resqman

CERT

http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/

CERT

http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/

Scouting is about preparing. Often we will never see the results of the time and effort we invest in the scouts.

I have never seen or communicated with my adult leaders from 35+ years ago but their words, actions, and wisdom rule my actions every day. Consider yourself very lucky that one of the scouts you had contact with was able to thank you for effort.

Parent, "What do I have to do to get my boy to advance to the next rank?"

Son's flight was scheduled to be wheels up at 7am this morning on thier way to Philmont. Hits the trail 7/2. I am so jealous.

Scoutmaster mounts one of the spoof merit badges on a wood plaque and awards at COH. Finger whittling MB, Incinderary Device MB, etc.

Some go to scouts and some to scouters depending.

Troop has a rule: No poptarts, hotdogs, or ramin noodles. Well, ramin noodles are allowed if there are a compoent of a meal but not the only item.

PLC sets a theme for Saturday evening meal. Mexican, Asian, Seafood, Box Oven Cooking, at least one item in Dutch Oven except dessert, etc. Patrol competition is fierce with SM/ASMs being served a presentation plate from each patrol and then judged. Morning meals are cooked. The PLC may encourage a quick meal (oatmeal, grits, granola bars & fruit) on one morning to provide enough time to complete the activity of the day or to leave in time for some specific reason.

Friday evening meals are about 50/50 bag lunches vs. cooked. It depends on the travel time. Local trips are must cook Friday nite meals where distant trips are bag lunches.

We have had weekends where all patrols are given the same ingrediants but differing cooking methods. All recieve the same protein, starch, vegtables, and spices but each patrol is only provided one cooking method: a box oven, a dutch oven, a stove, a turkey fryer. All patrols are provided receipes that will work with their cooking method but encouraged to free lance. The patrols get to sample the same food prepared in different methods.

Great pride is taken in cooking and eating well. We had a glutten free scout join and the menus were modified to meet the scouts needs. We have had backpacking weekends where all food had to be shelf stable without refrigeration/coolers. Don't have to backpack to have backpacking meals.

Adults can place a single limit on the PLC. Choose a theme, cooking style, or some requirement for ONE meal during the weekend. A suggestion list of type of limitiations is provided to help fuel the thought process for the scouts. The PLC chooses the limitation and lets the scouts go from there. Once the scouts start cooking, the process feeds itself.

The adults eat as a patrol. We are given the same budget and other limitations that the scouts are. We show by example that food does not have to be be boring or repetative. We prep, cook, and clean as a patrol within all the same constraints at the scouts. Lead by example.

The hardest lesson for the scouts to learn is there is a third speed when cooking besides off and high. Everything cooks much better on medium. Growling stomachs and microwaves have to be trained to wait for the food to cook at its own pace.

Is the rank of Eagle designating the person as the next world class wilderness guru or the next world leader?

I think there is a a dicotomy between what people both inside and outside of scouting believe an Eagle Scout is or is not. Discussion on these forums often centers around boy leadership, taking responsibility and similar topics. Ethics and morality occasionally are debated. For lack of better term, technical outdoor skills are presumed to be learned and practiced through an ongoing outdoor program.

I have 2 sons. One started as a wolf and lacks his project to complete the rank of Eagle. The other started at age 15 and "Eagled" in 3 yrs while playing sports on both the school and league teams. The one son is in scouting for the fun and enjoyment. He is an exceptional outdoorsman, with good knot & lashing, first aid, cooking, camping, and leadership skills. He will earn Eagle in time but it is not and has not been the driving force for him to be in scouting. I feel confident that he would meet the standards of almost anyone for an Eagle Scout.

The other son had little interest in the outdoors and scouting. He was an athelete first and foremost. He came to the program late and worked the program with a vengenance with a goal in mind... rank of Eagle. Prior to his actual EBOR he felt that Scouts was for losers and geeks. His response a week after his EBOR was he was going to require his kids to join scouting. His time in scouting was very different from his brothers. He meets other Eagle scouts everywhere he goes and is truely proud of his accomplishment.

