nolesrule

I love it. A STATE law regarding how you can or can't use your FEDERAL Tax ID. (shakes head)

Trademarks are a defend it or lose it kinda thing. If you don't take it to court, you can kiss your traademark goodbye. It's not about spending money on lawyers. It's a business decision regarding your assets. You wouldn't let someone walk into your garage and take your car. Why would you let them take an intangible asset either?

When it comes down to it, BSA is just a youth program. Most religious institutions have a youth director who runs their youth programs. Do we think it's creepy if they don't have children in the program (or no children at all)? What about Big Brothers/Big Sisters? Is that program creepy? My late father-in-law (who was an Eagle Scout and a SM at one point before he had only daughters) mentored middle school students in his free time (he was on the verge of retirement when he passed). Is that creepy? One of the units I serve as a unit commissioner has a SM that's been there for a very long time. ASMs and MCs change in that troop, but he's been the SM for the majority of years the troop has been around. There are troops that have the same SM for decades and there are some that change SMs every 3-4 years, like the troop I was in as a boy. Both ways work perfectly well if it's the right people serving as leaders.

I still wear my 1989 NSJ patch on my uniform. I even use the Jambo name tag. Go ahead and wear yours in the appropriate place above the right pocket. You earned it.

As I pointed out in the previous thread on this topic, the BSA's congressional charter grants them a broader scope on trademarks than normal trademark law would allow (and the provision of the charter does not violate the Constitution which would be required to void that portion of the charter), so it's not the same as the Coca Cola example.

I think it was supposed to be a rhetorical question, and in that sense it is applicable. This discussion is about rewarding Wood Badge staff and course director beads for something other than being Wood Badge course director or staff.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

I think, but I'm not positive, that he was referring to the pocket certificates.

"5. While a Star Scout, serve actively 6 months in one or more of the positions of responsibility listed in requirement 5 for Star Scout (or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop). " The requirement itself is a total of 6 months. Doesn't matter how many positions held or when they are held (other than WHILE a Star Scout). If a Boy is Star for a year, he could server the last 3 months of a POR at the beginning of his tenure, take 6 months to just be a regular patrol member if he wants, and then begin another position that covers the last 3 months of the requirement (and it doesn't need to be the same position as the first 3 months.

I had a 5 day leeway after my Eagle BOR (8/8 and 18th b-day was 11/13), so I could have earned a Bronze Palm. Unfortunately, I went off to college about a two weeks after my Eagle BOR. GW is right about "because it is there". I know it seems silly, but so many years later it still feels like unfinished business, even if it is primarily a merit badge/tenure award (and I had earned plenty of additional merit badges already). Heck, I regret not finishing Eagle a year or two earlier, but it was my own fault.

Actually, it's about trademark infringement. Copyright infringement is a whole 'nother beast.

The parents.

"On top of that they aren't even proper American flags, their ascpect ration, like most "American flags", is wrong. " There is no law that specifies the proportion of American flags, and the executive order describing such proportions in the 19:10 ratio only applies to executive agencies and certain military uses (the DOD has specific authorization to modify the ratio as needed). An executive agency is an agency under the Executive branch of the U.S. federal government.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

"Readin' the charter language (thanks, nolesrule), I have to believe da charter has a constitutionality problem as well. Recall that the constitution allows congress to grant exclusive rights only for a limited time, eh? If the district court ruling goes against Wrenn based on da charter, that would be an interestin' cause for appeal, with a fairly recent SCOTUS case on point in Wrenn's favor. " Actually, "limited time" applies only to patents (currently about 20 years) and copyrights (something like 90 years past the death of the creator...thank you Disney). The time limits do not apply to trademarks, due to their nature as an identity. For example, "Mickey Mouse", whether the name or a character drawing is an identity belonging to WDC. A Mickey Mouse animated film is a copyrighted work. The process or process used in creating an animated film are patentable. Edited to add this point...trademarks can be lost through not defending them when they are infringed. That does not occur with patents or copyrights, which can be defended in court any time before they expire.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

Changes to the contents of the handbook aside (since they are materially irrelevant), don't you think it's a bit unscout-like to accuse someone of malicious intent in regards to what may have been simply an incorrect attribution without any shred of evidence? It's completely possible that he was provided with a resource containing attributed quotes to be included and that list contained the errors. Or maybe it was just a brain fart. Typos and fact errors make it through multiple levels of editing in the publishing world all the time. It's usually by accident. Having said that, if National is aware of the errors, then they should have seen to it that the errors were corrected for the next printing or edition following the discovery. "About 12 years ago I started alerting every BSA executive I met about the errors, but it was always somebody else's job. They usually gave me that "somebody else's" phone number, but my follow-up calls were never returned." I run a website that covers a minor sports league. Every year the league publishes a record and fact book, and every year it contains the same errors (and sometimes more). For over a decade I would notify the people listed as the editors of the book about the errors, and finally I gave up because they wouldn't do anything about it. It can be frustrating.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

Beavah and Kudu, I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that the BSA does have a case. Having recently learned about trade dress and secondary meaning, I think it can arguably be applied in the BSA's favor. In addition, since the BSA is relying on the charter, I just took a look at excerpts from the charter, and there is a section on exclusivity rights, and here's what it says ("the corporation" referring to BSA)... "The corporation has the exclusive right to use emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, and words or phrases the corporation adopts." It seems the charter may indeed trump regular trademark law, since it's a Congressional charter and only Congress can make laws regarding copyrights, patents and trademarks. It's up to the judicial system to resolve this conflict. If Congress had the power to exempt Major League Baseball from the Sherman Antitrust Act, it can exempt the BSA from certain limitations of trademark law. Mini slightly off topic rant time... As for the USPTO, they get things wrong all the time. Their mission is no longer to apply the law properly to determine validity of applications, but collect as many application FEES as possible (I mean process as many applications as possible) and let the courts later determine if they made a mistake. You see it more in patent cases, but it happens with trademarks too. Rant off... That said, I have personally filed and hold two registered trademarks through the USPTO.

