qwazse

I graduated from my troop before the venture patrols started rolling out. I liked the leadership corps emblem. When my oldest son joined the troop, venture patrols were losing favor. His troop never bothered with the concept. It was taken for granted that the older boys would sign up for more challenging activities -- no patch required.

Pulling those old scouting treasures from the attic and showing them to your kids when they are little is a great way to recruit them into the program. I remember doing that with all three of mine, and they all are involved one way or another.

As for names, you're not alone in the confusion. Ever since her officer's briefing, my daughter complained that "VenturING Crew" just doesn't roll off the tongue very well. I tried to explain the concept of name regognition. But she didn't buy it.

A week ago, I was listening to youth from the National Venturing Cabinet try to figure out a new name for their area meetings. The term "Summit", which they started to use last year, is now supposed to refer to the location of the Jamboree.

It just doesn't stop.

You're right MT - I had an excellent crew and an excellent committee on both the troop and adult side. But I also had this:

- A crew in our council whose exisitence was "oppositional" to their troop. Like you described it was truly SAD.

- The rumor mill that ignored the dozens of other crew-troop pairings (as well troops in close proximity) that operated successfully "by the book".

- Paranoid adults who tried to protect us all from a rumored hypothetical scenario when 1) it was not occuring in our district, 2) there were no signs of it occuring in our units, and 3) our youth urgently needed us to stop bickering and step up to help them.

- Folks who would use our "issues" to continue personal arguments that half the people in the room had no clue about.

If it weren't for the youth being willing to forgive us -- if it weren't for them pushing us to do what the program says we're supposed to do in spite of our hurt feelings ... we would have been sunk.

Like sherminator said, kids vote with their feet. So I guess one primary cause for mass exodus can be not listening to them ....

My son and I had a moment to review his scouting career and how I felt/acted about different situations that had come up between adults. It boiled down to this:

1. Listen politely to the folks with great ideas, suggestions, or concerns about the way things should be done.

2. Give utmost respect to the folks who do the work.

3. Do your work to complement the work of the folks in #2.

I've experienced the opposite of Moosetracker in the past four years. The boy scouts who've joined my crew stayed in their respective troops.

The boys who left the troop before their 18th birthday were the ones who never joined the crew. At least half of them went to another troop, but it didn't gut ours. We still had those venturers!

NOT having a crew around for our older boys would result in most of them finding no time for the troop. It would be a trickling away instead of a mass exodus, but the same result.

We did have adults making it an "either/or" situation like what MT described. In the first year, they made a pretty big stink. Time and numbers made 'em come around. It didn't hurt that some girls tossed in a few service hours on some boys' eagle projects.

I'm incline to chalk MT's experience to the adults wanting a show to run rather than wanting youth to lead the show.

Wide brim dark brown leather hat. Not BSA issue, but looks good with the scout uni, as well as our venturing crew's prediliction for activity in the Appalacian wilderness.

More importantly, it sheds the rain and keeps water/snow from filling the hood of my jacket!

Based on meeting attendance at times, I know a few crew members who felt like "lone venturers".

Given that a good crew will eventually attract youth from outside school (ours did from the get-go), you should consider being charterd by an organization that is interested in attracting diverse youth from a wide area.

Our school district allows the youth to promote crew activities. Just like most elementary schools let the BSA district executive or a nearby troop promote scouting. In fact my crew president is planning on visiting 8th grade classrooms to promote the program. They just have to add a disclaimer at the bottom of fliers saying "this activity is not supported or endorsed by the __ school district."

Needless to say, rules are dependent on your school district, so talk to your superintendant.

One other tactic that I heard recently: "The boys on the PLC set the minimum standard for attendance." This needs a little moderation from the scoutmaster, because the youth are their harshest critics. But, the bottom line is this is not a requirement from the committe or the SM's. It's what the boys feel they need in a leader to have a successful troop.

It's a subjective area, "cellephone courtesy". You could exhaust yourself making a set of rules everyone can follow.

When I see a couple of boys tuning out the rest of the group -- especially when they could use their leadership, I call them on it and tell them to stash the gadget. I explain that I'm not being "anti tech", and this is no different than when I was a kid and had to stash the deck of cards to help the rest of the patrol. Shoot, it's no more different than when my wife sends me the "earth to hubby" signal at home!

A couple of our boys with the worst habit of this are going to Jambo, and I hope that by coaching them now, they'll be a little more self-aware and recognise the trade-off between staying connected online and keeping on good terms with their contingent.

