.  

2) if this is an attempt to run a Cub Scouting program - has the council approved it?  

Multiple packs getting together on there own also isn't a part of the program outside of Council / District organized events.  

Please run the Cub Program as designed.  

Folks, it's 2017.   Not 1937 or 1996.   The program of the BSA is updated from time to time.    The OP has been asked and answered, if YOU would like to build these giant devices, feel free to do so, but please don't call it Scouting.   

 Eagle dude, please enlighten me I'm interested to know where you found such designs in the program of the BSA?   Really, not joking - I'd like to know.   

Now your examples appear to be from accross the pond.  And several, have some pretty significant fall exposure.   Opinion, they wouldn't have made it past a risk assessment by a competent or qualified group.  If your not familiar, Scouting in the UK requires a written risk assessment for all activities.    In some parts of the US those structures could be considered amusement devices, many of which would require state licensing and inspection.  Not sure they would pass that test either.  

I'd also wonder where did all that base material come from.  Most camps I'm familiar with really wouldn't want folks choping down trees to make a pioneer project each week from their natural resources.   

Finally, the folks gearing up for the WSJ have some great risk assessment tools and staff who know how to use them.  Very confident there is a plan.      

Not sure what the issue is.   Pioneering is primarily a merit badge, designed for a scout (most are targeted at a 12 year old) to experience.   Not sure how setting up a training program is going to drive a need to go higher, bigger, etc.   High COPE elements by design need to meet ACCT standards for design, installation and operations.  Asking laymen to do something like this is actively discouraged.    Please see the COPE section of the GTSS.  

And if you would like to review the risk assessment documentation (found in 680-009 http://scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-009.pdfor 680-026 http://www.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-026.pdf) on your own you will also find out that relying on training and procedures is low on the hierachy of controls.   Wouldn't really be applicable to the OP vision of success that would be training.           

Accessible for families does not equal family camping.    

Interesting, since there is no co-ed proposal being discussed.   There is however an discussion on making Scouting accessable for families.     

I'd think that if you were ready for retirement you might want something a little different, like a chief or a roadmaster, but that's just me.  Would make a nice camp hopper for the commissioner.