"Aphorisms falsely attributed to Baden-Powell such as "Scouting is a Game with a Purpose" (William Hillcourt) and "The Patrol Method is not ONE method in which Scouting can be carried on. It is the ONLY method!" (Roland Phillips) are featured prominently in the third edition, impossible to miss if Bob Birkby, or anyone else at BSA HQ (or any Wood Badge Course Director) had ever skimmed through the BSA's own publications. " Is that "falsely attributed" or "incorrectly attributed"? There's a difference of intent within the connotations of those two phrases. Perhaps the guy made a mistake. It's up to the editors (BSA) to correct it.

Yeah, I meant to change that when I was doing my final edit before posting. I meant to apply that to concepts covered by "trade dress", which don't have a mechanism for registration. You know how that is. You re-write a post once or twice before hitting the submit button but forget to change one of the points. :-)

The thing about trademarks is that while they don't allow you to have a monopoly on all usage (with the exception of "super brands", they allow you to have a monopoly on usage within your specified market segment. There is also the issue of trade dress, which goes beyond just words and into appearance (uniform, program, etc.). Trademark secondary meaning probably also applies to the terms "scout" and "scouting" as well. So, the BSA does have a solid case involving "scouts" as a youth organization (regardless of the charter). Basically, trademark law under the Lanham Act can apply to "imitating a little too much" (registration of trademarks is not required, though it helps), and this has nothing to do with a Congressional charter.

I'm sure damaging the limbs is a possibility, depending on the bow construction. All that energy has to be released somewhere. The limbs could break, the bow could jump out of your hand. I was mainly referring to the low-power bows used at camps. Back to the original topic, we had hatchet or tomahawk throwing (I can't remember which) when I attended the 1989 NSJ as part of the pioneering area, along with cracking bull whips, where I managed to knock the safety goggles off my own face (how's that for safety).

"Hmmmm . .. hadn't thought of that. I'd always been told to never dry fire a bow. " The danger of a dry-fired bow is exactly why we are taught not to do that. It'd be nice if they explain why rather than just say "don't do it". Otherwise, someone might be tempted to find out why on their own. You should also add avoiding wooded areas to the list. We don't want to risk getting splinters. You never know what medical complications could occur.

"Do you fellow Christians really believe that GOD doesn't care if you vote for someone who supports abortion? You're kidding yourself if you think HE will overlook that." Not all religions that believe in God share the same fundamental beliefs about these types of issues, and it's outside the government's rights to legislate the beliefs of any particular religious group onto others. All or nothing attitudes, tyranny of the majority, and all that. The term "Judeo-Christian values" is way to broad a term to be able to apply values uniformly to the groups that it implies are included (yes, I know the term wasn't used here, but it needs to be said).

GW, why would bows without arrows be okay? You can still get a nasty arm burn from the string when dry-fired.

This is a beautiful example of what American politics has turned into. Does this board have a roll-your-eyes emoticon? And it seems our esteemed original poster registered his account just to make these posts.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

"What I do have a problem with is the BSA laying legal claim to common words like scouts, tenderfoot, troop, bear, wolf, etc. Those words were around decades before the BSA decided to incorporate them into their program. " It's part of trademark protection. You have to defend them or lose the exclusive rights within your market space (in this case youth organizations). And without the rights, anyone can set up a youth organization mirroring the BSA with the same exact terminology. There's a reason why the ranks all have the word "Scout" after them in their name. How would you really feel if some other youth organization established an "Eagle Scout" as their highest advancement rank, and perhaps used some of the others as well? Wouldn't that dilute the term "Eagle Scout"? Unless you've been in a similar position, it can be hard to understand the real value of a trademark, and more specifically the legal requirement to defend it (i.e. if you don't, you lose the trademark protection). There's nothing wrong with competition, but that competition shouldn't be able to create confusion by usurping and mirroring your identifying terminology and claiming thit for themselves.

"Call me stupid or not, but wouldn't it be a bit more thriftier if one would just skip the questionable plastic bag and just boil the egg in it's own natural shell? And if this is the Sunday am rush to break camp meal, why not just cook in the mess kit, put it back together, drop it in a plastic bag and take it home to wash. I can do an bacon/onion omelet faster than most people can boil their huge pot of eggs. " First off, you can't throw cheese, onions and other veggies into a hard boiled egg to make a quick omelet. :-) Second, you can make 8 omelets faster than it takes to throw 8 bagged-egg omelets in a pot of boiling water? Could you please work the omelet station at every Sunday brunch I've ever been to? I hate waiting in line. I'd never pan-cook more than 2-3 omelets in a given meal because part of having a meal together is, well, actually being able to eat together. I'm not a fan of cold omelets.