Basementdweller

I am more concerned with adults being friends with 12yo on Facebook.

We live in two different United States.

My son is into his 3rd year as a cub scout

I stepped up half way through his Tiger year to help as an Assistant Den Leader

Have held ADL, ACM, CM and now going through yet another application to be CC for our troop.

Along the way, I filled out I think 4 additional applications to replace "lost" paperwork.

so in less than three years, I've filled out something like 8 membership applications..... all so I could volunteer.

I haven't moved.

I haven't changed phone numbers

I haven't changed email addresses.

Yes, it's a stupid system.

My son is into his 3rd year as a cub scout

I stepped up half way through his Tiger year to help as an Assistant Den Leader

Have held ADL, ACM, CM and now going through yet another application to be CC for our troop.

Along the way, I filled out I think 4 additional applications to replace "lost" paperwork.

so in less than three years, I've filled out something like 8 membership applications..... all so I could volunteer.

I haven't moved.

I haven't changed phone numbers

I haven't changed email addresses.

Yes, it's a stupid system.

Horizon your one messed up fellow....shakin my head.

If the fellow is going to all the trouble to start a new unit.

Membership applications are the least of his problem or worry. Take the 5 minutes and fill it out.

Remember all the ruckus a couple of years ago when they first started doing mandatory background checks and everyone, at least in my council, had to fill out new apps.

My point is if your to lazy to fill out the application again, then maybe your to lazy to be looking at starting a new unit.

hmmmm, so an application is too much bother to fill out for a seperate unit.

Makes you wonder if Youth protection training, tour permits and the Guide to Safe scouting are too much of a bother as well.

I call BS on the economy......It is an excuse for people not to spend money if they don't want to. Looking at the boys in my troop and the gifts they received this year......the economy is just fine.

 

 

I you want any other fundraising approved you had better sell popcorn first, at least round here, otherwise you other fundraising opportunity will be denied, well that is if you actually apply for it thru council.

 

 

Far as fundraisers go......Last day camp, they charged$85 per, with a budget of $15 per including Tshirt, Then the Tshirts had sponsorship logos all over the back, so they are making $70 per scout, or how about the $15 BS camporee with a $3 patch, donated site and porta johns....

 

They can cry me a river about money and fundraising.

So exactly where does your unit get the money from to subsidize your campouts????

Is it dues???? or out of a leaders pocket.

your just playing a shell game with who is paying for what.

While a $30 camping weekend is not much for some of you, it is nearly a deal breaker for my unit.

So you charge me $15 for a camporee, I then need to buy food and fuel which is about $15 a head.

Then I buy the supplies for my station at the camporee.

All this so the SE can have a house on the golf course or the new corvette. No thanks.

just an other rich boy, like the lad in Texas who killed those people driving drunk.....Oh my dad will get me out of this.

The parents sole income was from renting 4 beach houses in costa rica....and who picks up and moves to be near their son's trial.

I am going to guess he was raised in an environment of no consequences.

I really enjoyed the part where he filed court papers to have the domains, laptop and bitcoins returned to him. Ok, just admit guilt right???

In my opinion, eaning the Eagle rank, and being and Eagle Scout are two different things.

It is a shame that the general public that labels every member of the BSA a boy scout doesn't have that same standard, what ever it is.

I am more concerned with adults being friends with 12yo on Facebook.

Have you met every single person face to face on your daughters facebook friend list???? I bet No, Are you comfortable with that????

Are you sure every single one of the people on her list are who they protray themselves as on facebook?

Yet you object to Troop leadership, who you met, being friends with them???? Seems odd to me.

Of course I do not know your troop leadership, they could be complete dirtbags, but I don't know that.

One suggestion I would make is that if you want to talk about his Facebook behavior then directly talk about his Facebook behavior, don't beat around the bush asking how he feels he lives the Oath and Law, don't put out bait and see if he'll bite. You want to talk to him about a topic talk about that topic.

 

Twelve year old boys are not so self aware nor so discerning that most of them will catch your hints. For the most part that path will leave you frustrated and him confused until he either stumbles on what you want or you finally give it to him directly.

