mmhardy

A follow up.

From the Staff Handbook at Northern Tier.

NORTHERN TIER STAFF UNIFORMING POLICY

The Boy Scouts of America is a uniformed organization and wearing a uniform properly at Northern Tier is part of your job responsibility.....

Appropriate Uniforms

Option 1:

BSA Tan Shirt, short or long sleeve

BSA Olive Green Shorts or Pants

BSA Olive Socks with Red Top

Centennial Tan Shirt, short or long sleeve

Centennial Forest Green Convertible Pants

Centennial BSA Socks

Red Shoulder Tabs (or color of primary registration)

BSA Belt or Northern Tier Belt

Name Tag

Option 2:

BSA Venturing Shirt, short or long sleeve

BSA Venturing Shorts or Pants OR BSA Olive Shorts

BSA Gray Venturing Socks or BSA Olive Socks with Red Top

Green Shoulder Tabs

BSA Belt or Northern Tier Belt

Name Tag

Source

http://www.ntier.org/Resources/Brochures/2009%20Staff%20Policies.pdf

Lol...I have to say all the chattering about OFFICIAL this and REQUIRED that on shorts kinda creeps me out.

I'm with Beavah, if your going to try to dress down a 20 year old going into his Junior year in college who has been living on Ramen Noodles and Big Gulps your going to get a response like, "you buy them I'll wear them." Look clean and sharp, absolutely, but they are there at camp to work and teach not provide eye candy.

Anyone total up what a complete uniform costs these days? I'd rather have my son spend the money on a new suit and tie for interviews.

IMHO the uniform is for show. I find it unsuitable for real work in the field.

Not to sound too picky but I see alot of words like "recommend", "should" and "may". Like 99% of most Scouting stuff its not written in stone. Given the current economy as long as it looks sharp I would say let it go.

Personally I think the grey slacks make these guys look like your local sheriff. An identical dark green color pant or short looks more put together. Explorers had this in the 1950s. A white belt (seen on some Ship Crews) really looks sharp!

Quoted from another thread from 2004.

"The Venturer Handbook says on page 6 that the "recommended" uniform is the over priced pants, shorts, shirt, socks and hat. However it goes on to say that the uniform, if any, is the choice of the crew."

Bottom line is that the Venture uniform is the choice of the crew. Unless the camp has a specific dress code that applies to campers and staffers then it is what it is.

TheScout, your unconvincing. While you can dice the semantics for the liberal and conservative term finer, the root is unchanged. Im convinced that the formation of the United States via Declaration of Independence, fighting the revolution and establishment of a democratic representative republic is an inherently Liberal concept. In fact there is a school of thought that holds that Conservatism, at its core, is the antithesis of the American version of Democracy.

Whos ignorant of American Political history? Thomas Jefferson established the root of the Liberal movement in America. In fact his basic tenants hold true for liberals today.

Here is another one to chew on.

Banning Abortion

Prayer in Schools

Shrinking the Size of Federal Government

Etc.

I cant think of one Conservative agenda item in the past 30 years that the movement has been able to accomplish except win elections. If someone can point any gains I would be grateful.

Consider in 1770s in the American Colonies:

Conservative = Tory = British Loyalists

Liberal = Whig = Radical Minority Separatist

Ergo; Radical Minority Separatist = American Patriot = Founding Fathers of the United States

This historical tidbit always gives the Limbaugh fans fitsnow back to the show.

But how else can I protect my constitutional rights from an oppressive government?

Sell your house, cottage, boat, computer, cell phone and car. Shred your Visa. Convert all to cash and buy a farm and be off the grid. As long has your playing in society, your subject to its rules.

No amount of arming one's self to the teeth it going to protect you from oppression. If you feel that you need these things to live free then I submit your already living in an oppressive tyranny.

BTW...just looked up the SeaBase health forms. The "guidelines" are just that. Specifically:

Any participant or adviser who exceeds the maximum weight limits on the weight chart may want to reconsider participation in a Sea Base high adventure program. Anyone who exceeds these limits is at extreme risk for health problems. Participants who fall within the guidelines are more likely to have an enjoyable program and avoid incurring health risks. The absolute weight limit for our programs is 300 pounds.

The right hand column shows the maximum recommended weight for participating in a Sea Base high adventure

program. Anyone who exceeds these limits is at extreme risk for health problems. Individuals who exceed these limits may want to reconsider participation in a Sea Base high adventure program...

emphasis mine. Looks like the absolutes limit is 300lbs. which exceeds the capcity of much of their marine ladders and equipment.

LisaBob and Acco are right on. Most of the rest of the U.S. is clueless to the situation facing the inner city. Some of these street wise young men would take your CWP and clip it to your wet cold dead nose before you even knew what hit you. Then take your "Plastic" or "burner" and sell it for $100 within 30 minutes on the same street.

