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Everything posted by OldEagle4Life

  1. Secret DE, How about a case of an adult who gets falsely accused of something, say some form of child endangerment. It seems from these discussions the BSA's policy when it comes to these issues would be to act immediately and terminate a leader's membership. But since we've also had several forum members say the BSA is not an investigatory institution, would a leader falsely accused ever be allowed back into service with a unit if the BSA does not do followups on this information themselves. Since I assume that this kind of accusation would be reported to the authorities, would they c
  2. A parent recently asked a question at our last troop comittee meeting that we were unable to answer so I thought I would put it here at the forums, since I think this would be a dodged question by our council execs. The question basically came down to this: There has been a lot of headline news over the country in the past few years of leaders being removed from thier positions of trust due to accusations and lawsuits over inappropriate behavior and actions both in and out of the scouting world. If a leader is removed from his/her position in scouting by the Council/Region/National d
  3. As a former Summer Camp Program Director, let me tell you, the Advancement Committe in our council, while they do "sign off" on summer camp councilors as MB councilors, they do not do ANYTHING in regards to quality control. In fact, when we wrote the letter for the Council Advancement chair to sign, authorizing our staff to be councilors (only the 18+ year olds mind you, since of course the under 18 year olds CANNOT be councilors, yet they are doing the majority of the supposed "teaching") he signed it no problem. Then I noticed names missing from the list, went back through, added them, sai
  4. If that is the case, then it begs to ask the question why people aren't supporting that council, why they aren't doing popcorn, why they aren't going to the sumer camps? If they are (we have seen no information on some of these aspects, so all any of us here can do is speculate) then the problem does indeed lie elsewhere, and while I would LOVE to blame it on bad management it very well could indeed be in large part do to these other circumstances. But what if it isn't? What if there really is a bigger problem. Even if it is "disloyalty" to the council (I personally think disloyalty
  5. In my troop, we typically have multiple boys make eagle a year (3+ is not uncommon). As a result, due to the complexity, the amount of planning, time needed to organize one, and anything everything else that goes into planning and executing an ECOH, we typically only do 1 a year. While some people argue that this lessons the signifigance of an individual achieving Eagle (no one in our troop complains along these lines, I would say because we don't present the option of individual ECOH's, if someone ever asked for one and would be willing to help/do most of the planning, we would of course all
  6. Well apparently someone did not do their budget right for this council, or else they would not have to charge 52 dollars a head, a year in addition to registration fees i would assume ( i have yet to see anything on that aspect of the council's budget) and FOS, and popcorn, etc... A scout office can look nice and serve an important function, but does not have to be large and extravagent. When you go to buy clothes, most of Americans today do not go for the builidng that looks the shinest, but for the most economical, close by, and shopper smart choice. Unfortunately the BSA has a monopo
  7. Wow, ya beat me to it. I was so prepared to say something when i saw the ID phrase, but got distracted. And look, before I could say something about someone saying something, someone ELSE has said something!! AHH too many users online and too many active threads right now. But definetly, interesting choice of words
  8. My Philmont crew was set up as such 9 youth 3 adults 1 Crew Chief (rather than trail chief but same difference) 1 assistant Crew Chief 1 Navigator 1 assistant navigator 1 Chaplain's aide 2 "cooks" 2 "camp organizers" Those last 2, i just made up the name now, because I can't remember what we called them. Everyone had a job. Job's at Philmont are important, it helps everyone to know what has to be done, and to make sure that someone is always responsible for making sure it happens. Whether that is making the big decisions, figuring out which way is North and South
  9. I have never heard of anyone denied eagle for not attending the seminar. It has been around for I would say, 3 years now give or take. Most people have no problem attending the seminars, some learn things, especially if they are from a "joe schmo" troop. I just personally dislike interference, whether meant to be positive or negative, of this nature on any level. The seminars are offrered every month, at every district roundtable (so there are 4 place you can go every month to get this done). You also could schedule one if you have a group who would like to do it, and they were offered,
  10. On page 23 of this publication it states "No Council, District, unit or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from any advancement requirement. OldGreyEagle, when you quoted this and the above lines talking about the executive board, you were talking about the national exec board, right? I felt this related enough to post on this thread...COUNCIL's adding requirements for advancement. My council has a requirement that makes all scouts, once they are star or life, attend a seminar on Eagle. They can go any time once they turn star (so they may have several years to do t
  11. I can see this happening to my council in just a few years, at least to a degree. They currently are moving to a new headquarters, which at the current size of their professional operation IS too small. But the new building is huge, at least 4-5 times bigger than what they have now, and are making due with at this point. Confernece rooms, training rooms, huge lobby, museum, etc... are not necessary. And this is the scaled down model, from the 2 story monster they were going to build 2 years ago (I saw the 3d model, it was huge). Now the plans are for a 1 story builidng that is even smaller t
  12. I don't know if it is a requirement, when I went to Philmont we never even discussed the possiblity of using single person tents, primarily because we use troop tents and the troop doesn't own any personal tents (buddy system!!). I know that our ranger, and the leader in our troop who subsequently became a philmont ranger used a single person tent, but that was out of convience and the fact that the ranger shouldn't need to have anyone else sharing a tent with you for the hopefully 2 days they will be with you. Our troop has always taken T4's (timberline's) and slept 3 to a tent, whether