P.S. - I think some boys would leave the gadget at home if you made a rule that they HAVE to call mom once a day!!!!

Okay, a "respectful and gentle" conversation then.

Point is, I figure in the four years I've been skiing I've organized day trips to the slopes for about 100 youth. Mostly without helmets. Until this year I hadn't paid attention to it. But, so far three out of three winter events this year someone has landed on their head. The one which I was directly responsible for was the only one in which helmets were required (by me personally, thanks to the GSS revision), and that youth walked away with just a headache. The other two were hospital stays. The most recent was a youth from my unit who is now in a back/neck brace for months and I wish someone at that activity could have told the kid put on a helmet or stash the board.*

So, folks, if you're looking for a way out of the helmet rule, you won't find it from me.

*P.S. - I'm not blaming the supervisors of the event on this one. Although I haven't had a chance to debrief, I suspect the snowboarding was done somewhere away from adults. In any case, the youth knew the helmet rule (as well as the "sandwich principle"). This is the hard way to learn an important lesson.

Another one of my youth just fractured their spine snowboarding "offroad" at an event that I was not supervising. He borrowed the board from a friend, I know he did not borrow a helmet. Three days in hospital plus a seizure

That's it. If I see ANY of you letting you or ANY of your youth on ski's or snowboards without headgear for ANY activity (scouting or otherwise), I'm stopping them in their tracks and telling them to go make snowmen until they get headgear. If they point you out as their adult leader, we will be having a "conversation."

Awesome event. I don't think there's ever a perfect time for this sort of thing, so I think you all did right by maximizing use of an existing facility.

If National REALLY cared about getting the nation's Venturers in one place for a rally, they'd ask all councils to bring crew contingents as well as troops to Jambo! Until then, a series of 3-day nation-wide events sounds like our best bet.

NER-4 has an area-wide event for all of its units that weekend. (Look up "Campaganza". When I heard the name I had my doubts, but those in the know guarantee me it'll be huge. "Adults picked the name, but youth picked the bands.") So, my crew will be drawn there. Wonder if there's anyone interested in pitching in for a video feed between the two events?

Ski trip this past weekend was a tough sell to our youth since the new reg was in place and it added $5 to the fee. (That was a group rate that I negotiated with the resort CEO three months ago, letting him know that BSA Units should be requesting helmets if they don't have them.) Low #'s were on the sign-up list until the very last minute. Then they all realized that nobody else was planning a trip for them, and kids started coming out of the woodwork.

It was rainy, so the helmets came in handy. (As did the waterproof gear that the kids used to backpacking had acumulated.) One snowboarder in the group did get his "bell rung" lightly, and now he's my most vocal proponent of helmets. I figure that's one less ER visit and CT scan that YOU ALL don't have to pay.

My only regret is that my wide brim leather hat no longer fits. But, personally, I think I was able to work on my technique with a little more confidence (and less drag than the hat).

Bottom line: Gear up and ski, or naked noggin and build snowmen.

I teach my boys when it comes to requirements, follow the letter of the law. So if a scout gives me twelve ways he has kept himself clean, I'll sign off TF 13, SC 11, and FC 12. When it comes to life, follow the spirit of the law. So if a boy is a paragon of virtue everywhere except on his Facebook page, he'll hear from me.

In a similar vein, if a boy tells me about how he walked through his entire web browser history with his parents and made sure they were his MySpace and Facebook friends. (Hasn't happened yet.) I might just sign him off on all three.

What does the crew president have to say about this? Meeting indoors in the winter just because its winter would be a show-stopper for my youth.

Have you suggested the crew attend an Council/Area VOA event? A lot of these have training in the chaperon's coffee lounge, and it's a lot better way to get to know other adults trying to do the same thing.

Anyway, if the president is not meeting WITH the committee or addressing the CO at some point in the year, in my opinion, you don't have a crew. Might as well let the charter lapse.

There are actually a lot of specialty recognitions for youth. Venturing awards are just the tip of the iceburg.

But, it would be nice to see a Boys Life article or two on the subject. Maybe interview a recent silver awardee or a quatermaster.

Real men do curse, among other things. But they shouldn't. So don't try to drum up a speach. It's really not so complicated:

If a youth says it, tell him "Don't cuss."

If an adult says it ask "Please don't cuss."

If you say it, apologize. (Even if those who hear it are adults who think nothing of it themselves.)

Some youth have dared to become my facebook friends. It's a real pain, but they get a message from me when an obsenity appears in their status. So far none of them have unfriended me because of it.

