RememberSchiff

Two is the Philmont minimum and four is the Philmont maximum. A council can up the minimum to 3 (or 4) as ours did when faced with adults failing their medical check upon arrival. IMO, it would be better that so-called 'pinnacle experiences" in scouting required no adults. We train our scouts that they are ready to plan and complete a Philmont trek with a patrol of just scouts, ditto Eagle project,...instead the BSA is going in the opposite direction.

Sort of. I encountered this when my son was the only one to sign-up for an out-of-state scout activity. He wanted to go and so we were a Troop of 2 and the question arose did I need a tour permit. No. A tour permit is not required for a parent solely acting as a parent. Current YP was required and I had health forms just in case.

Right guy or not? I find it interesting that both Deputy Scout Exec and Chief Operating Officer and the Assistant Scout Exec were stepped over. http://scoutingnewsroom.org/about-the-bsa/national-leadership/assistant-chief-scout-executive-council-operations/ - Gary Butler http://scoutingnewsroom.org/about-the-bsa/national-leadership/assistant-chief-scout-executive-development/ - Brad Farmer In this discussion, we could use an updated list of the job responsibilities of the Chief Scout Executive. My understanding is the CSE responsibilities are closer to a Chief yeoman than a ship captain (Executive Board). Another $0.02

“With inmates from the Barnstable County Correctional Facility in Bourne lending a hand, the Cape & Islands Council of Boy Scouts of America is preparing paperwork it now hopes will land it in the Guinness Book of World Records.†And there you have it, results from the Council’s annual Camporee, held this year at the Barnstable County Fairgrounds and attracting scouts from ages six to 20. Scores of them showed up from every town on the Cape and Islands: Cub and Boy Scouts (males) as well as Sea Scouts and Explorers (both genders). The current Guinness record, set two years ago by the BSA’s Boston Minuteman Council, was 320 feet. Like the one at the fairgrounds, it was an outdoor track. Barnstable BSA’s new record, now heading for consideration at Guinness headquarters: 676 feet, 11¾ inches. “So more than twice as long, a legitimate shattering,†observed county Sheriff Jim Cummings, whose office dispatched the crew of inmate track builders. “They broke it like Humpty Dumpty.†A standard track for most pinewood derbies, which are usually conducted indoors, is a mere 32 feet. The Cape & Islands record-setter travelled more than 20 times further than that! “Our thanks to the Sheriff Office for its support!†writes Mike Riley, chief executive of the Cape & Island Council. “We could not have done it without you.†Story and construction photos http://www.capecod.com/cape-wide-news/inmates-help-boy-scouts-break-world-record/

If you can find another troop(s) clearly using the patrol method. Observe their meetings, campouts, as much as you can.

De facto local option. Seems more are doing this without threat of charter or individual memberships being revoked.

Times change. Maybe the BSA program will change towards STEM as more of our members have a background, confidence, and interest in STEM. At a recent troop meeting (plan was knife and ax), about 1/3 remembered to bring their knife but they all remembered their smartphone. Calling Bill Nye? My 1 bitcoin,

