ParkMan

The age could be extended, but we would need to redefine the program a bit. There's no great reason for a program to run from 11 to 21 - that's too large an age range for people to be in the same sets of activities. I would find it unusual to send my 11 year old child off with a bunch of 19 year olds for the weekend. I would support a young adult program if we learned the lessons of the UK and had better age separation. Something like: 5-8: Cub Scouts (Lions, Tigers, Wolves) 9-11: Webelos (Bears, Webelos/AOL) 11-14: Scouts aka "middle school scouting" (Scout throu

I retract my comments and the "faux" part. That was categorically wrong of me to state that and I did so solely out of frustration. There is no excuse for what I wrote and you are right to call me on it. Sexual abuse is wrong. The BSA was wrong. Anything and everything should be done to protect the kids we serve. Everyone who was abused deserves compensation and to be made whole. I am just frustrated by the lack of constructive ideas to preserve the program itself. I wrongly thought the Washington Post should have made a more constructive suggestion here. I let my frustration at t

The sad thing is that these sort of faux outrage opinion pieces is why the BSA has the problem is does. It's far too easy for someone to come out and take a hard line against an obvious target. It's another to actually have actually really thought through the issues behind them and have a real solution. It's why I have zero respect for these kind of hand wringing articles and statements.

Great - thanks for the clarification. Then I did misread the intent behind your statements. Yes - all I'm really talking about is having Scouting be a place where everyone is welcome and made to feel comfortable. Glad you are on board with that. And yes, given that you are, I am sorry I suggested otherwise. All I can ask is that everyone is truly welcoming to all who want to join, truly goes out of their way to understand what makes everyone comfortable, and embraces all their neighbors. I would hope that every Scout, adult volunteer, and unit looks at themself and asks "am I trul

Sorry that I mis-interpreted what you wrote. I saw this post: and this: and others and misunderstood. I took what you wrote as believing that diversity and inclusion was some sort of leftist political agenda. I didn't think diversity was even controversial in 2020. But - since you're pointed out that you are in fact in favor of diversity and inclusion, clearly I've misread what you wrote. My deepest apologies for misinterpreting all of that and am happy to stipulate that I was wrong. I am happy that you're on board with having a diverse, inclusive Scouting community

Using racial slurs like "black sister" or "male cracker" in reference to degrading the comradeship of seven white boys is what I am referring to. You have in no way, shape, form or fashion hurt my feelings. You have not challenged my world view at all and I am simply talking about basic human decency. I speak out because it is the correct thing to speak out when people start using racial slurs in the name of Scouting. Scouting is about "to help other people at all times" and "Friend, Courteous, Kind, Cheerful". Knock it off. You want to debate this merit badge - that's fine.

We really need move past this kind of talk. The kind of racial terms now being thrown about are simply not acceptable in 2020 and need to stop now. It's not about degrading the experience for one particular group, race, creed, sex, whatever. In 2020, this is about kids being in Scouting. It's really time to move on from race & gender arguments and just focus on having an open table that anyone can join. I frankly don't care if purple, blue, or whatever kids join our troop - all kids are welcome and we want kids of all backgrounds to feel welcomed and comfortable. To me, the w

I'm just amazed that on a forum about Scouting we are really having some sort of debate on whether diversity and inclusion is a good thing. This isn't a discussion about some political belief or taking sides, it's just a discussion about whether we want to encourage everyone to come Scout with us. Isn't that kind of the whole point of the Oath and Law? I'm utterly confused.

I'd be up for that. Modernize the Citizenship badges a bit and convert 4 to 3. I'd even be game to go from 4 to 2. One focused on citizenship in the nation, one focused on how to be a good citizen in your community.

I put this MB in the same category as the Citizenship ones. This provides concepts that helps prepare scouts to be effective members of society. While I'd wouldn't complain if all the Citizenship MBs went away, I also won't complain about this one given our nation's history. While I an sure that we can find examples where diversity and inclusion do not work as intended, this is one of those areas where we need to stay positive and keep trying. Our kids will all benefit from living in am increasingly diverse country and will thank is for that at least.

