Region 7 Voyageur

Padre said To summarize their comments and thoughts:.....Most thought that WB was more about the tickets and relationships within the patrol and the overall experience.

I hope that I am not taking his post out of context but this is exactly why Wood Badge is a great leadership course. A participant does not walk out of a three hour lecture or presentation to maybe or maybe not use some of the information they received. In Wood Badge the participant builds a real team to complete a real project, and then works on their ticket to put the learned leadership skills to work. They then evaluate with their counselor how things worked. Wood Badge is more than talk and printed words it is planning, action, results, and evaluation.

OGE,

Three Fires Council is west of Chicago from the suburbs through central Illinois.(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voyageur)

Bring back garters for the knee socks. They looked cool.

dana_renner,

I fixed your post with punctuation so that others can read it easier.

Is anyone in the Sea Scout program as an adult leader? Maybe they can answer a question for me. For unit service to a ship, does the Sea Scout Ship use a unit commissioner, or service team? Also in larger councils, where there are a good number of ships, is there a council Sea Scouting committee? Would that operate under a Venturing professional scouter? In a council where you have a small number of ships operating and there is not a council Sea Scouting committee would the commissioner task be of the unit commissioner operating in the district level?

dana_renner,

What is up with your grammar, lack of sentence structure, irregular capitalization and punctuation? Your posts are very hard to read.

Thank you all for your replies and discussion. What Laurie said about "review is used as retest by some" described the situation that I have been observing. What Bob White said about being given the opportunities to practice and apply their skills regularly is the real solution to assuring that scouts retain knowledge and skills.

I have work on my hands to try to get these past practices changed.

I asked the original question because I have witnessed retesting in a local unit. The scoutmaster will often have a rope in hand when a scout presents himself for a conference. A retest of knots and lashings follows. I have even seen this at a SM conference for Star or Life ranks. The scoutmaster has the position that he has to make sure that basic scout skills are known by the higher ranking scouts. I have been troubled by this but I want to be on firm ground when I voice opposition to the practice.

I am asking Bob White, or anyone with an answer that can be backed up:

Can a Scoutmaster retest a scout during a Scoutmaster Conference?

Crack

NWScouter,

In the handbook copyrighted 1965 there was a requirement for three 5-mile hikes. I think this went out in 1972.

Dave

Since becoming active in scouting again in 1998 after about 20 years away I have seen many changes from the scouting I knew as a boy. The involvement of women in the boy scout program is one of them. The leadership, skills, attitute and dedication that I have observed of women scouters puts many male leaders to shame.

My Troop Guide in Wood Badge was a lady and one of the best mentors that I have ever had.

I have never heard a female scouter lamenting about how things were better in scouting when she was a youth.

I once thought that women would not make the best choice for Scoutmasters. What I have seen has changed my mind. I have seen some poor examples of leaders that are male but I have not yet seen a female scouter that has taken involvement in scouting seriously that is anything but what Baden Powell envisioned in a leader.

Dave

hops_scout

You are correct. What I ment to say was the three 5-mile hikes that were required at one time.

Dave

Speaking of things that Mr. Jeep wishes were still in the program, I wish that Cooking was still a required merit badge and that that hiking was still a part of Second Class requirements.

)/\(

oOO (_) OOo

As I remember things with rose colored glasses, signaling was the most dreaded requirement for First Class. I became a First Class Scout in 1971. All of the scouts that I knew went for the semaphore option of the requirement. I had seen older scouts being ribbed for not remembering their semaphore after earning their First Class Rank. I did not want anyone to be able to criticize me for not retaining all of the skills required for my First Class Tests. I hatched a plan. If I passed the requirement doing Morse code no one would ever know if I later forgot the Morse code because no one else knew Morse Code! I bought an official Boy Scout Morse Code Kit and I studied hard. When I was ready I found a Life Scout that was willing to test me. He had to use a printed sheet of Morse code to test me because he did not know the code. I passed and have never used Morse code again. On to edible plants!

In my copy of the Insignia Guide 1997-1999 (yes I know I need to get a new one) it states:

Cloth badges and embroided square knots are representative of metal pin-on awards and are designed for the convenience of the wearer. Generally, when a cloth badge is worn, the metal one is not.

I take that to mean that if a scout were to choose to wear the Eagle Award (medal)on a regular basis he should not wear the Eagle rank (cloth patch). The concept is to avoid wearing two things that say the same thing.

As a practical choice I would think that the cloth patch would be a better choice for daily wear.

Dave

In response to my earlier post Bob White posted Let's put that into historical perspective Region 7. Much of B-Ps purpose to the original British Scouting program was to encourage and prepare young boys for a stint in the military. That is not the purpose of the BSA.

