Region 7 Voyageur

I have given this knife as a gift.

http://www.yaworski.com/eagleknife/

So, consider this scenario-

Troop 999 has a troop policy that life service hours must be of a leadership nature. Life Scout Joe comes to the Scoutmaster and asks to have the 6-hour service requirement signed off. The Scoutmaster tells Joe that Joe did not lead a service project. Joe responds that he worked last weekend for 6 hours on Freds Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project. Fred is a member of Troop 999.

In this scenario Joe has worked 6 hours giving service on a service project that the Scoutmaster has approved. A Scoutmaster must approve all Eagle projects in the troop before they start, along with the Troop Committee and the District. The requirements book says that hours worked on an Eagle project may be used for Star or Life service hours.

Joe has met the requirement in any troop chartered to the BSA.(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voyageur)

I took the current Wood Badge course in 2002. I was asked to serve on the staff of a course in 2004. To me the biggest benefit of serving on a Wood Badge staff is that I was able to learn the skills taught in my course better and to relearn those lessons that I had forgot. I do feel uncomfortable when the Gilwell song is sung and a verse is added at the end saying I used to be a staffer.

Being on staff did not make me any better or higher up than any of the participants.

We are all here to serve the youth in the program.

A similar idea for adding to the Life Scout requirement was brought up at a troop committee meeting I attended several years back. I read to the committee the pages on "Selecting Leadership Service Projects" in the requirements book and the discussion ended with no added requirement.

This may be found in the current 2006 edition of the requirements book on pages 20 & 21.(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voyageur)

In the Guide to Officers and Advisers it states:

Adult Leaders in Council or District Positions: The lodge adviser, district chairman, council president, or members of the professional staff may recommend adults to the lodge adult selection committee.

Recommendations of the adult selection committee, with the approval of the Scout executive, serving as Supreme Chief of the Fire, will become candidates for induction. All requirements set forth for adult leaders in units must be fulfilled, with the exception of the camping requirements, which may be waived at the discretion of the lodge adviser and Scout executive.

So, adults in council or district positions may become candidates even if they have not fulfilled the camping requirements. Many unit Cub Scouters also serve at the council or district level.

CalicoPenn

The Scouter is not and has not been on the membership list of the councils lodge for several years. He may have been a member at one time.

I thank every poster for your constructive criticism of my post. Everyone had valid points and opinions and the conversation appears to be staying civil.

Region 7 Voyageur

Beavah, the adult wears three 10 year service stars with an orange backing.(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voyageur)

In my opinion there are times when it is correct to inform another Scout or Scouter that they are wearing the uniform incorrectly. Let me give some examples.

Last night our troop had a court of honor. Several Scouts wore their merit badge sashes. One Scout that is two merit badges away from earning Eagle had his merit badge sash hanging from his belt. At a moment when I was able to talk to the Scout out of earshot of others I asked him to wear his sash over his shoulder and I explained why. The Scout quietly repositioned his sash. I am the Scoutmaster of the troop.

At two Blue and Gold dinners that I attended this year I saw adult Cub Scout leaders wearing an Eagle rank patch. If I had the opportunity I would have talked to those leaders and told them that badges of rank are for youth. Any person that has earned the rank of Eagle should have learned how to wear the uniform correctly. The opportunity did not present itself and nothing was ever said.

There is an adult Scouter in our district that wears a tan uniform shirt, both silver and green shoulder loops at the same time, An instructor patch on his left sleeve, service stars indicating 30 years of service with orange (Tiger Cub) backing, and a lodge flap for our councils lodge which he is not a member of. If the opportunity ever presents itself I will try to politely explain to this gentleman that others talk and laugh about the insignia on his uniform.

I do not go around openly correcting or criticizing others on their uniforms. I will suggest to a Scout in our troop that there is a correct way to wear the uniform. I will never correct a Scout in another unit. I will tell a fellow adult Eagle Scout that he should not wear the Eagle rank patch. I will tell a fellow Scouter in a quiet and discreet manner that he is wearing insignia incorrectly on his uniform.

I encourage the Scouts in our troop to wear the most complete uniform that they can. I have never criticized a Scout for wearing the uniform shirt without the uniform pants, socks, or belt.

I believe that there is a time and place for constructive discrete criticism if there are blatant uniform or insignia errors.

OK, start throwing the mud!

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I do not think that this is a good idea.

Religious awards are awarded by the individual faith, not by BSA. I do not think that den meetings should be used for this purpose just as troop meetings should not be used for merit badges. Also from the situation you described this would be a real disservice to the scout that is of a different faith.

I am the Scoutmaster of a troop chartered to an American Legion Post. About 18 months ago this legion post also chartered a Sea Scout Ship. If you private message me I will put you in contact with the Charter Organization Representative of this legion post. He was the driving force in getting the ship started. The chartering of a Sea Scout Ship has benefited all of the scouting units (Cub Scout Pack & Boy Scout Troop) chartered by this post due to increased appreciation of the scouting program by the legion members. There have been several members of the legion post (mainly Navy, Coast Guard, and Marine veterans) that have become involved in the Sea Scout Ship. There are several scouts in our troop that are also members of the ship but we have kept the units separated as far as activities.(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voyageur)

The rank pin is not the same as the mother's pin. The rank pin may be worn instead of the rank patch. This practice is rare but is correct according to the Insignia Guide.

