ParkMan

1 hour ago, TAHAWK said:

We have had no districts for two years.  SE eliminate them, and hundreds of volunteers in the process.

Hopefully no other councils suffer the same fate.  What a numbskull.

19 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

Quick clarification on this posting:  My overall thrust is that the filing of the Financial Reorganization in itself will establish an era of significant change within the BSA.  It will be plain easier to institute major enhancements and yes, entire eliminations of functions as a result of the financial deformities that will come with it.  

2 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

Councils will be impacted.  While they are not yet thought to be part of the expected national Ch. 11 filing, they are named litigants in the pending tort cases and the other litigants are out to strip council assets.  Depending on the degree of exposure of certain councils, they might find themselves participating in a Ch. 11-like activity.  Also, there will be a significant impact on local councils even if they are not directly a party to a Ch. 11.  When we get to discussing potential national changes we will probably be considering wholesale discontinuation of a portion of what goes on nationally.  That would change the council operation in itself.  This will be an overall time of change.  Let's see if some of those can be positive.

I understand the point.  But, I would go back to my earlier point.  Before we start talking about changes, we really need to focus on why we'd make those changes.

Simply doing more re-orgs, changing the program, etc. is not going to address the reality that we live in a more competitive world today in the youth activity space.  We've got to raise our game in Scouting in order to "compete".  Our Scouting program is excellent - but you can't surround that with lackluster execution.  Packs that repeat the same activities year after year.  Troops that don't camp and having a boring program.  Districts who had stopped trying because they don't recruit new leaders.  Councils who focus on simply keeping the lights on.  These things all matter.

I augment my earlier comments to add:

Understand there are three types of councils

Nationally, councils are going to fall into three groups:

1. High performing councils - growing in membership, growing in fundraising, strong program
2. Typical councils - they are checking all the boxes, membership declines in-line with national trends
3. low performing councils - these are the train wreck councils.   We've all heard the stories

High performing councils - you stay out of their way and provide whatever logistical support they need.  You support their initiatives, you help encourage them to do more.  This is where innovation happens.  You watch these councils and try to replicate what they do.

Typical councils - these councils have potential, but need some guidance.

Low performing councils - You reorganize these.

It's like any team.  Focus on and support your superstars.  Apply training to improve the prospects of those in the middle.  Reorganize those at the bottom of the list.

I think we have to ask ourselves - why would the bankruptcy change things at a council level?  What fundamental structural thing will be different for councils after the re-organization that is not true today?

• Will more money be available to councils to hire those now available council-service Scout Executives?
• Will councils suddenly restructure their executive boards to focus more on districts?
• Will the experience pool of current employees and board members be different after the re-organization?

What's needed at the council level is a plan for success.  How can a council become financially strong?  How can a council balance payroll expenses with available funding?  How can a council increase membership? 

District Success

I suspect that what we will all find is that a plan for council success requires developing a plan for district success.  How does a council best deploy it's resources to support districts?  How does a council select, train, equip, and support district volunteers?  If we look around nationally, I believe we'll find that the strongest districts are those with the strongest teams.  A council could jump start that process by assigning additional professionals or redeploying existing council volunteers to districts - but that's at best a band aid.

Professional/Volunteer Confusion

We need to clarify the job description of professionals.  Other than in a few key strategic places in a council, professionals are not program people.  Professionals provide the guidance to volunteers who drive program.  When professionals start assuming program responsibilities, we end up diluting their time too much.  Professionals become overloaded, they take on too much, and their core responsibility of enabling a prosperous district suffers.  Let's clarify roles and responsibilities so that we make it possible for professionals to succeed.

Let's Focus on Operational Excellence

A big part of the problem in the culture of the BSA is that we're too focused on structure.  The BSA is struggling, so our go-to response is either "let's reorg things" or "let's fix the program."  However, the fundamental problem is that we're just not very good at operations.

I spent a lot of time on membership last year.  Do you know how much guidance I got from the BSA or the Council?  Just about zero.  The DE encouraged me to make sure that we had flyers and school visits lined up.  But, to really develop a strategy for growth the assistance was very little.  What does a membership plan for a district look like?  Who can sit down and help me build one?  Who from the area or region can help our council membership chair guide me?  Where are the membership specialists that can help get us going? 