Both sons will complete the same requirements in the same troop and come from the same household. Both are totally different Eagle Scouts with totally different skills and strengths. The journey was equally difficult for each boy.

The fix is to change the adult leadership. Hold the scouts in your troops to a standard. Have skills checks days or weeks after the skill is taught. Dont sign off unless they can actually perform the skill. Incorporate the skills into the program, not just as add ons but as the core of the program. Failure IS an option. Make sure they understand that they are expected to know the skills and continue to know the skills and they will happily make you proud of their progress.

Our troop rotates through 5-7 camps in and out of council as well as in and out of state within a 5 hr radius. So for most of the scouts from our troop attending, it is a new and different camp every summer. More experienced adult leaders may have been to the camp of the year but not likely. So every year it is a completely new experience for the adults and scouts. But at the same time, every summer camp is pretty much the same.

The current SM takes a day trip to the camp a couple of weeks before the troop attends to get the lay of the land. Of my gosh, our campsite is all slope and not a flat place in site, the tents all need new guy lines, the dining hall is so far we need to add 15 minutes just for the hike, etc.

This will be my 6th summer camp as an adult and the first repeat. Looking forward to the particular camp because I have a basic idea of what to expect and can show the guys a cool waterfall about a 30 minute hike away. Should be fun to see how things changed since last time.

So, no our troop does not send representation to camp Pre-meetings. We schedule a dedicated trip to the camp to get the details we think we may need. Otherwise we adopt the battle cry of Semper Gumby! Always flexible.

To me adult leadership in scouting is very much like parenting. You have to set up boundaries and rules. You have to be the heavy. You have to back off and let the lads ask questions without fear, fail and learn from teh failure, but keep them safe.

I think an adult leader must be approachable. That means different things to different people. If the scouts are afraid to ask for help or advice, he is not appoachable. At the same time, the SM must be able to draw the line and enforce rules. He earns respect by acting fairly and within the acknowledged rules.

Parents want to feel that the SM has the lads safety as priorty 1. Second is probably making advancement opportunites available.

As a peer I want the SM to exemplify the ultimate Scout. Lives by the 12 points of the law, the oath, motto, slogan, etc. Is technically compentent in the outdoors. Is willing and regularly delegates tasks. Is friendly and approachable. One who is conversant in G2SS and knows when the rules should be bent.

As a boy, my SM was married but childless. He was fair but stern. He held us to a high standard and expected us to strive towards meeting the standard. The SM in my current troop has two sons who have aged out of the program. He does not have to ignore or favor his sons. He has good outdoor skills but spends his time being a friend more than a skills instructor to the lads. He is quick to point out teaching moments when things go well as well as haywire.

In the troop I serve, the adults are held to the same rules and standards as the scouts with 2 exceptions. We get to use our phones and we set our own bedtime.

How invovled during the regular year are these Scouts? Do they go camping reqularly?

We have 1st yrs "stuck" in first year camp programs that would rather be taking MB classes. We have boys that don't like using the latrine. Don't like the camp food. Don't like having to get dressed with a stranger(tent mate) in their tent. They don't like swimming in the dark water of a lake filled with mysterious icky things. There are number of concerns for 11 yr olds that adults never consider.

Those who are active in the regular program, seem to enjoy summer camp. The scouts who have been to summer camp 3-4-5 times get bored and are looking for High Adventure.

11 yr olds don't think about a "free" week of camp. Most 11 yr olds don't have any money for anything. Adults pay for everything so everything is free to them. Why would I want to sleep in a hot tent filled with bugs with a stranger for a week and eat lousy food. I can stay home and eat moms cooking and play video games. Sleep late and stay up late. Stupid suckers going to camp...

