BDPT00

Two things come to mind. Disagreements with the insignia guide are normally due to interpretation. How can "not to be worn on the belt" be misinterpreted?

If we're ignoring the insignia guide, do we feel the same way about a merit badge sash? How about both (maybe one on each side)?

BDPT00

Ignoring the usual opening childish insults, BadenP writes:

The good news is that his comments demonstrate that he's clearly not from my council. I'll take a step out on this one, and assume he's being somewhat truthful ... it's too bad that money speaks louder than the actual requirements for the award. Monetary contributions to support Scouting are a good and important part of our movement. It does, however, have nothing to do with any of the clearly stated requirements for the DAM or the Silver Beaver. I won't argue that it doesn't happen, but not where I hang my hat.

BDPT00

You guys obviously aren't from most councils. BadenP says you're clearly in the minority, because these awards are purchased. I guess you and I are totally in the dark, because my council's the same ... where money has absolutely nothing to do with selections.

BDPT00

Wait a minute. You're throwing out a 'fact' here that needs to be backed up. People ask legitimate questions about square knots, and rumors don't help. If these little generals have purchased 'more than half' of their 'rows and rows' of knots, I'd like to hear what those knots are. To me, 'rows and rows' of knots means at least 4 rows. That would mean that 'more than half' would be at least 7:

#1) James E West

#2 ?

#3)?

#4)?

#5)?

#6)?

#7)?

I'll wait here.

BDPT00

Be careful not to "add to the requirements." This thing about whom you would trust your life to when lost in the wilderness is way over the top. That's a far cry from whom you like to camp with, because they follow a duty roster and they're cheerful when they do.

BDPT00

To answer your question ... yes, you'd join the local lodge.

We're all advisors (some wear a patch, as that's their official capacity). I've found it successful if each troop has an OA advisor (somebody who's the go-to guy for OA questions). That would be you. You can be as active as you wish to be.

BDPT00

OK, I give up.

This has something to do with Wood Badge?

BDPT00

Pack212,

Thanks for the responses, but I'd prefer to wait for Shortridge's answers from AHG. No sense in debating about things if we're starting with misinterpretations or just opinions.

I AM willing to hold my breath. AHG has nothing to hide, and I'm sure they'd be happy to put out fires if misinformation.

BDPT00

OA? LDS? There are things our OA kids do that we'd rather keep private. I have no clue what LDS kids do, and I bet there's no way for me to find out.

And therein lies my weak attempt at trying to make a point. I don't like trying to beat up on groups with ceremonies. They serve a purpose.

Some here clearly think that AHG is keeping secrets. I'm glad they're finally being asked directly, and I suspect they have no secrets whatsoever.

Let's wait to hear from them.

BDPT00

Some very good questions. I'm glad you're asking the right people.

Please share the responses when you get them.

Thanks, BDPT00

You mean like the LDS or the Order of the Arrow? Or maybe APO or any other fraternity?

You"re the public. Instead of trying to find another way to needle an organization you know nothing about, why don't you just come out and ask them. Don't ask us, and don't make assumptions. They're not hard to find.

BDPT00

Before we go too far here, we need to give BadenP a chance to define what a 'scouting program' is.

AHG is apparently not.

Is the BSA?

How about GSUSA?

Campfire?

Anybody?

BDPT00

Oh, I disagree.

AHG Mom and Seattle are finally getting down to business, and are discussing some basics regarding each others' programs and ideas.

Seattle, yes, AHG uses charter partners. This was some of the "discussion" by earlier posters, because they may very well share a charter partner. Most BSA and AHG units are chartered by churches.

I like the tag-along questions. Makes for interesting discussion.

BDPT00

Shortridge,

You keep beating this anti-immigrant dead horse. Here's what I found out ... Many pages ago, someone (perhaps you) accused AHG of plagiarizing BSA forms. The form you pointed me to originated by copying a BSA form (which has now been updated, just as AHG is doing). That form did not include legal residents, but now does. The Volunteer Application form for AHG was changed five years ago.

Fact: AHG, although they could, does not disallow membership to legal residents.