This is the opportunity to step back,look sideways, and reach out and make what may prove to be life long friendships with other like-minded parents like yourself. You may find your self looking forward to the troop meetings too. Look for ways to reach out to the current parents that are holding various volunteer positions. They always could use an extra hand and would appreciate it.

The standard line I invoke on new parents to a Troop is, Kids with parents that take an active role tend to become outgoing active leaders/citizens/parents themselves. You are the role model, and will always be looked up to by your children as an example.

Congratulations on a job well done. Keep up the good work.

The fact that the PA is even vaguely close to the German Enabling Act of 1933 should give every American pause. As to your question, a non-starter. Akin to "Do you personally know anyone who has been arrested for murder?" However there are plenty of examples. Consider the following cases of the Patriot Act's use toward US citizens just like you and I:

Homeland Security Agents Visit Toy Store

So far as she knows, Pufferbelly Toys owner Stephanie Cox hasn't been passing any state secrets to sinister foreign governments, or violating obscure clauses in the Patriot Act.

In Terror War, 2nd Track for Suspects

The Bush administration is developing a parallel legal system in which terrorism suspects -- U.S. citizens and noncitizens alike -- may be investigated, jailed, interrogated, tried and punished without legal protections guaranteed by the ordinary system, lawyers inside and outside the government say.

Court: U.S. Can Hold Citizens as Enemy Combatants

A federal appeals court today ruled that the government has properly detained an American-born man captured with Taliban forces in Afghanistan without an attorney and has legally declared him an enemy combatant.

Patriot Act Being Used to Harrass BlackBoxVoting.org website

It appears that they may be using the Patriot Act to circumvent some of the civil rights protections laid down in the 60s. You see, it is illegal for a government agency to go in and demand the list of all the members of a group. And you can't investigate leaks to journalists by going in and grabbing the reporter's computer.

Secret Service Questions Students

Some teachers in Oakland are rallying behind two students who were interrogated by the Secret Service. That followed remarks the teenagers made about the President during a class discussion. The incident has many people angry. It's good to see the real terrorists are being hunted down.

Boy investigated by FBI for researching paper on Chesapeake Bay Bridge

A 12-year-old kid at Boys' Latin researches a paper on the Bay Bridge, and suddenly the Joint Terrorist Task Force shows up in the headmaster's office.

Photographer Arrested "Under Patriot Act"

A Denver photographer was arrested while taking pictures in Denver, during Vice President Dick Cheney's visit to the city. Denver resident Mike Maginnis reports being physically assaulted by Denver police.

Webmaster Sherman Austin, Jailed under PATRIOT Act

Political prisoner Sherman Austin, who made headlines last year after being targeted as one of the first casualties of the infamous USA PATRIOT Act, was released from the Federal Corrections Institute in Tucson and left Arizona July 12 to return to Los Angeles.

Using The Patriot Act To Target Patriots

The Patriot Act has been used to obtain search warrants against doctors and scientists who had been warning about the threat of bioterrorism in the U.S.

Shopkeeper deported from South Carolina under PATRIOT Act killed in Pakistan

After marrying a naturalized U.S. citizen, having two U.S.-born children and running a Rock Hill convenience store for years, Khan was rounded up in post-Sept. 11, 2001, sweeps that targeted Muslim immigrants.

ARTISTS SUBPOENAED IN USA PATRIOT ACT CASE

Three Four artists have been served subpoenas to appear before a federal grand jury that will consider bioterrorism charges against a university professor whose art involves the use of simple biology equipment.

British Journalist Detained, Harrassed On Trip To LA

When writer Elena Lappin flew to LA, she dreamed of a sunkissed, laid-back city. But that was before airport officials decided to detain her as a threat to security.

What's the point of this thread?

To Push buttons?

Wake me up when something useful occurs.

ZZZzzzz

OMG...where have you been! When Bush rolled into Iraq I told my close friends to get liquid. They did. These are folks who were 59 1/2 at the time, (I'm now 45), they did!. Cashed out of the equities. Now they can buy a new car, remodel their beach house and go to Myrtle Beach to golf this Easter.

My friends, the eye of Hurricane Bush is over us here and now. A foreign power planning to invade couldn't not have done it better!

My Obama plan is to take those reserves and start buying, real estate REITs, non-financial green focused equities and energy Spider index funds. (Gas will not stay at $2/gal) Opportunity is for those who followed the Scout motto of "Be Prepared".

Actually I'm rather hopeful. America woke up and has placed the Adults in charge.

Obama's budget of reflects the maturity of what one would have to do after Junior had an unsupervised house party.

Listening to this pack of jackals makes me ill. After shredding the Constitution with the Patriot Act, blowing $4 Trillion in a false war, bloating the government, then finally standing back as the economy implodes the response from Michael Steel is "My bad"

Maybe they can old their next conference at Camp Gitmo. I hear Rush Limbaugh has some discount T-Shirts to pass out.