A question like "Do you think you have lived the scout oath, law and spirit since your last BOR?" and if he misses " Can you think of any instances where you think you didn't?" If he still misses then you get the ball peen hammer of "I read your facebook post from x days/weeks ago, how do you feel your post about X reflects the scout oath and law?" and smack him between the eyes with it.

Simply asking the question directly gets you no where.

In my opinion, eaning the Eagle rank, and being and Eagle Scout are two different things.

Is there a magical bar of ethics and behavior somewhere I am missing?????

Slapping on a backpack or car camping 25 nights doesn't make you a good person.

I think you have bought into the illusion that eagle is something more than it is......

I think that romantic notion is dead, Probably about the time of Green Bars first departure from the BSA

The most profound line in the article....

He was a rare set of contradictions, a humanitarian willing to kill, a criminal with a strict code of ethics.

Flame time. Just because a boy puts on a Boy Scout uniform. Yes, he has done all that is required, the shirt with all the patches, belt, pants, socks, maybe a hat and necker. He has all the check boxes filled out on the Inspection Sheet. Does that make him a Boy Scout? Or are there other factors that come to play beyond the requirements? Well, what about when they pin an Eagle medallion on him? He, too, has all the check boxes filled in....

 

If all the boy has to do to reach the goal is make the trek from Scout to Eagle, that's fine, but is it the patch at the end or journey that makes the difference? Are we making too much ado about the patch instead of the journey?

 

Stosh

Yes, I have. The resolution was for me to reluctantly leave the leadership. My son remains as a Bear Cub. He absolutely loves Scouts, and I will not remove him as long as the leaders continue to treat him well.

 

It's very awkward as his den leader is the CC who treated me so poorly. I continue to offer help with den activities (like arranging a visit from my deputy sheriff friend to the den), and I continue to be ignored as though I don't exist. It's sad.

 

I was asked to be the treasurer for my son's Cub Scout pack for the 2012-2013 school year. As a part of my job, I tried to give our financial figures to the PTA (our CO) for inclusion in the PTA's 990 tax filings.

 

I was particularly concerned as I knew the PTA had no treasurer at all at the time, and I was concerned about making sure the PTA was filing its taxes on time. The PTA treasurer had suddenly moved out of state, and several months went by before a replacement was found. There was no one in the chair to file the taxes, so naturally I wondered if it was being done.

 

I was voluntold to be the PTA treasurer, without being asked first, and refused. It was particularly unsettling that the principal was told I had accepted the job before *I* was told I had "accepted" the job.

 

Anyway, as a lifelong small businessperson, I take taxes very seriously. In doing my due diligence to make sure our Cub Scout income and expenses were included in the filing of the CO's 990, I found out that the CO had not included the pack's income or expenses in the 990 filings for the entire seven years the pack had been in existence.

 

No taxes filed or paid on over $100,000 in income to the pack over a seven year period. Also, the bank account did not have an EIN or an SSN, just some weird made up number.

 

I notified the pack leadership, and tried to get the taxes filed. I told them I was very concerned as I was a signer on the bank account and therefore personally liable for the unpaid taxes and fines. I was asked to shut up.

 

I talked to the PTA about it, and then got a call from the pack leaders who told me to shut up on orders from the Council.

 

The pack leaders insisted that the IRS didn't want to prosecute nice people helping kids, and I had no reason to be concerned. I knew from personal experience that this was self-serving bullshit.

 

I tried to explain to the pack leaders that I had been to this rodeo before. As a teenager, my parents got in trouble for tax evasion. I was grilled at age 19 by IRS enforcement who were looking for ways to hold me responsible for my parents' tax debt. I was told, in person, to my face, by the IRS enforcement agent that if I had ever at any point been a signer on my parents' business bank accounts, the IRS could hold me liable for the entire tax debt.

 

The pack leaders thought I should take the word of the BSA over the IRS. Sorry, but no. I showed the pack leaders the documentation from the IRS supporting my concerns. I was told that I was personally offending the pack leaders by even suggesting the BSA would ever do anything improper and that I was hurting the kids and the program by not being supportive of the BSA.

 

So, I went to my CPA on my own time and my own dime to again check my concerns. My CPA told me I was right and I needed to "get out of Dodge". He told me the PTA and the pack could be fined as much as $5,000 to $7,000 in failure to file penalties, for which I would be liable as well. His recommendation was that I send a certified letter to the PTA with all of our pack figures and ask them to file them along with the 990. He said at least it would show I had done my best. He also recommended I have my name removed as a signer from the pack bank account.