So - to me, I expect very little locally from the bankruptcy reorganization.  I'm more excited about it's impact on the national organization.  But, the trickle down effect to me locally I expect to be minimal.

4 hours ago, David CO said:

That not the way things work in the States.  We have a winner-take-all sort of system.  It permeates both our politics and our social activities.  If you don't win, you lose.  There is no compromise.

If the atheists win, the religious people lose.  Religion will be banned from scouting, just like prayer was banned from school.  If we don't ban them, they will ban us.  That's the way it is.

Respectfully - that's not the USA at all.  We are the great melting pot - a place for people to bring their diverse backgrounds and experiences and together to form a more perfect union.  We are open to new ideas and are the land of opportunity.

We all win when we work together to solve problems and grow.  That's America.

@Protoclete - as a fellow district volunteer, I too have struggled with the quality of data we get as volunteers.  I know on membership, I wanted some simple reports to track size/adds/drops.  That was very difficult to get and often involved converting some of the data available to professionals.

However, in our case the data generally seemed to track ok.

My only suggestion is to see if you can work your network to find the right contact at National.  I'm sure there's a solid staff person there that would be glad to explain the process to you if you ask.  The "system" sort of discourages it, but in my experience I don't think that people mind some good old fashioned brainstorming when asked.  Perhaps buy your council registrar a cup of coffee, explain what your trying to learn, and then start from there.  Alternatively, find that super well connected volunteer in the council who really knows the system.

Good luck!

My suggestions:

1. Invite all past Scouts, Scouters, and families to attend the celebration.  When I show up at events like Scout Sunday, there are always people who walk up and tell stories about their time as a leader or as a Scout in the pack or troop.  I bet you'll find a lot of people will want to be there.  Get the network going!

2. Setup an exposition/display room.  In wherever you are holding the celebration, fill it up with as much memorabilia as people can find.  We've done this in the troop a few times and people find all kinds of things.  Extend the ask to former members as well.  With a 100 year old troop, I am sure you could fill a good sized room.  We filled a small gym last time.  It will be incredibly impactful to people to walk through a room of memorabilia. 

3. If you've got a pack or Crew at the CO, invite them to be part of the displays and celebration.  Yes, it's the troop's 100 - but it really is a celebration of Scouting at your CO.  Include the other units.

4. In-lieu of a binder that you present to the troop, create a book that can be distributed to attendees.  In the era of digital publishing, it's almost just as easy to take that binder, scan in the pictures and docs, and then distribute that to everyone.  Create paper copies for those that attend.   Distribute digital copies to everyone.  This means that scores of people will benefit from that history.  

35 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

The Charter org would be the same church with potentially a different name.  If the Church decides to no longer be the charter org then they could keep everything but I doubt that they would do that and would be willing to transfer it to a new charter org for the pack/troop.

I'm of the same belief as @mashmaster.  Fun what if's to ponder.  But, really - in reality it will all work out and be pretty boring.

@Eagledad I think your post reinforces my prior point.  We already had the first Atheist Eagle Scout - he earned it probably 90 years ago.

Rather than us being so caught up in the extremes on each side, how can we craft a program that permits both perspectives to coexist.  I don't want to see God driven from Scouting.  But, I also don't want to see the Atheists driven from Scouting either.  

I do understand the point that without some absolute moral guidance from God, morals and values are then infallible human concepts.  In a Scouting context, 98% of all value based decisions are obvious.  Treat each other with respect, don't lie, cheat, or steal.  Do your best, work hard.  Though it is conceivable that these basic concepts in our shared values could be changed - it's improbable that they would be. Further, we see that major faiths are open to a re-examination of their beliefs as times change.  Why?  Because even in these faiths, it is people who interpret the word of God.  

So, while I understand the concern, it strikes me that there has to be a path which preserves the faith based component in Scouting for some units and a more secular values derived from societal norms based component for others.  In others words - how do we enable us to all peacefully coexist side by side?

1 hour ago, yknot said:

I think overmuch is made of religion in scouting. It certainly wasn't as big a deal in the original scouting books and was more along the lines of do your duty to God as you reflect on nature, do a good deed daily, etc. I am of the opinion that atheists who aspire to be of good moral character, evidenced by joining organizations like scouting, without any real belief in the final judgments of a higher being, are probably actually purer of heart than the rest of us lol.  