Half of my last post is missing...try again Back to OP (sorry skeptic for sidetrack), how old is he? Found this background (forget the news media, rely on scout banquet pamphlets ) http://birdvilletroop186.org/history/eagles/pdf/2009-03-07%20Eagle%20Banquet%20Program.pdf "Mike Surbaugh, became Scout Executive of the Greater Pittsburgh Council, Boy Scouts of America, on September 1, 2007, succeeding Robert A. “Alf†Tuggle, who was promoted to Southern Region Director. Mike is an Eagle Scout from Troop 360, Bethel Park, Pennsylvania, and is a graduate of West Virginia’s Salem College. He holds a degree in non-profit administration. Mike served on several summer camp staffs for 16 years, serving in Scoutcraft, as Aquatics Director, and as Camp Director. His love of the outdoors was nurtured while serving on the Camp Tionesta and Camp Anawanna staffs A career Scouter, Mike began his professional career as a district executive in Jacksonville, Florida, and served Boy Scout Councils in Syracuse, New York, and Minneapolis, Minnesota, in various roles. Prior to joining the Greater Pittsburgh Council, Mike served as Scout Executive for the Sioux Council in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and the Bay Lakes Council in Appleton, Wisconsin, a council that serves 40,000 youths from 200 communities in 22 counties in Northeastern Wisconsin and Michigan’s Upper Peninsula. While serving the Bay Lakes Council, in October of 2005, Mr. Surbaugh personally delivered about $30,000 in equipment and tools donated by local Wisconsin communities to the Pine Burr Area Council’s Camp Tiak in Wiggins, Mississippi, a camp ravaged by a direct hit from Hurricane Katrina. He found the camp in ruins, with its remnants “haphazardly scattered like a child’s game of pick-up sticksâ€, in his words. Then, in December, he led a team of about 114 volunteers from the Bay Lakes Council who, armed with hammers, saws, and a bulldozer, helped clean up and rebuild the camp. Their visit coincided with a winter camp for the Pine Burr Area Council’s younger Scouts and leadership training for its older Scouts, and some of the Bay Lakes Council’s older Scouts who serve as summer camp merit badge counselors helped instruct Mississippi Scouts in pioneering, camping, and first aid during their stay. Along with the Wisconsin volunteers, nearly 160 local Scouts attended the winter camp, which officials had predicted would never happen. It was the first large activity held at Camp Tiak since Katrina. Now serving as Scout Executive of the Greater Pittsburgh Council, his is the highest professional position in the council, which serves more than 49,500 youths and involves 8,000 adult volunteers in Allegheny, Beaver, Washington and Greene counties, and portions of Westmoreland and Fayette counties. …"

In '69 when I trekked as a scout at Philmont, most patrols had just ONE adult and most scouts appeared in the15-16 yr old range. Though at least one adult (no 2-deep then) was required, we would have been fine without him . Oh he was very competent and an Eagle, but we were prepared. Today THREE adults required and scouts appear to be a year or two younger. Adventure lost. Unless older scouts are hanging around to complete Eagle, they are gone at high school. Older members lost. My item #1 local option, speaking for our unit, goodbye DRP and we would likely double our new young scouts. Keeping them is where item #2 helps. Another $0.02

no adults on patrol outings. On a similar line of thought, wouldn't it be great if a scout-led patrol could go to Philmont, summer camp, or even a district camporee without adults attached at the hip belt.

http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/7745-introducing-your-new-chief-scout/ <- Wayne Brock More was known about Brock from his WBtv Youtube videos. From that thread my comments May 2012 "In an interview with The Chronicle, Mr. Brock said he would focus on increasing the groups membership in the short time he has. What that does is put pressure on me to do it faster and not waste any time, he said. http://philanthropy....O-Makes/131942/ I hope so, here's some advice for your two year term; no extension if membership does not increase. 1. local CO option on "eligibility" for membership and uniform. 2. bring back the scout adventure - we educate them and trust them. Managed risk, no adult patrol outings, and wheelbarrows allowed. Add Eagle project option - solo patrol trek. My $0.02" Well membership did NOT increase but Wayne got a one year extension. Some progress on item 1. Backwards on item 2. Never heard of his replacement, but I offer the same advice. My $0.02

http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/ Kudu you are missed.

Some of our scouts are told not to wear shorts in winter. Some of our adults are told they are old enough to wear long pants.

Ah WBers...only a mother could love. Still if you don't like drinking your coffee alone, I guess they serve a purpose. We scouters are not passive; we are here to help scouts learn by succeeding themselves. Teach them the skills and step back and monitor safety. If they fail after that (allow them to fail if safety permits), either they learn from their mistakes or some more teaching by you or another is needed. Teaching and practice, repeat. Well done.

Hopefully the idea that each lodge bring firewood will be dropped or lodges themselves will just say NO. IMO using only local firewood needs to be added to LNT if it is not already! http://www.michigan.gov/mdard/0,4610,7-125-2390_18298_45067---,00.html "Buy firewood when you reach your destination and burn it all on site" Sorry to say but kiln wood can be infested, depending on process and location/storage after. My $0.02

Not me, I said Boy & Girls, 4-H, and YMCA. "Might be a reason their youth memberships are larger than BSA and continue to grow."