Understood, and what happened to you is indeed awful, but I don't think it should be a reason to not continue to build bridges. It's all too easy in our country today to label whole groups by the actions of a few. The core issues here are still the same - our country has a history of slavery that turned into a long legacy of racism. I think it's still in the best interest of healing in our country to be proactive in trying to remove the vestiages of racsim. I think that requires us all to be as proactive as possible. I would rather be on the side of understanding and forgiveness tha

I get what you're saying - but why make an issue out of it? If someone wants me to stop leaving apples on my desk because they are sensitive to the implication of it, I'll be happy to take the apple off my desk. Yep, occasionally good people get inadvertently blamed - but it has a way or sorting itself out when others then can speak to your character on your behalf. I'm sure in your case others stood up and said that you were a great guy and had no ill intent at all. To me, it's about putting myself in other people's shoes. For a very long time in our country's history minorities had

I've come to look at this as an area where awareness is a good thing. Our country is has a deep and long history of racism and went through many reprehensible periods in our past. Maybe someone looks around today and sees no racism where someone else sees lots of racism. Regardless, it helps us all to grow by being acutely aware of the feelings of others on topics of racism, diversity, and equality. We're all people who relate to other people. I'd rather understand better the feelings of those who might feel oppressed so that I can avoid contributing to that. Since I'm not trying to disc

Probably you're right. What @vol_scouter makes a lot of sense to me too. I won't belabour the point any more. I find myself in this whole thing being sort of asked to take sides on this with little knowledge of the past. That's why I'd love one of those 20 minute news pieces about this whole thing - perhaps even an hour. Forget the posturing and taking sides - just let's discuss what happened and why. If the BSA was trying to cover itself - just be honest. If the BSA was simply trying to follow the law but made mistakes - let's be honest about that too. I'm really not trying to g

I think this is where I've been for a long time - that the sheer volume of these must be telling us something. To me, this is more a question is more of - should I be reacting more strongly than I am? Should I be disassociating myself with the BSA? If the BSA did all this awful stuff, why am I continuing to be a volunteer? I presume that all of this has been rectified with the current YPT rules - but really, I just don't know that much about what happened to even make an informed decision. I trust, and I really do desperately want to trust - but I'm feeling like I'm missing somethin

Thank you so very much for the pointer. I'll take a look.

I'm really OK if the BSA is excoriated in some bit of journalism. Myself I'm not looking to excuse away the history anymore - I just frankly don't know what the BSA did or didn't do. I can't even make a judgement at this point because I've got only generalities. I get the sense that "Scouting really messed up", but details are so vague it's impossible for me to determine what it all actually means. As a person, I really would be interested to know.

I'd really love to see an honest accounting for what happened back then. I've heard everything ranging from the "BSA had a list that was used to exclude people and was ahead of the curve" to "the BSA tried to cover up abuse that was happening." I really, honestly don't know what happened back then. I would welcome a 60 Minutes (or similar) news in-depth story on what happened and when. I don't request this in order to try to save the BSA - I figure the BSA is probably done. The sheer enormity of the number of claims and the veracity of the lawyers involved will mean that the BSA brand

I cannot fathom that the BSA nor councils will ever attempt to seize unit funds as part of what happens. This whole business about what happens to unit funds when a unit folds is so nebulous that no-one in any kind of official capacity should ever consider them as anything tangible.

I stand corrected. That's very interesting. Kind of reminds me why I've given up all hope on their being any future for the BSA in all of this. I never expected Biden to help the BSA, but I didn't expect that he had such a family connection.

A 21 year old Scoutmaster in 1989 would be 52 today. EDIT: Sorry - I see someone already made the exact same point. Sorry for the double post. Wishing there was a delete post right now.

I mostly just meant that I think it's unlikely that the Biden-Harris administration is going to try and make an example of the BSA. President-elect Biden, being a Scout himself, I think is less likely to turn both barrels at the BSA in an attempt to make a point simply because he can. I don't think that institutional excesses leading to child abuse is something on his list of standard issues. I doubt very much that he'll do anything to intervene and try to stop the bankruptcy or lawsuits. Perhaps he'll get asked at some point and throw some moral support towards the concept and benefit

I suspect the charter will as no-one really cares about it. I suspect it's really an "inside baseball" kind of thing. You're right though that no-one will back the BSA. There are just too many people - including many who post here - who have bought into the concept that the BSA needs to be held accountable for what happened those many years ago. This is as much about punishing the BSA as anything for many people. Though, I wonder if this would be the only saving grace. Biden, as a former Scout himself, has more familiarity than many. Also, Biden strikes me as more of a prag

That makes sense. If the theory is that claimants will go after the local councils, then that seems very similar to the CO idea where they all submitted claims.

Yes, that's the unintended consequence in all of this. But, I know there is a vocal percentage that feels the BSA must be held accountable for what happened in the past - including a number of people regularly posting on this topic. What we are beginning to see is that the cost to the BSA is very likely the liquidation of the assets of national and the local councils. It was always an unrealistic expectation that the BSA would have to pay but find a way for insurance to cover most of the bill.