Proud Eagle

did anyone else get a bit confused by that last bit in Dave J's post? Bob White: I would disagree that pointing a gun at people, or not pointing one at people is a "value" unto itself. I would suggest it is an expression of a value. More like a political position rather than a moral value. I would not, under any circumstance, point a firearm at another person unless it was to protect life, liberty, or property, or to train for the defense of the same. On the other hand, I have no objection to playing paint ball just for the fun of it. However, I think paintball has a

chembard, I agree completely that paintball is a potential danger to the eyes if people do not take proper precautions. However, you also pointed out a correctly worn mask in good repair virtually eliminates that risk. I do not agree with the overall validity of your argument. We trust Scouts to be responsible enough and listen well enough to use REAL FIREARMS that can kill people if mishandled. So why should we not trust, after proper safety instruction, Scouts to use paintball markers? Oh, and don't forget, "Once an Eagle, always an Eagle."

That last bit comparing BSA professional training to military training got me to thinking. It seems to me the Army may be on to something with doing a lot of heavy training BEFORE someone starts their job. Certainly the Army uses various types of advanced training throughout a soldiers career, but they certainly start the job with the skill needed for the job. It sounds to me like the DEs have to wait 3 years to be considered fully qualified for the job they have been doing... for 3 years. That all just seems a bit strange to me. Perhaps the BSA needs a DEBC. (District Executive Basic

Your son is both lucky and unlucky with the age he is. He will have the opportunity to attend 2 Jambos if he chooses. On the down side he will be a bit younger than optimal for this Jambo, and a bit older than most participants at the next. I was at the 1997 Jamboree with my troop as a visitor. I believe it was the day of the opening ceremony, because we attended the show and heard Clinton address the Jamboree. I must say that the touring we did before visiting Jamboree was much better with my home troop on that trip. In 2001 I attended as part of the Council contingent. In fa

I can't tell you what the "book" says about this subject. I can tell you what my "gut", informed by 13 years of Scouting says. If I was the SM, and believed a requirement had not been completed, I would not sign it. The Committee can not force the Scoutmaster to do anything. They can replace him if he does not buckle to their demands. As to weather or not the SM should sign off on the requirement in this case, I can't make that determination based on the information provided. ScoutNut: I do not agree with you. If during the coarse of a conference, board of review, or at othe

FOG: I know exactly what you are talking about. I haven't quite given up on uniforms yet. I know that the way things are it is too much to ask for everyone to be in complete uniform. So I will limmit the fight to a correct uniform shirt worn with some amount of dignity for the moment. Perhaps I shall add to that quest a push for Eagles to go the full measure during their Boards of Review and Courts of Honor. That really shouldn't be too much to ask. Laura, (responding to your post in the other thread): Now that you mention it, I don't really like the general public seeing Scouts

reply moved to thread in uniforms section(This message has been edited by Proud Eagle)

dsteele, I understand your position. You do not have a choice about approving paint ball or laser tag. (Though I wouldn't be suprised if you have unkowingly approved a permit for an activity that included that as an unlisted activity.) I also don't want scouting to become a place where someone can just play with a gun when they feel like it. There are clear differences between recreational activities using devices intended for those activities and unsafe "recreationa" activities using firearms or other weapons. I don't want Scouts to start packing shotguns around camp and shooting th

I do believe what you are telling us. However, until I see something specific about it in either the Ceremonies books, Guide for Officers and Advisors, or Guide to Inductions, I will continue to operate as always. NOAC's are great because you never know when you may run into someone like a National OA Committee member. Finding one of them by accident helped solve a running argument between some people in my lodge. The thing is though, the opinions, beliefs, etc of individual committee members do not constitute official policy. If I see something published as policy I will go with it. If I

Has anyone else noticed the tendency of national publications of various forms to publish pictures of scouts in absolutely terrible uniforms? I am thinking of the Eagletter and the Elks magazine. I know the BSA handbook and some other BSA publications also have this problem. Last time I looked at one of my dad's Elks magazines they had many Eagles who had recieved various awards pictured. I don't think a single one of them had a correct uniform on. Most had on jeens or khaki pants. Some had one sash over their shoulder and the other on a belt. Some had patches very far from the correct place.

Has anyone else noticed the tendency of national publications of various forms to publish pictures of scouts in absolutely terrible uniforms? I am thinking of the Eagletter and the Elks magazine. I know the BSA handbook and some other BSA publications also have this problem. Last time I looked at one of my dad's Elks magazines they had many Eagles who had recieved various awards pictured. I don't think a single one of them had a correct uniform on. Most had on jeens or khaki pants. Some had one sash over their shoulder and the other on a belt. Some had patches very far from the correct

If BSA isn't ready for Gen X it is far too late already. The Gen X people may not be in charge, but they are in the system now. It is the following generations that greater thought should be given too, since they are the ones that there is still plenty of time to prepare for the roles they will take, or prepare the system to survive them, whichever in needed. If people like the National Committee are worried about the next generation, it is probably because they have too little direct contact with members of that generation. Either that, or they have been listening to too many power po

I really like the traditional patrol names that have been modified. That way you do have room for uniqueness and originality, yet it keeps ties to the longer traditions of scouting and it lets you use stock patches. My troop decided to give the boys the option of designing their own patch instead of a stock patch last time patrols were reorganized. This lead to the unique "Soda Can" and "Highway" patrol patches. However, it took us a couple of months to get the patches made and cost several times more. Then most of the boys didn't wear the patches. It certainly didn't help patrol identit