 

When I told the pack, they told me they had no one to replace me so I would have to wait to have my name taken off the account. I told them I was not willing to wait. The CC replaced me as a signer.

 

The same day the PTA received my letter with the income and expenses, the BSA Council for my area called me at home to chew me out. "What are you doing!" "You have to be more political!" "The PTA hates the BSA and you're giving them an excuse to shut down all the packs and troops!" Etc.

 

This is ridiculous. Like it or not, it is a fact that our pack did not file or pay taxes for seven years, nor did the CO on the pack's behalf. Like it or not, that's illegal. Like it or not, I was personally on the hook for the mess I didn't make.

 

I should never have been in this position in the first place. I had nothing to do with the seven years of unfiled taxes. I just found the mess, and refused to sweep it under the rug. I have never, ever, cheated on my own taxes, and I'm not going to cheat on the pack taxes it was my responsibility to file.

 

I have lost *so* much respect for the BSA and the men in charge of my pack. It really is BullShitters Anonymous to me now. My son loves it so much that I'm not sure what to do but let him stay as long as it's a good experience for him. I'm hoping he'll outgrow it soon and move on willingly without being aware of this mess. He loves camping out with his dad, and I don't want to spoil that for him. Our son has no idea about the drama.

 

It is just lowlife for a grown man to call a volunteer mom at home and yell at her for trying to do the job she was asked to do in a legal and responsible manner. It is not my responsibility to deal with the "politics" between the PTA and the BSA. It is their responsibility to get their own contract straight so that each party understands who is responsible for legal requirements like filing and paying taxes. A volunteer mom should never have to stand between the BSA and the PTA hearing each party say "no, they're supposed to do it!". I'm too busy for this!

 

I quit the BSA and will never volunteer for them again. I'm at AHG now with my daughter, and it's great. I actually feel appreciated there.

 

My take on the BSA as a sadder but wiser volunteer for them is that they have incredible hubris at the District level and up. Most of the rank and file volunteers are great, but the people at the District and up who do this as a job are highly unethical and abusive to the volunteers who actually do all the work. It's sad. The bronze statue to the former BSA president just floored me, but I wasn't surprised.

 

GA Mom

Yes the American Heritage Girls are a WHITE CHRISTIAN RICH Girl organization. look on the map where the churches are that sponsor them.

Ya Georgia, if we where walking down a street toward each other, I guarantee that you would cross the street to get away from me.

The Plus, I still have all my teeth.

Boys will be boys.....He probably is acting like his friends. But that isn't an excuse.

Thank you for Standing up for what is right.

As Scoutmaster I am not involved in the BOR process, but I would have not signed off on his scout spirit and had a SMC about respect.

I would ask the usual BOR questions and about half way in, ask a leading question about scout spirit and if he thinks he is living the law and the oath. Basically fish, if he fails to clue in ask about his behavior on facebook and the way he treats his 700 friends.

The lad is 12. He has time to stumble on his race toward Eagle. Holding him back 6 months won't kill him. I would not pass him on his BOR based on the complaints regardless on how he responds. I am going to guess this lad has figured out how to work adults.

If he leaves scouting over it, then he really wasn't that interested.

Sad. Obviously the whole Oath and Law thing didn't really factor into his life much. Brings great discredit to other Eagle Scouts who do what they are supposed to.

 

Sentinel947

As many have said, Eagles are just people.

I am beginning to for the hypothesis that, They are just people who are given opportunity.

In my opinion, eaning the Eagle rank, and being and Eagle Scout are two different things.

Don't you just love a poster asking a very broad question and then never posting any follow up information.

1. A Committee Chairman who conducted a Scout's Eagle project for him while the Scout went to a school band function, then signed off on everything. The Council never knew because the whole committee went along and thought it was fine.

2. A SM who wanted to sue a ASM to recover summer camp scholarship fees who, for distance and religeous reasons, moved himself and his 2 sons to another troop.

2. That is why I don't like Troop Camperships. Troop and fundraising dollars are too hard to come by.

Yes, I have. The resolution was for me to reluctantly leave the leadership. My son remains as a Bear Cub. He absolutely loves Scouts, and I will not remove him as long as the leaders continue to treat him well.