You asked if I would allow my daughter to join a wiccan group. Absolutely not. Why should I? I think we're on the same page there. Is the BSA aligned with wiccans? No ... don't share much in the way of values, as far as I know. Don't particularly care.

Tell you what you could do, just for fun: find yourself a non-citizen legal resident, and try to join the AHG. Do you honestly think they'd be denied? I can tell you, absolutely, they would not (at least not for that reason).

BDPT00

You seem really hung up on this anti-immigrant thing.

I'd be happy to dig a little to see what I can find out. I have no idea why it was the way it was, but I don't like to guess.

BDPT00

Your daughter can join, but I understand why you wouldn't want her to. That's fine. Don't join. The anit-immigrant comments are clearly wrong. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the form you led me to last night changes soon. You're a computer guys. If you find an error on your site, do you just leave it, or do you fix it? Scoutfish is right. With sites as big as ours and theirs, there will always be edits. I'm sure they appreciate your pointing out an inconsistency. I think your overworked point regarding immigrants is dead. Do you think their organization would change a national policy just to make you happy? No. They're editing an error. Mybe they'll send a thank you note.

BDPT00

I see what you're referring to. I'm sure it will be fixed (not to hide something, but to update something that needs updating). You're good at this computer stuff, and I thank you.

BDPT00

They've never been anti-immigrant. That's quite a stretch. Incompetant? Looks like they update their website when they discover an error or misprint. Is that wrong? Do you really think they're trying to hide something? BadenP does. He thinks they're a cult. If so, why would they encourage the girls to earn the religious emblems from their own churches, which helps them grow in their in their faith? Nobody's trying to lead them down a strange path to who-know-where.

BDPT00

Thank you. I'll check it out ... couldn't find them myself.

I hope you get some personal experience with them. I still don't see why the fuss regarding their web site. It all sounds great to me.

BDPT00

Shortridge,

I went to the site you referenced: www.ahgonline.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=41554

Ive copied and pasted below. AHG welcomes all girls, and leaders need to be citizens or legal residents. I dont have access to the forms, so I dont know what you were referring to. I dont see the youth requirement as being exclusive.

* Who can be an American Heritage Girl?

Any girl, age 5 and in Kindergarten through age 18 can be an American Heritage Girl. Girls of all different backgrounds are welcome in AHG.

* Who can be an AHG Volunteer?

An AHG volunteer must be at least 21 years of age and a citizen or legal resident of the United States.

(I didnt post all of it, as the portion I wanted to clarify was in regard to legal residence.)

I prefer to stick to facts and actual personal experiences not rumors and guesses.

My experiences and what I've learned are positive.

BDPT00

Seattle,

You're doing the right thing, and I don't mean working with the AHG. I mean that you're doing your own investigation, rather than listening to rumors. You will be pleased with what you find, but don't take that from me. Keep it up, and then share with us what you discover.

BDPT00

Lots of questions and answers needed.

Interesting that nobody has suggested calling the Scout Executive or the police. If something went wrong, you'll suddenly see responses telling you what posters would have done immediately. Right. I don't see any of that yet. That always comes after the fact. Whatever happens, this guy has messed up big time. This is way out of line.

BDPT00

I don't see that anyone has answered your question. I'd suggest one with all the bling, and one without. The minmalist shirt might display your favorite knot. Depending upon the impression you choose to give, select your shirt by the event. Commissioners might make people more comfortable without all the do-dads. If you attend an event that causes you to wear ribbons or medals, the minimalist shirt would probably be better, especially if the event is to recognize someone else.

Sometimes you may feel that you want to establish some credibilty with a strong first impression, so you wear more stuff on your shirt. To me, when you play this game a little longer, you might feel more comfortable wearing less. You have nothing to prove, and your reputation preceeds you.

Do one of each.

BDPT00

As long as we're focused on clever language usage, I'd suggest taking a closer look at the reference regarding . It includes legal residents, which means the only exclusion is illegal residents. All girls are welcome, by the way. This exclusion talk is bull. So the comment that AHG makes clever use of language can go both ways.

The AHG is open and up-front about who they are, and what they believe and stand for.

Still leaning very heavily in their favor,

BDPT00

Thanks, Wulf.

BDPT00