We have 1 SM and about 6-8 ASMs. We have permission slips turned in at least 1 week but preferrably 2 weeks before a trip. We count heads. If not enough drivers, we send out email to the troop dist list requesting more drivers. So far no problems. Been tight once or twice waiting to the last minute.

Last month was more difficult because we had two trips to different parts of the state the same weekend. We needed a miniumn of 4 uniformed adults with YPT. We had 5 so had enough leaders and vehicles.

I have been a good swimmer most of my life. We have been taking our sons to the ocean, lakes, rivers and pools all their lifes. We took our then 6-7 year old white water rafting. I was a scout lifeguard and nationally certified Swiftwater Rescue Technican. I forget that other people cannot swim or are poor swimmers.

I usually attend the troop swim checks at the pool before camp. I am more than happy to go first and then act as lifeguard for the rest. Usually teach reach, throw, row, go as well as ring bouy toss for the 1st years who need it for 2nd class once they have completed their swim checks.

We only usually have 1 or at most 2 that are beginners. Cant remember any non-swimmers in 5 years. Usually the problem is they sprint thinking its a race and run of juice before they finish.

I remember as a lad jumping in the dark lake water was very different from the clear pool water. There were invisible things in the water lurking just waiting to get me. I think the fear of the unknown is more of an issue than their swimming ability. It is a confidence thing.

The PLC declares a cooking theme for Saturday nights meal during campouts. It is declared a couple of weeks before the campout so menu planning can meet the theme.

We were sea kayaking on the coast so the theme was seafood. One patrol cooked Chicken and Corn served in a Coconut shell. C-food.

I want to call it Bow-dee but the staff pronounces it Bah-dee. Renamed after some fella who gave a pile of money.

If you ask the camp, it was never offically named Bonner, it was called Bonner by convention since Senator Bonner gave all the land for the camp. A couple of years ago Mr. Boddie gave a pile of money to upgrade the camp and so they offically named the camp after Boddie.

Been an ASM for 5-6 years. Last weekend the troop split for a campout weekend. 8 boys and 3 adults backpacked couple days on the AT in prepartion for Philmont. My son is the crew leader and volunteered to be grubmaster for this trip. He and I went shopping for the food. I assisted him in the actual repackaging of the food but he did all the planning and most of the actual work. I dropped him off with the Philmont crew, gave him a hug and drove away.

The other part of the troop took 6 boys and 2 adults to a different location for an 18 mile mtn biking trip. We shared a campsite barely large enough for 2 picnic tables and 4 tents. The boys cooked as a patrol on 1 picnic table while I and the other adult shared a meal on the adjoining picnic table. It took all 6 boys to cook their meals. It took 1 adult 1/4 of the time and effort with less mess and a more attractive result.

Sitting next to their table and being forced to watch the patrol struggle through preparing, cooking, eating and cleaning was extremely frustrating. It helped me to realize how much better it is for both the boys and leaders when we are seperated by at least 50 feet.

Normally the adults cook and eat as a patrol seperated by at least 50 feet from the lads. Once they have declared they are all finished, we send a representative to stroll by the area to ensure that food is not left out to spoil or attract animals. We then task the SPL with ensuring sufficent cleanup to prevent either problem. We would prefer a spotless cleanup but accept/tolerate a minimally safe cleanup.

I had the experience of a typical parent of facilitaing my scout in his grubmaster duties and dropping him off to go on a camping trip under troop supervision while staying behind wondering if all will go well. The same weekend I had the ASM experience of herding scouts as well as being in the very center of their patrol chaos due to limited camping space. 20 additional feet of space in the campsite would have made a huge difference.

Both the scoutmaster and I would look over and move a grease soaked papertowel away from the stove or similar action. Then we would see some other condition that we would feel obligated to correct. Several times I had to get up and walk away to prevent interfereing with the patrol dynamics. Both the scoutmaster and I tried valently to not get dragged into the patrol. Even with are years of scouting experience, the parent/adult reaction of solving problems was a difficult force to battle.