The world today is more polarized than it once was.  We're more focused on pursuing what we believe is correct than on getting things done.  75 years ago we were focused simply on bringing the Scouting program to kids.  Today, we've got this dimension of arguing over what the right Scouting program is.  Again - this is true in lots of places and is not a Scouting phenomenon.  I suspect this comes from lots of things and we could fill pages upon pages discussing why.

The implication is that this is the new normal and so we have to figure out how to still have Scouting apply broadly while addressing the reality the different communities want a program structured in their image.

6 minutes ago, Liz said:

You're conflating "faith," "religion," and "any one religion" together though. Faith and religion are not the same thing, and one religion is not the same as "religion" as a whole. 

I suppose it might be a tough competition if you pitted the world Scouting movement against, say, the Roman Catholic Church, but at that point you'd be splitting hairs and missing the point of what they're trying to say. 

Respectfully, I wasn't.  I was thinking specifically of just about any single individual religion in making that statement.  

It isn't even remotely close whether the Catholic Church or Scouting has a bigger impact on the world.  If I run down the list of major religions - Catholicism, Protestantism, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc...  Whole cultures are built around these faiths.  People's lives, belief systems.  I love Scouting, but it's just a whole different kind of thing altogether.

I do agree with your last statement. I think they were really trying to make a different point.  Scouting has principles that apply to more than just one faith.  That much is certainly true. 

This is where the Scouting for Equality people have to be very deliberate.  What they seek is a end of membership requirements that require a belief in a higher power.  Picking fights with religious people is not the way to go about it.  They most certainly should not turn their movement into one which advocates for a removal of faith from Scouting. 

Scouting is an organization that promotes values.  If one community believes that good values can be taught without faith, then let them start a unit that does that.  But, do not in any way prevent the religious institution down the street from having a unit that believes in a faith component.  Further, when at a multi-unit event, allow for the fact that many units will look for things like saying grace before meals or a Sunday worship service.  America's the great melting pot - let's celebrate that.

3 hours ago, David CO said:

It says, "We believe Scouting is a force more powerful than one person or one religion."  I find this statement to be both arrogant and offensive.  Scouting is not a more powerful force than my religion.  

I think this quote just goes to prove Barry's point.

 

I have to agree with @David CO here. 

I'm giving these Scouting for Equality folks the benefit of the doubt and hoping that they simply chose some ridiculous wording.  The rest of the paragraph is fine and makes sense.  

One could easily argue the Scouting and it's principles are broader than any one religion.  But saying that Scouting is a force more powerful than any one religion is simply a ridiculous statement.  Scouting has a profound impact on many, many people.  Similarly, to many, the impact of Scouting on their individual lives is probably bigger than their faith - of that I have no doubt.  But, if one looks at the impact of religion on the world and of Scouting on the world, clearly religion has a bigger, more powerful impact.  I say this to in no way negatively characterize Scouting - Scouting is an amazing program.  But, this is an absurd comparison.

Same here.  Attend service at our CO.

Possibly that he really thinks of himself as a volunteer who's now charged to run the ship.

If I were hired to the CEO role of our Scout council, I don;t know if I'd really consider myself a Scouting professional either.  I'd consider myself a volunteer who now has a job to run the council. It's neither respecting or disrespecting the professionals - just simply that he doesn't think of himself as one.

3 hours ago, David CO said:

Some donate 30 grand to do that... others $10, 000...others $3,000.

I will say though - as a district/council volunteer myself, I know that there are indeed plenty of well heeled volunteers - but not everyone.  

Cheers & thanks for the insight!  Much appreciated.

Much appreciated @jjlash.  I'm 100% in sync with you.  As a repeat WB staffer, I see the same issues and we have the same conversations at a local level.  I appreciate you seeing my comments for what they were - friendly feedback.

I look forward to hearing how the course goes.  Maybe we'll both be there in 2021

2 hours ago, David CO said:

They donate money.  Like the awards, the prestige positions go mostly to those who have big bucks.  

 I guess that makes sense - who you know and your ability to donate money to get known. 

I imagine it's also like other things- you work your way up by climbing the ladder.  Some people take 30 years to do that, others 10 - others 3.

I found his Linked In profile. . Looks like he was at Heart of America Council for about 7 years.  That's a very respectable amount of longevity. 