  13. Just continuing another lively discussion on the true meaning of the G2SS. Hence the reason i started this thread. It has been good to see everyone's ideas and comments concerning liquid fuels. Honestly, if the scouts went out on a patrol campout, we would encourage them to use charcoal, rather than liquid fuels...would probably "reek vengence" on them if they used anything but sanctioned fire starters to start a fire. The only thing I would not be sure about would be propane cylinders. While they are liquid fuels, I feel much safer about them (well, assuming the people using them are
  14. On a cub scout level I can see why this song might be a little ambigious in its usage, with the references in the main verse to "horrible ways to die!" And there are the subsequent versions about: Santa Claus is DEAD Here Comes peter cotton tale, hopping down the bunny trail, BANG my personal favorite that we created a few years ago was Who lives in a pineapple under the sea, Sponge Bob Square Pants has DROWNED (but then again, i hate spongebob and think he is an entirely innapropriate cartoon for youngersters, even before the entire androgonous comments about the car
  15. Looking at the camping equipment post, I spun this off to get ideas, sorry if it has already been discussed. According to the Guide to Safe Scouting : "Knowledgeable adult supervision must be provided when Scouts are involved in the storage of chemical fuels, the handling of chemical fuels in the filling of stoves or lanterns, or the lighting of chemical fuels. The use of liquid fuels for starting any type of fire is prohibited." Which is of course a safety measure. But what about patrol camping, when there are no adults supervising, or for that matter on the camping trip what so ev
  16. I would think that the worst potential intruder would be a parent who does not have custody of a child, at least that was the big thing at my camp. We were worried about random people of course, the news is only a big problem when we already have an issue in camp, and anyways, how in the world can you identify a sex offender on sight. Even if you have a photo list of sex offenders in the surrounding area, being able to recongnize them and make that connection...is just far fetched. We worried that a parent who did not have custody of a child would come into camp and take the child away. S
  17. The crux of the argument with anything involving the ACLU, or any other 1st, 2nd or 35 millionth amendment is that it should provide for everyone to be equal under the law. How that is interpreted is of course the big debate. How far do we or should we take equality. Should it be in every little niche of our lives, should we regulate how people are treated equally in schools, in the work place, in the bedroom??? I agree with the notion that the ACLU is proposing, that by allowing a organization, (any organization I will not single out the BSA, even though that is the group being highl
  18. A good centimental song to use I think is Israel K (don't ask me please to spell his last name) version of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" its been used in many popular shows and movies lately and TV commercials...most notably 50 First Dates, and the episode of ER where Dr.Greene died a few years ago. Its a very moving version of the song with a Ukelele. Others songs I use in scout slide shows are: Road to Perdition Soundtrack Photograph by Nickelback Someday by Nickelback (say the word "hell" but our camp chaplin only raised an eyebrow at it) Time of Your Life by Greenday St
  19. When my troop was a super troop of 60 plus, in our minds, if you didn't have at least 20 (or 25) go on a campout it was considered a bad turnout, and we would get a little disappointed. However, once the troop downsized, and were left with around 30 scouts, we were very happy when we had a dozen go on a campout. We've gone camping with less, and we have cancelled when there are less than 3 scouts planning on going, but that is only a rare event. It is just so much effort, and time for the adults, to go camping, and while it is benefitial and all for the boys of course, if they themselves are
  20. Our troop just passed the 20 year mark about 2 years ago (I guess that would make us 22 now ) We had 50 in 1999, and we are up to 75 now. Considering our first eagle was roungly 4-5 years into the troop's formation, that is roughly 18 years for 75 eagles (4 per year average). We actually usually have 1-2 a year, but we have had several cub scout dens over the last 7 years stay together all the way through boy scouts and make eagle together, giving us 7 or 8 in a single year, for about 3 years. That just sky rockted our numbers. Looking over our numbers in the past, I would say we have had r
  21. Our troop just passed the 20 year mark about 2 years ago (I guess that would make us 22 now ) We had 50 in 1999, and we are up to 75 now. Considering our first eagle was roungly 4-5 years into the troop's formation, that is roughly 18 years for 75 eagles (4 per year average). We actually usually have 1-2 a year, but we have had several cub scout dens over the last 7 years stay together all the way through boy scouts and make eagle together, giving us 7 or 8 in a single year, for about 3 years. That just sky rockted our numbers. Looking over our numbers in the past, I would say we have had r
  22. My town, of 45,000 has 11 boy scout troops, and 8 cub scout packs inside of it. We are a moderate sized town, and most of the troops are flourishing. I would say the average is 30 scouts per troops. A few are a bit larger, a few a bit smaller. My own troop used to have 60+ boys and our "feeder" pack used to have close to 100, including tiger cubs. I have to concur with the note about professionals saying that if you don't like the troop you're in "start your own". My troop has a good program, the other troops in the town all have good programs. I know the vast majority of leaders in the ot
  23. This actually came up in a conversation I had with several people concerning the camp my troop use to attend for years. I came to find out that the camp, which charged between 195-225, per scout per week depending on when and how you signed up, had an operating budget for the summer of 230K (for all aspects of the summer camp program) and that they only spent 108K on summer camp related materials. In the end they made over 100K for the summer in profit. When I inquired about how that money gets spent, the professional i was talking with pulled out a pie chart and showed how all the money was
  24. ASM416: Sorry to hear that you guys will be going back this year. This camp has many major problems, if its not too late...run!!! Scout9933: I hope things do work out, but fortunately the council can't sell this camp (or any of their remaining camps). In the past when they were Cash poor and land rich the council sold other properties they owned which angered many of the leaders and scouts in the council, since they sold the most popular of the camps. Now they have 3 camps left, not bad pieces of land, but from what I'm told they only kept schoellkopf because it was given to them throug
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