While Kudu exposes 300 feet, often as little as 50 feet is enough to provide the necessary buffer.

The two pieces of gear that have made the most difference in my camping are: LED headlight and Thermorest.

Taking the flashlight out of my hand and putting on my head was the smartest thing ever. Except maybe that they use LED bulbs instead of incandescent so the batteries last for a year instead of a weekend.

An air matterus that is insulated and stays inflated. Keeps the ground from digging into my hips and allowing me to get a decent nights sleep so I am able to funtion the next day. Thermorest are the best ever.

I have lots of camping toys and gadgets that are fun, novel, or at least useful but if I left them home would not make or break a trip. The two above are essential.

The issue to me is not gender specific but parent specific. Parents are often very used to caring for their children and doing many things for them that the youths could be doing for themselves.

I taught our children to sort laundry by color as soon as they could, maybe age 5? Then they progressed to carrying the baskets to the laundry room. They were taught how to pour in the soap, turn on the machine, move the washed to the dryer, etc. By age 10, they were doing the family laundry.

Parents on campouts forget that it is BOY scouting. Whenever we get new parents into the troop, we explain that they cannot correct or parent they own son. If they have a concern about their son's activities, they are to request a different adult to intervene. Often we ask the SPL to intervene. It takes a while for the parents to adapt.

Our troop policy is that adults are basically there for safety. The scouts should be doing absoultely everything. Adults set up their own tents away from the troop. The adults cook, prepare and eat their food seperate from the scouts. We may send an adult around during meal times just to look over the lads shoulders and ask leading questions.

Webelos and Cub scouts are a different animal from Boy Scouts. Cubs are cartered to. Webelos should be very involved and doing much or most of the work with adult input. Webelos are transitioning from catered Cub Scouts to basically all Boy involvement with little or no adult involvment.

Females tend to be more picky about cleaniness and the idea of unsafe activities. Climbing trees, use of knifes, etc. Males tend to expect the scouts to push the boundaries and try out new activities. We expect the SPL and PLs to monitor activities. If they do not take adequate steps, the adults will step in to ensure safety.

Our troop holds a monthly cooking competition but not during troop meetings. It is held Sat evening meal during campouts. The theme is chosen during the PLC. Each patrol then chooses menus and buys food to meet the theme. The expense of the food becomes part of the campout expense. Scouts are given a flat budget of $4 per meal per scout for a weekend campout. If they choose to have oatmeal for breakfast and spend the balance on the evening meal, that helps to teach Thriftness.

Competetions have included meals of various ethnic ideas like Mexican, Asian, Italian as well as particular methods of cooking like at least one item must be made in a dutch oven other than dessert or one item must be cooked in a box oven.

Once the theme was Seafood. One patrol served Chicken and Corn in a Coconut shell. C-food.

We had one campout where each patrol was given ground beef. A table was set up with potatoes, rice, pasta, corn, canned veggies, canned tomatoes, Rotel, variety of canned and fresh fruits, bagels, tortillas, pita bread, italian bread, and a variety of flour, sugar, spices, and cooking oils.

Each patrol was allowed to choose one item from the table in round robin style until they had chosen all the ingredients they felt they needed. Patrol A might have gotten the rice so Patrol B was left with potatoes or pasta. They then developed a recipe and cooked something based on what they had "won" during the selection process. They voted this was their favorite method of all time.

Other times we have provided each patrol with similar ingredients but only provided them with certain cooking methods. Once they were given fish fillets, potatoes, onions, and a bread mix. One patrol was provided a turkey fryer and oil, one patrol a box oven, and one patrol an iron skillet and stove. They all had access to spices, seasonings, sugar, flour, and butter/oil/shortening. Receipe cards were provided but they could freelance if they preferred. The patrols shared their creations with each other so they could see what frying, baking or skillet cooking did to the same ingredients.