 

It's very awkward as his den leader is the CC who treated me so poorly. I continue to offer help with den activities (like arranging a visit from my deputy sheriff friend to the den), and I continue to be ignored as though I don't exist. It's sad.

 

I was asked to be the treasurer for my son's Cub Scout pack for the 2012-2013 school year. As a part of my job, I tried to give our financial figures to the PTA (our CO) for inclusion in the PTA's 990 tax filings.

 

I was particularly concerned as I knew the PTA had no treasurer at all at the time, and I was concerned about making sure the PTA was filing its taxes on time. The PTA treasurer had suddenly moved out of state, and several months went by before a replacement was found. There was no one in the chair to file the taxes, so naturally I wondered if it was being done.

 

I was voluntold to be the PTA treasurer, without being asked first, and refused. It was particularly unsettling that the principal was told I had accepted the job before *I* was told I had "accepted" the job.

 

Anyway, as a lifelong small businessperson, I take taxes very seriously. In doing my due diligence to make sure our Cub Scout income and expenses were included in the filing of the CO's 990, I found out that the CO had not included the pack's income or expenses in the 990 filings for the entire seven years the pack had been in existence.

 

No taxes filed or paid on over $100,000 in income to the pack over a seven year period. Also, the bank account did not have an EIN or an SSN, just some weird made up number.

 

I notified the pack leadership, and tried to get the taxes filed. I told them I was very concerned as I was a signer on the bank account and therefore personally liable for the unpaid taxes and fines. I was asked to shut up.

 

I talked to the PTA about it, and then got a call from the pack leaders who told me to shut up on orders from the Council.

 

The pack leaders insisted that the IRS didn't want to prosecute nice people helping kids, and I had no reason to be concerned. I knew from personal experience that this was self-serving bullshit.

 

I tried to explain to the pack leaders that I had been to this rodeo before. As a teenager, my parents got in trouble for tax evasion. I was grilled at age 19 by IRS enforcement who were looking for ways to hold me responsible for my parents' tax debt. I was told, in person, to my face, by the IRS enforcement agent that if I had ever at any point been a signer on my parents' business bank accounts, the IRS could hold me liable for the entire tax debt.

 

The pack leaders thought I should take the word of the BSA over the IRS. Sorry, but no. I showed the pack leaders the documentation from the IRS supporting my concerns. I was told that I was personally offending the pack leaders by even suggesting the BSA would ever do anything improper and that I was hurting the kids and the program by not being supportive of the BSA.

 

So, I went to my CPA on my own time and my own dime to again check my concerns. My CPA told me I was right and I needed to "get out of Dodge". He told me the PTA and the pack could be fined as much as $5,000 to $7,000 in failure to file penalties, for which I would be liable as well. His recommendation was that I send a certified letter to the PTA with all of our pack figures and ask them to file them along with the 990. He said at least it would show I had done my best. He also recommended I have my name removed as a signer from the pack bank account.

 

When I told the pack, they told me they had no one to replace me so I would have to wait to have my name taken off the account. I told them I was not willing to wait. The CC replaced me as a signer.

 

The same day the PTA received my letter with the income and expenses, the BSA Council for my area called me at home to chew me out. "What are you doing!" "You have to be more political!" "The PTA hates the BSA and you're giving them an excuse to shut down all the packs and troops!" Etc.

 

This is ridiculous. Like it or not, it is a fact that our pack did not file or pay taxes for seven years, nor did the CO on the pack's behalf. Like it or not, that's illegal. Like it or not, I was personally on the hook for the mess I didn't make.

 

I should never have been in this position in the first place. I had nothing to do with the seven years of unfiled taxes. I just found the mess, and refused to sweep it under the rug. I have never, ever, cheated on my own taxes, and I'm not going to cheat on the pack taxes it was my responsibility to file.

 

I have lost *so* much respect for the BSA and the men in charge of my pack. It really is BullShitters Anonymous to me now. My son loves it so much that I'm not sure what to do but let him stay as long as it's a good experience for him. I'm hoping he'll outgrow it soon and move on willingly without being aware of this mess. He loves camping out with his dad, and I don't want to spoil that for him. Our son has no idea about the drama.