I agree with the BSA policy on two deep leadership. No adult should ever be alone with a Scout other than there own child during a Scouting event. That being said, there are times the ideal must take a back seet to the practical during some of the "grey arrea" functions. Certainly if one takes it to the the extreme you will get the problems that F.O.G. has mentioned. However there are work arounds for these. As an example, many times there are not two adults present during travel to OA events. The solution is that the travel to the event is not an official BSA activity. The event is

I find that last bit in F.O.G.s post to be highly unfortunate. I don't mind if someone decides to where non-official pants or shorts similar to the BSA uniform versions. I don't mind if a new Scout doesn't have a complete uniform yet. I can even excuse inexperienced Scouters, and all adults in cub scouting from having uniform pants/shorts. I cannot excuse veteran adults in the Boy Scout program for having poor uniforming. Certainly there are times the official uniform is not functional and so it should not be worn. However, I have noticed that just since I have been involved at the Boy S

Bob White, dsteele, Thank you for coming through with level headed responses after having read a somewhat unhappy rant. The point I was trying to make about DE and DCs wasn't so much that they weren't showing up enough. Rather I was trying to demonstrate the lack of connection between units (at least mine) and the district. I really don't expect the DC or DE to stop by very often. It would be nice to see them around for a friendly visit from time to time. (Instead of the "why isn't your recharter done yet?" visits [answer, because council says it isn't due for a month and a half, and

WARNING, this is going to go very deep into RANT land. Just skip it if you don't won't to hear me complain about things. It will also probably get way off topic. I notice there is an expectation by both Eamonn and Bob White that the district has its act together. I can say that certainly doesn't appear to be the case in my district. Maybe it really is, I don't know. My district usually has alot of blank spots in council publications where different contact persons are supposed to be listed. My unit's commissioner is non-existant as far as I can tell. I have seen a DE at a tro

hey Trail Pounder, I know some of the staff for that coarse. I had been hearing about it for months. My council (Shawnee Trails) has a dedicated little corps group of trainers, so many of those same Powder Horn people were putting on a Wood Badge just a couple of weeks before. I hope everything went well. I would like to hear what you thought of the coarse. Your perspective would be particularly interesting since you sound like you are not from the area.

I do not know what changes you refer too. I was chief of my lodge last calendar year and I am currently chairman of a lodge committee. I have done quite a bit with ceremonies, and I have never heard anyone mention that we can't call the regalia regalia. I was always taught (and everything I read supported) the idea that the ceremonial significance of the regalia is what seperated it from mere costumes, not the fact that it was Native American in origin. I have long heard that only Youth should where regalia, but I thought that was a function of the fact that only youth should be principals

I think that the rule against laser tag is not appropriate for the G2SS. I can think of no real danger within laser tag that is not present during many other popular games. (capture the flag, water gun fights, hide and seek) In fact, laser tag is safer than many games of capture the flag I have seen. In laser tag no one even touches anyone else. In capture the flag you can end up with a pretty rough contact sport if someone forgets the rules. The only safety concern I can think of with laser tag would be eye safety. That is very easily addressed through the rules of the game. (Also, I

I have been an ASM with my troop for a little over 2 years. The only communications I recieve from council are email newsletters from the council exec. The only reason I get that is because one of my former OA advisors forwarded it me when it had some useful stuff in it and I signed up for it. Many entire units have no one that knows of this e-letter and it is the only regular communication from council that I know of. As for training, I know there are some forms of training available. However, my district seems to only conduct cub related training. (In fact my district doesn't even

No one participating in a Scouting event should be permitted to smoke around Scouts. This is the apparent intent of the G2SS. However, more than that, it is common sense. Scouters should not engage in activity around Scouts that they would not approve of. This is a very simple case of setting a good example. This common sense rule also extends to parents, since any adult participating in a Scouting event is a role model to at least some degree. As to those who are arguing over the interpretation of policy, I am very confused as to why there are multiple interpretations. Perhaps it i

Making Scouts attend when the leaders does not is clearly inconsistant. The only excuse would be if youth protection/safe scouting made it necessary. I personally like the Philmont approach to religious services. At 7:00 p.m. every night there are four services in base camp. There is a Catholic mass, a protestant service, a Jewish service, and a LDS service. Everyone is encouraged to attend the service of their faith, and are invited to attend any of the others if they would prefer that. Those that don't attend service of some type are asked to remain in there camp, keep quiet, and b

I am relatively new to these forums. I have been reading off and on for a few weeks, but I just joined. I am curious about a few things. Has anyone managed to make the new scout patrol idea actually work? If so what size troop did this happen in? If you do not use the NSP, how do you handle new member orientation and what not? I come from a background where my troop was relatively small, and usually functioned more as a single large patrol rather than seperate, distinct patrols. The new scout patrol seems like a great idea in a "model" troop that has enough members to form mu

"I do think i heard somewhere that Order of the Arrow had changed their rules recently and are now allowing overnights that are NOT in tents or under the stars (cabin camping)to count toward the required nights for nomination to OA." -LauraT7 As far as I know, there has not, at least in the last few years, been any rule on this either way. The OA sets out the number of days and the number that can be long term camping, but it reserves interpretation of what specifically counts to the unit leader. See the national OA website in this regards to interpreting the camping requirement: h