Several years ago the cooking skills were dismal. They have developed very good cooking skills and are quite adaptive. Other meals during the weekend are often less challenging but that is their choice.

During campouts the adults camp as a patrol meaning, in the same area and away from the scouts. We have a patrol box and cook meals as a patrol. We have a patrol name, Zulus, a banner we hang that says something along the lines of "Only one hour a week" We have patrol patches and some adults wear them, some don't.

I try to only wear a correct uniform and do not wear a patrol patch. I have 3 shirts, 3 pants, and 1 pair of shorts. I wear a full uniform to all functions, at all times during campouts, events, activities, etc. My goal is for the scouts to never see me in anything other than a correct full Class A uniform.

Boy Scouts is a youth program. Adults are a part and parcel of the program. Knots help show the history and involvement of the adult leader. Just like the other patches on the uniform, it documents the scouting resume of the wearer.

In 8 years as uniformed adult leader, only twice I can recall youth asking about the knots on my uniform. Once was last week. The NSP wanted to know why I had knots and the boys did not. I explained that Boy Scouts is a boy program and adults are not allowed to earn rank, that is only for the boys. But I am able to wear knots which show that I earned the AOL and Eagle while a lad. It also shows that I not only met the basic requirements to hold my various adult positions but went above the basic requirements and took additional training and led programs within my unit to provide a better program for the scouts. A $1 patch does not seem like too much recognition for the thousands of hours and dollars I spent to provide a full scouting program to not only my son but hundreds of other peoples sons.

Several of the scouts said they wished there was an Adult Scouts so the adults could have the same fun the boys did.

It based on the number of drivers we need to get all the scouts to the event. Usually we have the SM and 3-6 ASMs on a campout. Parents are strongly discouraged from attending.

The leaders act as a patrol. We have a grubmaster and cook and camp as a patrol. The Zulu patrol sets up its tents in a group away from the scouts. We use the same budget and cooking gear that is available to the scouts.

Last camping trip we split the attendees into 2 groups. One group of 3 adults and 8 scouts backpacked 20 miles in preparation for Philmont this summer. The remainder of 8 scouts and 4 adults stayed in base camp. Two adults were not needed to drive but one just joined as an ASM 1 month ago and attended to better learn the troop culture. The other attended to ensure we had adequate supervision since one adult was leaving partway thru the weekend.

Thanks for the link. $455 is little steep for me.

I used to hold a national swiftwater rescue technician certificate so it would be fun to renew old knowledge.

"I suppose if you choose a route with smooth, fairly level portages, you could lash everything to a golf cart and pull that along behind you."

Not sure if you understand BWCA. BWCA is just a series of lakes or ponds seperated by hills. If there are no hills, the lakes and ponds would run together into one giant lake/river. EVERY portage is up and over a hill. There is no such thing as a smooth, level portage. Where are you going to store this golf cart in a canoe between portages?

If you are concrned about damaging the track, carry it on the football field. Most portages are between 10 and 100 yards, not miles. It is not that any one portage is that bad, it is that they are frequent and overtop hills. One morning we had 10 portages between breakfast and lunch. It was not uncommon to have more than 10 portages in a single day.

A day is constant switching between paddling and portaging. We paddled lakes/ponds that were 100 yards long with a 30 yard portage and then do it again 3 more times. We had days where we paddled for 1/2 hr and then a portage of 40 feet. By midweek you learn to approach, dismount, load the packs on to scouts, lift canoes, and strike out to the next water. The canoes are placed back in the water, the packs stowed and you are off paddling again. It is constant activity all day long.

Before I went the idea of portaging did not sound like fun. Once there it was nice to break up the paddling with portages. Of course there were a few portages that taxed the entire crew due to length and elevation change.

My personal opinion is that 12 yr olds are too young. Mostly it is a physical limitation but I also don't think many 12 yr olds have the mental toughness to keep up with the constant physical work and stay happy.

Can you post additional information on costs, locations, etc.