He's been at the Summit for a little under 2 years.  Makes me wonder if he either just didn't like the Summit role or if he simply wanted to return to a council.  I have to imagine that for some, being a SE at a major council is a very exciting role.

We had a local Scouter that I was lobbying we should nominate for one.  This chap wasn't an area or region Scouter, but he'd had significant impact on Scouting over decades.  Everyone I talked with about it thought it would never get selected.  I was more optimistic.

On another tangent - I always wondered how one becomes an area/region Scouter.  The only three I know were people who were long time Council scouters who moved up.  But, I assume that not everyone waits 30 years to make that transition.  I wonder how anyone serves at that level for decades.  Guess like anything it's who you know.  Topic for another thread I suppose.

@jjlash - thanks again for adding your insight here.  It's been very helpful.

Since you're on staff and I know that occasionally other national folks check this forum, let me generally second @mrjohns2 comment.  

I think it's pretty natural for people who are weighing taking a 4-6 day course to look at it and ask - "is this worth it for me?"  Wood Badge gets this question a lot already - what will we do, what should I expect, is it work 2 days off from work, and is it work $250 to attend?

In the case of SLC or PLC, it's $450, 5 or 6 days off from work, and probably a plane ticket ($500), so it's even more likely folks are going to kick the tires.  Myself, I spend a lot of time on Scouting, but going to my wife and saying I'm going to head off to leadership class for a week requires a bit of a sell.  I'm not suggesting that the staff document every bit of the course and give away some of the "ahh ha" moments - but putting info out there like we've been discussing I think would help with enrollment.  I'd probably even go further and suggest that some info on how the activities planned will help equip me as a leader would be good too.  

Please don't take my comment as a criticism.  Instead, I'd just be happy to see the program be even more popular and am optimistic that some additional promotion might help.  Then again, maybe given staff and other constraints the program is currently full and it makes sense to only open it to those that are committed enough to seek this kind of program out.

About a year ago, we had to take a BSA online course underscoring the importance of truth in membership numbers.  How times have changed.

Your silver beaver insight is intereting.

I wonder what they do for Silver Antelopes.  I've only seen one person who had received one.  But, I do imagine there are lots of nominations

3 hours ago, jjlash said:

You are right that it is 6 days of team building activities - but they are not the simple/staged/forced/artificial activities that you're probably envisioning.  Things are more scenario based.  Without giving anything away, the activities include: cooking (crews prepare their own dinners), challenge events (low COPE), wilderness first aid scenarios, realistic first aid (moulage), geocaching challenge, search and rescue scenarios.  Woven into these is a lot of West Virginia history and several practical skills like LNT, UTM and using radios in a field exercise.  There is a backpacking overnight, a conservation project and a rededication to Scouting ceremony.

You can see how there is lots of team building opportunity without being traditional team building activities.  And remember - this is not an outdoor skills session, it is a leadership session.  You will (may) learn some new outdoor skills or activities that you can take back to your unit but the focus for the course is on the leadership aspects of the activity.

Philmont is in my soul but Im excited to visit Summit and have that whole new experience.  And, I too can drive so that's a bonus.

 

 

Thank you again @jjlash.  This continues to be great background info and very helpful as I discern whether this is a good fit for me.  My sense is yes - this would be helpful in continuing to grow as a leader in Scouting - particularly in this era with parents and leaders from so many backgrounds.

I checked again and we're still on for a summer family trip that same week.  I'll have to keep it on the list for 2021.

I don't, but it sounds like he's had a number of high profile rolls.  On paper, sounds like an impressive resume for a SE.

This is what we've seen in our district too.  Even the DAOM did not have many nominations.  I understand our neighboring districts are similar.

Since we'd have 2 or 3 nominations for most categories, the selection was a discussion amongst the awards committee.

I would encourage you to decide whether you'd enjoy the role.  Whatever role we taken on as volunteers, it's important to find the fun in it.  Is there something about being RT commissioner that you'd enjoy? Perhaps the ability to put your mark on Roundtable and to work with others to make it happen?  Perhaps the ability to find and inspire others who might have similar interests to yours.  Also, you might find that this role provides some new challenges and is a fun adventure.

Yet, I would not take it out of a sense of pressure.  There will always be opportunities to serve and I've found it's important to take on roles you are interested in.  If you look at this and say "ugh, I really don't want to do that", then don't feel compelled to.