I was attempting to point out that the founder of scouting believed in the value of marksmanship. I understand that there was and sometimes is debate as to scouting being oriented towards the military. Many of the skills taught in scouting have military applications, but these skills also have civilian applications. (orienteering, knots, signaling, wilderness survival, first aid, tracking, etc.) I have read that there was much conflict between Mr. Seton and Mr. West in the early BSA about militarism in scouting.

The original post in this thread was about someone being arrested after they used a firearm in defense of their home and property. The incident was in a Chicago suburb. There are several towns in Illinois that have restrictions on possession or use of firearms.

The United States is a republic based on a constitution. One of the benefits of this system is that the majority cannot supercede the rights of the minority. The second amendment of the constitution says in part that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The people does not mean the national guard. The apparent conflict between the constitution and some local laws will not be decided here in this forum but in the courts.

I believe that anyone that chooses to exercise this right also takes on the burden of extreme responsibility for their actions.

Dave

"So make yourselves good scouts and good rifle shots in order to protect the women and chidren of your country if it should ever become necesary."

Scouting for Boys, Part V, Lieut.-General R.S.S. Baden-Powell

Published 1908

I have given gifts to some Eagle Scouts that I have had personal involvement with. The nicest gift that I have given is an engraved Buck Knife that they make special for Eagle Scouts. The price is good too. Check it out at:

http://www.yaworski.com/eagleknife/

Dave

I am an ASM but I was the acting SM this past summer at summer camp. Some moments that will always be in my memory are:

Having a first year scout wet his pants because I failed to make sure that the scouts had access to a restroom brake after a three hour drive to an out of council camp and all of the delays of checking in.

Having that same scout not pass his swimming test.

Having that same scout pass his swimming test the next day and see him walk two inches taller.

Watching scouts that had shown no interest in pioneering suddenly find that lashings are fun. I had to tell the scouts that at 11:00 PM it was time to stop adding on to their gateway and get some sleep.

Sitting in camp while the inspectors came through and graded the campsite and letting the chips fall where they may.

Sitting at a campfire and watching our scouts be awarded the honor campsite award.

Having 9 inches of rain fall in the 24 hours before departing camp.

Aside from the instance of belt loops being earned while a Webelos, do any of the belt loops or pins require that the requirements be completed while the boy is a Cub Scout? Do the requirements state While a Cub Scout do X?

I am serious because I do not know the answer.

I had a recent conversation with a member of the Council Advancement Committee and he stated that merit badge requirements could be completed before a boy becomes a Boy Scout. He said that to require that requirements be completed after a boy becomes a scout would be adding or changing the printed requirements. He went on to say that certain Boy Scout requirements for rank say while a First Class Scout, etc. but that most requirements never say "while a scout do X". If this man is correct then Cub Scouts could work on requirements for Boy Scout merit badges.

I have always believed that activities and achievements that a boy does before his registration date do not count.

I need an enlightened answer to argue this question either way.

Dave

Bob,

Is the Charter Organization Representative a voting member of the Committee?

Dave

OK here we go!

Christmas is a federal holiday. The United States has federal holidays that honor/remember other individuals. We honor Columbus who was either a great man or a despot depending on your point of view. We honor Washington for many reasons, a man that has some negative events in his resume. (I do to) We honor The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. who was an ordained Baptist minister. Lincolns birthday is not a federal holiday. (presidents day is really the federal holiday of Washingtons birthday)

Jesus of Nazareth was a real person. I personally believe that he was both man and God. My understanding is that the Hebrew and Muslim faith tradition believe that Jesus existed. The United States holiday honors the man, not the religion. If this were not true then the ACLU would be actively working to eliminate the federal holiday observed on December 25. I have not heard of any call by any group to eliminate Christmas as a federal holiday.

At a recent council event I had my red wool jac-shirt on. On that jacket I have a Philmont bull, a patch from Region 7 Explorer Canoe Base, and a 1977 National Jamboree Patch. All the patches are in the correct positions according to the insignia guide. Another adult scouter approached me and asked me if the patches on my jacket were earned as a youth. I answered yes. He commented that I had an adult jacket with youth patches. I cannot say for sure what he meant by that comment but I took it to mean that I should not wear patches earned as a youth now that I am an adult. My hope is that the patches that I wear, that I earned, will stimulate interest in someone else, hopefully a boy scout. I would love to tell them about the positive benefits of a canoe trip, or a jamboree, or a Philmont treck.

My son thinks that I am a member of the uniform police. I discourage him from wearing his OA sash to non OA functions or wearing the OA sash and then hanging his merit badge sash from his belt. I try to follow BSA guidelines for correct uniform wear. I see and read nothing wrong with wearing patches earned as a youth (activities, not rank) as an adult.

Dave

It was explained to me at our Councils Scouting University by our district advancement chair that the councils position on deciding if a scout is active is if the scout is a registered member of the troop listed on the charter. If the scout is listed he is considered active. If the troop feels that a scout is not active then the troop must remove that scout from the charter even if that is mid-year.