The age factor within the Band of Brothers is a very real thing. Try as we might with Patrol set-ups and training the difference between 11 and 16 is huge. To put it into prespective imagine as a 45 year old what you have in common with a 29 year old!

Encouraging those who can tolerate working with the Crossovers can help but never totally brige the gap. The only exceptions I've witnessed are those Crossovers with older brothers who have already aged out. Somehow these guys manage to meld straight into the inner circle of the Band. Maybe the legacy factor is at work here.

Bottom line here is that there is nothing to "fix" It's a group dynamic that is real. While it can be managed its something to be aware of when setting up Patrols and dealing with the new guys.

Lawrence,

Lawrence...first welcome, and Kudo's to you and your boys on a great effort. I feel it not only was for a good caused but showed that these boys are of as hearty stock as any other Minnesotan.

I really feel that the BSA has become so risk adverse that there seems to be a no-no for just about every event you can think up. Being close to the Canadian border we avail ourselves to Scouts Canada events once or twice a year. They have events for the Scouts that would give some of the hand-wringers on this forum the vapors!

All the best for your colleague and keep us up to date.

Last night was the first meeting in our Troop with the newly crossed over Webelos. After the meeting my 13yo made a comment that struck me. He said, I could just tell half of these guys arent going to make it. I probed further asking how he knew that. I dont know, Its something you feel. Its like we were talking about the hike in two weeks and some totally dont understand. Remember the guy last year who thought he was going to die on that little 8 mile. Some cant cut it

The attrition rate for the 1st year Scouts is pretty high with our troop. Its been running 30-40%. While some of the reason is a parent and situation factor I wonder if at the Troop level there is a Band of Brothers factor. While Im hard pressed to say that our 40 boy troop is a clique, I would hold that it takes a special motivated boy and his family to have a successful scouting career. We bend over to get these little ones active and quickly moving with the T-2-1 program and a series of spring events encouraging advancement. However maybe not every Cub/Webelo is cut out to be a Scout.

How do your troops current Scouts feel about the Replacements?

Good discussion.

Its clear that parents are not burned out being with their children. Its doing the intense scouting thing 5 plus years that gets old.

There is kind of an unwritten convention that about 3 years is it in any position. Year 1 you learn. Year 2 you preform. Year 3 you teach and move on. Maybe the same cadence is needed here.

What about the idea that Webelo's is the separation point. Detach a bit from the Pack and link up a bit with a one or more Troops. I think it would be an idea worth kicking around.

With B&G and cross over season in full swing I was looking forward to a fresh recruiting class. At our last B&G I was chatting with a parent with two boys who actually discouraged her son from continuing in Scouts. Her rational was that junior was going to expand his experience with Sports, Band, Student Council, Key Club and other school oriented/supported activities. Plus, she admitted that the family was kind of burned out on the Scouting thing for the past five years.

This cannot be an isolated case. I wonder if the emphasis on Cubs has created a jaded view of the older part of the program. I wonder if the high required parent involvement coupled with the arts & crafts activities contaminate the 11-18 year old Boy Scout program. i.e. Scouts are sissies

Perhaps Cubs and Webelos need to distance themselves more from the Boy Scout program. I think many parents view the Boy Scouts as just an indistinguishable continuation of the Cub program. Thus the been-there-done-that mind-set takes hold.

My view of the Social Networking Sites is totally different.

First, porn and scandal are the first order of business for any new technology. After that its all business. We are still in the first wave of these social web sites like Facebook. . What troubles me is that societies rush to make an example out of these young folks nave explorations with a viral technology. The police are ready and willing to make lifetime felons out of teenagers messing around with a cell phone camera and a network. (See Newsweeks Feb 23 issue p 18). Whats even more shocking is that girls are more likely to be caught up by sending provocative images and texts.

Bottom Line tell your boys 1) do not send or forward anything via text or video that your mother would object to seeing. 2) If you receive something that your think your mom would object then immediately delete it.

Our net effect is to pull back from some expensive and far flung camp outs. Gettysburg and some other out-of-state events may have to be thrifted back has our boy's families at staring down at layoffs in the auto sector here in SE Michigan. We are looking at 1/2 a tank or less events. (Of course being in the Great Lakes area we are all ready spoiled with some of the most beautiful on-shore summer camping in the mid west. )

F-O-S...forget about it. They are lucky with the status quo. United Way cut us off last year. Hard Times.

I think the old while sea Scout belt looks great on any green uniform. Good contrast.

Wow...sounds like the cheese slipped off the cracker. I commend you for your decision to move on. Like I said, life is short and the time being a youth is even shorter. You dont have to put up with the drama of a dysfunctional troop. Keep us up to date on the next steps this poor SM and unit is taking. Sound like both need some help.

BTW please pass along congratulations on your son making Star!