Might be a reason their youth memberships are learger than BSA and continue to grow. Another thought, what boy wants to dress like a middle-age man (need I post photos)? Maybe adults just wear regular clothes and some leader campaign hat (like old Lem there) or ball cap and then PLC determines unit uniform for scouts (well except make full necker required). Another $0.02

- The uniform is still optional. - The uniform method was the 8th method and not added until the 1980's. - A scout is expected to be a scout whether he is wearing his uniform or not, the Scout Oath and Law still applies. - As pointed out, National does not understand the importance or proper wear of the necker. One of my scouts had an interesting uniform idea: download all earned awards to a scout's smartphone/tablet for display as desired. No sewing, no cost, an electronic sash of sorts. Sounds radical but it may be the future. My $0.02

Maybe OA should first honor its own Native American roots, the Lenni-Lenape*, and then reach out to local tribes? * Treasure Island was in the land of the Lenni Lenape. My $0.02

1909 - British MI5 (home) Security Service established 1908 - BP publishes Scouting for Boys, Boy Scout movement begins 1910 - BP forms Girl Guides 1914-1918 WWI The Girl Guides were formed by Robert Baden-Powell in 1910. The movement was considered radical at first. In an age when skirts were ankle length and young ladies never ran, the idea of girls camping, hiking and the like did not go down well. Critics denounced "girl scouting" as a "mischievous new development", a "foolish and pernicious movement" and an "idiotic sport". But, determined to show they could beat the boys at their own game, these fledgling Guides threw themselves into the new movement. By 1912 badges on offer included air mechanic, cyclist, electrician, sailor, telegraph operator and even tailor. They were 300,000-strong by the start of the First World War. Government departments began contacting the Girl Guides and the Boy Scouts, seeking teenagers to work as messengers and backroom staff to assist the war effort. At first there were both Scouts and Guides working for MI5. But it soon became clear that the boys were too boisterous and talkative and couldn't adapt to periods of inactivity between their duties. It was felt that the girls were more restrained and could be trusted to a greater degree, so the Boy Scouts were phased out. A total of 90 Guides worked for MI5 during the course of the war and their main duties were as messengers, which often involved them going out of the buildings. Some of the top-secret messages had to be passed on verbally, which shows how much the girls were trusted. Wonder if BP was amused by this? http://www.scotlandswar.ed.ac.uk/Midlothian/Home-Front-Girl-Guides/Girl-Guides-and-MI5 https://www.mi5.gov.uk/home/about-us/who-we-are/mi5-history/mi5s-early-years.html

Hah, I will redouble my efforts, hopefully I do not keep you waiting there alone for long. Seems to this CIT (curmudgeon-in-training) that the effort to do it HC (thank you) would have been the same, so why not. This is like opening a baseball camp in New England with a New York Yankees motif, the RED SOX Nation would not have it. Anyway, scouts burning and digging out log canoe could be a interesting summer camp project. OA, Indian Lore MB, history texts, Washington Redskins, and Hollywood (Adam Sandler ) yeah all that too. My $0.01 for being crotchety

PC or just grumpy, I find myself getting annoyed that my scouts go to summer camp and come back thinking the Northeast native Americans or all native Americans built totem poles and lived in tepees. And why not, right at camp is a totem pole and a tepee where a dugout canoe and wetu should be.

It's for the children.