 

It is just lowlife for a grown man to call a volunteer mom at home and yell at her for trying to do the job she was asked to do in a legal and responsible manner. It is not my responsibility to deal with the "politics" between the PTA and the BSA. It is their responsibility to get their own contract straight so that each party understands who is responsible for legal requirements like filing and paying taxes. A volunteer mom should never have to stand between the BSA and the PTA hearing each party say "no, they're supposed to do it!". I'm too busy for this!

 

I quit the BSA and will never volunteer for them again. I'm at AHG now with my daughter, and it's great. I actually feel appreciated there.

 

My take on the BSA as a sadder but wiser volunteer for them is that they have incredible hubris at the District level and up. Most of the rank and file volunteers are great, but the people at the District and up who do this as a job are highly unethical and abusive to the volunteers who actually do all the work. It's sad. The bronze statue to the former BSA president just floored me, but I wasn't surprised.

 

GA Mom

OH THE DRAMA.

I am really glad your enjoying the Christian White girls only club.

Thinking about this again. I do love the slaps at 13 year old Eagles, since I was one (a month before my 14th Birthday). Nothing like telling a committed Scout he is not good enough.

 

So I meet a young man on the campus who tells me was an Eagle. Things I might find interesting:

 

What was your project?

Did you serve as SPL? (this gets more points for college admissions)

Philmont or equivalent?

Which merit badges do you remember?

 

Regardless though, I know that in one youth activity he did what it took to earn the highest achievement. He gets my respect, and my expectations for any future discussions as well.

 

One of my favorite compliments at the office one day was "You must have been an Eagle."

One of my favorite memories from college was that 1/3 of the men in my dorm were Eagles. None of us compared what it took, we just led the dorm campout to Yosemite.

Please cite your source.

The scout who's parents are involved/are an SM/ASM, probably do a lot more work to get their Eagle than the rest. They clean up after meetings, make sure the trailer is cleaned up after a campout, and just generally do a lot more detail work. That said, they also have more opportunities than the rest, which evens things out.

A leaders son does no more or less work than a non leaders son to earn his Eagle. But he probably does more work preparing for campouts, setting up meetings and such.

Thinking about this again. I do love the slaps at 13 year old Eagles, since I was one (a month before my 14th Birthday). Nothing like telling a committed Scout he is not good enough.

 

So I meet a young man on the campus who tells me was an Eagle. Things I might find interesting:

 

What was your project?

Did you serve as SPL? (this gets more points for college admissions)

Philmont or equivalent?

Which merit badges do you remember?

 

Regardless though, I know that in one youth activity he did what it took to earn the highest achievement. He gets my respect, and my expectations for any future discussions as well.

 

One of my favorite compliments at the office one day was "You must have been an Eagle."

One of my favorite memories from college was that 1/3 of the men in my dorm were Eagles. None of us compared what it took, we just led the dorm campout to Yosemite.

Did you even bother to read my statement????

Anyone who says you can judge a 13 or 14 year old and tell me what kind of man he is going to be is a liar. You never know.

I never said they were undeserving.

That would mean Eagle had some sort of moral or ethical standard.......It does not.

It means you completed a check list. thats all.

Did we succeed in helping form a young man of good character? That's my type of Eagle. I earned my Eagle and had drop and go parents. I turned out ok. Been aged out for a few years and I'm still active in my original unit. I don't think it matters. I wasn't the Scoutmasters son yet I always stayed after meetings and trips to help clean and organize. Good topic.

If you complete the check marks you earn it.

National, Council, District and Parents have removed the Troops ability to do any quality control.

If you doubt it, explain to me how boys who break law stealing, drug use or even sexual crimes still receives his Eagle.

If it is to ever return to anything more than a check list, then they need to start rejecting some of these substandard scouts.

We had a Male ASM who was active went camping with the troop every trip. Well while he was camping mom was cheating on him......Long story short. They separated mom wanted new boy friend to become a member of the troop. The COR and CC rejected his app because he is morally corrupt. I lost the scout and Dad/ASM over that. Mom had custody an pulled him from the troop.

So what are you talking about????

Impossible to offer advise without knowing.

Could be smoking in front of the boys to very public affairs????????? Obviously one is dealt with differently than the other.