I am not understanding something here and I mean no disrespect to anyone but; what does the BSA using a U.S. Army base have anything to do with state's rights?(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voyageur)

The rank pin (which is not the same as the mother's pin, it is larger) is worn in the same place as a rank patch, the left pocket. A scout does not wear both a rank pin and a rank patch. The First Class rank pin may also be worn by youth on the front of the campaign hat or the expedition hat. Reference: Page 25 of the Insignia Guide 2005

In the council that I serve in a troop must turn in an advancement report in order to purchase rank badges or pins. It is frowned on to keep an inventory on hand for immediate recognition. We present a scout with his rank patch at the meeting following his BOR after turning in the advancement report and purchasing the patch.(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voyageur)

I thought that my new laptop and my DSL connection were so fast that I was seeing posts before they were posted.

Just a side note. The BSA awards the "Honor Medal". The "Medal of Honor" is a military decoration.

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Newbie Den Leader stated: How the neckerchief is worn is a matter of personal preference or Troop preference.

According to the Insignia Guide "the unit has a choice of wearing the neckerchief over the turned under collar or under the open collar. It is not worn over the open collar."

This is a unit decision, not an individual decision.

The Sea Scout Manual states on page 84 "The Quartermaster Award is the highest award in Sea Scouting and is as important as the Eagle Scout Award"

I am not involved in Venturing. I was an Explorer Scout in the 1970's. I have a 14 year old son that is very involved in a boy scout troop and the OA. I have encouraged him to check out Sea Scouting, but as of now he is not interested. I have read the Sea Scout Manual and the Venturer Handbook. The program offered in those books is excellent.

In my opinion a crew or ship should work on delivering that (Venturing or Sea Scout) program and not being a group of older boy scouts and working on boy scout advancement. If an individual scout wishes to continue working on his Eagle Award then he should do that as an individual pursuit. The Ranger Award, Silver Award, and the Quartermaster Award are great goals for any young adult. The Silver Award and Quartermaster Award, while not widely known by the general public, may say more about the leadership and character of someone than the Eagle Award.

In some circles the Quartermaster Award carries a great deal of prestige.(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voyageur)(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voyageur)

The poly/wool shirt seems to hold a press better than the others. There is a slightly different color to it than the poly/cotton shirt. There are also poly/wool trousers available. These pants have a different shade of olive than the poly/cotton pants and they do not have cargo pockets. They look more like dress pants.

I have observed that youth and adults involved in the OA at the regional level usually wear uniform parts made of poly/wool.

I stand corrected. I'll be in the corner eating crow.

Adviser, not Advisor

Both spellings are correct English but the BSA uses the one ending with er.

I think SemperParatus hit it on the head. If a church wants to charter a unit and limit the membership to members of their church they should have that right. Membership restrictions like that carry some baggage that may not be positive.

I do not like seeing units that seem to not want to associate with other units at the district or council level or allow their Scouts to interact with other Scouts.

In 1973 I met an LDS Scout at summer camp. I still remember the many hours that we discussed our religious beliefs and came to understand each other better. I was a Lutheran at that time. I believe that the interaction of youth of different faith traditions can lead to better understanding and respect for others beliefs.

A while back a poster that we have not heard from in a while (Bob White) made a comment that the leather holding the beads was not supposed to be wrapped around the neckerchief. My understanding of what he said was that the wood badge (leather lace and beads) was to go around the neck, under the shirt collar, with the neckerchief on top of the wood badge, and then the beads pulled in front of the rolled front part of the neckerchief. I hope that I have not confused anyone with my description.

On the cover of the current Leaders Edition of the scout catalogue there is an adult with his wood badge worn in the manner I have described. Every photograph or painting that I have seen of Baden-Powell in which the wood badge can be seen also shows it being worn in this way.

Does anyone (Eamonn?) know if the custom of twisting the leather around the neckerchief is wrong? How is the wood badge worn in the UK?

acco40, you posted what appeared to be a quote from some BSA publication or possibly a communication that was sent to jamboree participants. I am curious as to what the source is for the quote.

This idea for a new requirement seems similar to requirement 12. for the Quartermaster Award in Sea Scouts. The Sea Scout requirement states:

1. Cruising: Take command of a vessel with a crew of not less than four Sea Scouts for at least 48 hours (including two consecutive nights). Do no work while in command. You must delegate all duties and supervise only. During the cruise complete the following:

a. Inspect the vessel for required equipment.

b. Supervise the menu preparation.

c. Prepare the boat to get under way with a proper checklist.

d. Anchor, dock, and maintain course by commands to the helmsman.

e. Remain under way for at an extended period during darkness. Discuss appropriate nighttime running procedures.

f. While under way, perform man overboard, damage control, abandon ship, fire fighting, collision drills, and any other drills used by your ship.

During this cruise no substantial errors may be committed. A competent adult leader should grade and observe this requirement and, if necessary for safety reasons, take command of the vessel.

It might be rewriten for an Eagle Requirement like this:

Lead a troop campout of not less than six Scouts for at least 48 hours (including two consecutive nights). Do no work while leading. You must delegate all duties and supervise only. During the outing complete the following:

a. Inspect the camp site for required equipment.

b. Supervise the menu preparation.

c. Plan an activity program for the campout.

d. Use the buddy system on the outing.

e. Perform a safety inspection of the camp, cooking, and fire areas.

f. Write a follow-up report that discusses what went well on the outing and where improvement could be made in the future.

During this outing no substantial errors may be committed. Two competent adult leaders should grade and observe this requirement and, if necessary for safety reasons, take over leadership of the troop.

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