For camp staff just follow these simple steps Source: http://lhc-bsa.org/Camping/Staff/Staff%20Clearances Camp Staff – PA State Required Clearances For all Camp Staff Employees as well as CIT’s (Starting at age 14) Let’s get started- If you jump all these hurdles by June 1 and complete all your employment paper work, turning it into Flag Plaza service center and you will receive $50 to reimburse you for getting your clearances. (Heritage Reservation and Camp Seph Mack Staff employees) You will need a credit card or a debit card works great. The total cost for this process is $47.50 This breaks down as $10 for the state police, $10 for Department of Human Services, and $27.50 for FBI fingerprinting. If you have difficulties with this please contact Tim McClure – tmcclure@@scouting.org . 1) Pennsylvania State Police (PASP)You can click the link bellow to go to the website or type or copy and paste https://epatch.state.pa.us/Home.jsp Hopefully you’re looking at a screen that has handcuffs and a computer on it. From here on we will be using numbered steps to guide us. When the number changes it should be a new page, Letters below numbers means its all on that same page. 1. Click the “Submit a New Record Check†blue link near the top of the page. 2. nice long legal “Terms and Conditionsâ€. Read it and hit Accept 3. Personal Info for who is making the check, not necessarily who the check is on. 4. Who is getting the background check. a. Type in the data they need and hit “enter this request†b. Oh no the data’s gone! no its not. Notice the “one request pending†part? c. Families you can put in the next person needed checked now. just keep entering data and hitting the “enter this request†button d. when you are done entering everyone click the “finished button†5. List all record checks they going to do and give you a total @$10 per. Click “submit†6. Pay for it with a credit card. Click “next†when done 7. Double check info and Click “submit†8. Write down control number 9. Should it log you out and say session expired click “check the status of a record check†10. Type in control number and info 11. Once you have a result (hopefully a no record) click the control number a. If the status is "Request Under Review" it will take from two to four weeks for the status to be updated to "No Record" or "Record". "No Record" status should be printed out at your printer. "Record" status will be mailed to you. “Pending†means go eat a sandwich and come back later. 12. Click certification form 13. Click the print button. might need to format it some on a case by case basis 14. Send it into Flag 2) Pennsylvania Department of Human Services or PDOHS.https://www.compass.state.pa.us/cwis/public/home 1. “Create new account†families will only need one account as you can submit multiple from one account. 2. Read that stuff. Click “next†3. Come up with a username and security questions click finished 4. Check your email. Your temp password is in the second one they send you. copy it 5. In the first email click “child welfare portal†link 6. Will open new window click “log in†click “access my clearances†7. Read that legal stuff click “continue†8. Enter your username and paste that ridiculous password they sent you click “log in†9. Change your password to something less complex (still needs a lot of stuff) hit submit. 10. Get a drink of water (stay hydrated) 11. Window will refresh and take you back to the log in a. log in with new password 12. Read the terms and conditions click the “I have read" bubble and then “next†13. Read stuff again. click “continue†14. Click "create clearance application" 15. Read more stuff. click begin 16. Bubble for “regular contact with Child†next 17. Fill out the info they need. hit next 18. Fill out the address part you will select if you want a copy mailed to you as well 19. Take a stretch break and get another drink. 20. Previous addresses since 1975 (college kids and military families good luck) 21. Household members since 1975 (Always put your parents in, you can leave there age blank if they are desist.) 22. Double check your work click “next†23. Check the box and “sign†it, click “next†24. No payment code is being given out. hit no then make a payment 25. Type in data about your plastic money 26. Hit the finalize and submit application 27. They will email you when it clears. Mine took all of 45 seconds. 28. Follow the links in your email (probably logging in again) and click “your application has been processed†29. This will open a download window. save it and open it. 30. Print it send it into Flag Plaza 3) The FBI Fingerprintinghttps://www.pa.cogentid.com/index_dpw.htm 1. Click “Register Online†(right column second row down under Registration. 2. fill out yellow boxes on the form a. ignore the… i. tick box about fingerprint card –unless you are not in Pennsylvania ii. agency id, address – leave blank b. select “employment with significant likelihood of regular contact with children box†c. put in more info Lots of it d. hit “next†when done 3. Verify the stuff you typed hit “next†4. Tell them how you will be paying and hit pay 5. Print the receipt. a. there is a link that will show you where you can go to get Fingerprinted (the blue here) 6. it’s a map of PA! Find the best place for you and go there. 7. You will need to bring with you the receipt and your driver's license (picture ID). If you are under age, bring your school ID. Bring your Social Security card and or your birth certificate also. They will need to confirm your ID before they fingerprint you. 8. The actual fingerprinting process is digital now, so enjoy not having ink on your hands. The person there will help you get fingerprinted. 9. Expect a response in 10 days. Make sure you mail items in to Flag Plaza by June 1. YOU’RE DONE!

IMO, I think this inquiry into employment discrimination will quickly and quietly end any requirement that employees be members of the BSA.