Here's the smoke and mirrors: "Den Chief" isn't an office within a venturing crew. But just because it's not an office in your primary unit doesn't mean it can't count as a POR toward your Eagle.

For example, three of our Eagles from our troop served their POR as officers in a venturing crew.

The rub: since "Den Chief" is a troop or varsity scout position, the WAY IT's WRITTEN, you would have to be multiple registered with a troop or team to hold it.

Now you and I and anyone else can split hairs over this, but what you *need to do* if this is more than just a hypothetical question is talk to your district/council advancement chair *now* and iron out what is or isn't acceptable. Then, talk to your council staff and make sure they aggree. If there is the **slightest hint** of disagreement, have them call National. (What else is that increase in $3 for?)

Trust me, it is not very comfortable when you are turning in an Eagle application for a 17.9 year-old and council staff is picking apart what your DAC told you four years earlier.

I should show some of your posts to my girls. It might motivate them to take NYLT just to spite you all! (If they can stick around after I hand them their card, shake thier hand, and say "welcome to the Boy Scouts of America", they might be the right kind of women for your boys to take a leadership course with.)

If I recall, YP regs have to do with SLEEPING arrangements, and few of our patrols camp in one big tent. So, putting 4 girls in 1 or 2 tent(s) and 4 boys in 1 or to other(s) (adult leaders, male and female, nearby) is not going to break a patrol method.

That said, our program exludes 11-13 y.o. females, which may make the younger boys feel a little awkward. I guess we'll be figuring that one out as we go along.

P.S. - I never thought much of JLT when I took it 30 years ago, but think back favorably now. If young women were in the mix, I don't think it would have altered much.

I admire your concern about the long-term viability of your crew. I think the key to success is an advisor with a similar commitment. Sounds you want your crew to be outdoors (like mine) and like a spiffy, nationally supplied, uniform (not like mine). So, you're going to want an advisor with a similar interest (and maybe some kids to feed into the program) and a committee of adults to support you and about 5 other youth in getting it started.

Talk to your parents and other scouting adult leaders to see if they know of anyone who might fit the description.

Best of luck!

Hey Thunder,

I started our crew for about the same reason you did. (Plus my daughter was 12 at the time, did not fit in with girl scouts, and loved the outdoors just like her older brother.) A couple of years with our council's VOA and I learned that every crew does it differently. Ours ran finances separate from the troop because some of the adults at the time (especially the UC) felt that we would be a drain on troop resources. Turned out that the crew has been running budget surpluses and that money could have definitely helped the troop over the years.

Other crews were extentions of the troop, like yours. The crew committee became simply a subcommittee of the troop. On the other end of the spectrum, I knew one advisor/scoutmaster who was on pins and needles because his two committee's wouldn't "play nice" together. The youth got along fine, but he had to work around his adults.

Ideally, there will be some activities that are "troop only", some that are "crew only", and some that are joint endeavors. If your crew quickly recruits young women (as well as female adult leaders), this will in turn bring in boys who may not have been scouts, and eventually gaurantee that your crew has a different flavor than your troop. By working with a different set of youth, rather than a subset of the troop -- you may see the need for a separate treasury.

I think by-laws are inconsequential. Most people will never read them. Frankly, as long as adults feel welcome to contribute either group (regardless of their registration to troop or crew), you'll have a great time.

The new GSS requires helmets for all downhill skiing activities. Can anybody tell me precisely what this means? I would love to get gear for our Troop and Crew, but $ is an issue. The standard ski helmets are sized precisely and cost at least $75. Is this what we are expected to use?

Is there any headgear out there that could be dual-use (e.g., skiing and rock climbing)?

The slopes are pretty tame here in Western PA are pretty tame, so this rule may be a deal-breaker for some youth.

After our last meeting my crew president said that me and my co-advisor talked to much. So, looks like it's youth led or bust. (I still have to break it to my co-advisor.)

You might want to catch up with your old troop (or transfer to a new one). See if you can advance to Life this year!

For certain crew events, I have allowed parents to come with 8th graders as guests. (For example, if we are at a state park, there'd be nothing I could do to keep you and your mom/dad from camping next to us anyway. You'd might as well be part of the company.) But, it's not the same as being a crew member (no chance to be an officer, skills can't count toward advancement, etc ...).

When they feel disoriented, I answer my crew "What does the map say? What does the compass say?"

One time, my daughter smarted back, "What does the GPS say?"

My reply, "Tracking Satellites..."