mmhardy

We will be doing the Sea Exploring adventure. As a sailor on the Great Lakes and a frequent Keys vistor, the only advice is to keep sun exposure to a minium. Sun screen, polarized sun glasses, hat and light colored loose clothing at Seabase are to akin to a good backpack and hiking boots at Philmont. A long sleeve T-shirt is an excellent suggestion.

While not required consider getting a pair of boat shoes. Tennis shoes will tend to slide you around on a wet deck.

It can be windy while underway, having a strap for your glasses and hat will save them from becoming part of the ecosystem.

It keeps me from playing too much golf.

I got into it as I recognized that to have a successful program for my boys that I would have to be involved to keep it going. I was a Scout, and earned Eagle, however my focus is more toward supporting the organization as a whole. I do PR for the Council and District. (Whan time allows) and my wife and I have done the popcorn chair for 3 years. I supose when my boys age out I will too. It demands fresh energy.

Kudo's to you and your colleagues for keeping this forum on the straight and narrow.

We have two crews going down during the same week. One to Munson the other on Sea Exploring. Is there any chance of our crews joining up when the ship is in the area? Did anyone snorkel on Looe Key?

I see this topic come up from time to time and it gets my blood boiling.

First I have been around developmentally disabled people my entire 47 years. I have seen the changes that have evolved in this country from the institutional system in place in the 1960s to the other end of the spectrum that exists today mainstream everyone. (Thats another topic)

Being a father of an autistic son, a Second Class Scout, is a challenge. However its my job to make the best of the situation. He is in the same troop with his older brothers but has the tendency as, those with Asperger syndrome do, to be reclusive and fixated on a limited number of activities. I do not expect my troop to make any accommodations other then to be aware of his disability and ask me questions. Thats my job!

Fortunately our current troop works out however Im open to exploring finding or creating a troop for other like minded boys! In corporate terms, the BSA is a turn-key youth program. It has all the trappings and trinkets to keep the youth and the adults engaged and its malleable enough to make accommodations without breaking. Just add motivated adults and kids and it works!

Our Detroit area troop plans on flying in a day early. We noted that Camp Sawyer is available in the mid-keys and wonder if anyone has stayed at this camp.

Beavah,

Thanks for the case lookup. It offered a great deal more detail. The Plantiff looks to have a snowballs chance but stranger things have happened.

Did the BSA ask for summary judgement and dismissal?

Take mission statement, romance and great memories out and what is left?

BSA is a local turn-key youth program supported by a 100 year old educational development track geared toward youth development. It further supported by some of the finest facilities and properties that rival and exceed any outdoor program in the nation. The entire program has a foundation based on traditional moral and spiritual values common in North America.

The trick is to take this dry hard-core sounding product and humanize it. Make no mistake, while we have to capture the imagination of youth you have to sell to the parents. If the parents dont buy it the boy has no support system to make scouting work for him and his family.

But to go through the hassle of filing a suit for $370 in damages is absurd. The attorney fees alone exceed that even if the attorneys are working for free.

To me the Council should have countered with a sanctions suite against the Plaintiffs attorney. The set aside for ADA for organizations like the BSA is clear.

Clearly something else is going on. Once filed with the court these suits are a matter of public record I wonder if anyone in central Florida could locate it and post it.

Something still stikes me as odd with Central Florida's suit.

"In its countersuit, the Central Florida Council also seeks a court-ordered accounting of Unit 700's finances -- saying it "cannot independently verify" whether the Rasmussens have made "improper use of its funds."

The suit alleges the Rasmussens cashed $370 in checks made out to the unit and forced their Scouts to buy clothing and mementos the Rasmussens had embroidered with trademark Boy Scout logos."

Isn't that the CO's responsibility? The Council may be on shaky ground in that the Charter rests with the church. The courts will see that and may ask the church to account for this.

I dont see how the Council has been harmed?

I had a bad experience while trying to get a cub pack on its feet. Our CO was the local Knights of Columbus. But the relationship was on paper only. The parish had a new fellowship hall but the group was fearful that the boys would damage the facility. We did our meetings behind the stage at the school. Our Chartered Rep was only interested in the Scout Troop...Pack not so much. I attented several KoC busiess sessions and directly asked the KoC board a meeting space and $$ for flags...no response. I finally told the district exec that this was not worth salvaging and merged our pack with another and took a leadership position. Best move we ever did.

Sadly the short sightedness is now directly affecting the KoC Troop. Without a pipline of new members from Pack they are seeing smaller numbers year after year.

We will be down at FSB in August '08 we have two crews, Sea Exploring and Out Island. We will be flying into Miami from Detroit then catching a bus the rest of the way.

I understand that Delta has flights into Marathon. If FSB can arrange pick up from there it may be more cost effective then limo.

To digress for a moment.

Has anyone ever noted on this forum how much in lockstep Scouting is with Freemasony?

Ranks = Degrees

The 3 steps in OA Membership = Initial 3 Degrees toward Blue Lodge

And belief in an almightly supreme being. etc.etc.

As the guy in Laugh In used to say...very interesting.

This introspective young man is studying Theology (Theo-" is "God" in Greek and "-logy" is study) Its natural for us humans to question our place in the universe. Its healthy and in my mind all mature individuals question their belief system at some points in their lives.

In this case its not the job of the BSA to dismiss this young man from the program. Rather I would prefer that he be allowed to continue so long has he adheres to the Scout Oath and Law. It will be worth reminding him what the Oath and Law contain and that it is an affirmation of a belief system. As an adult leader it would also be worth noting that professing to be an agnostic is inconsistent with the Scout Oath and Law. Thus he is not being Trustworthy with himself to affirm a duty to God yet question His existence.

Furthermore ask this young man if he wants to be associated in an organization who finds fault in his belief. Point out that to stay on would be in essence a lie. Harsh yes but honest.

Its far better for a BSA member to Demit on his own accord rather then dismissed.

Im familiar with this type of program as my adult brother is developmentally disabled. Typically, these programs are on small family farms so they tend to keep the price of the program enough to cover staff, insurance, feed and tack.

I would suggest that this candidate talk to a representative of your community ORC or whatever community support organization exists. The riding stable may know. He may be able to get direct sponsorship from the organization instead of the farm.

Im sure that the project will allow greater use of the facility and help keep the cost of the riding stables low.

Great idea!

What were we talking about?...oh yeah.

Q: Ann Coulter once said, "We need to execute people like (John Walker Lindh) in order to physically intimidate liberals." What's your opinion of the remark?

- Funny

- Not funny

- She should be awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom

- She should be executed in order to physically intimidate right-wing anorexic sociopaths

Q: What's the greatest threat to American democracy?

-Out-of-control activist liberal judges

-Filibuster-happy Democratic obstructionists

-The corporate takeover of American government

-Born-again fundamentalists who want to turn America into a theocracy

-Terrorist-appeasing liberals who recklessly criticize their president in wartime

Q: Was the Iraq war worth it?

-Yes, mission accomplished

- Yes, they attacked us on 9/11 and payback is a ****

- No, it's a total freaking disaster that is rapidly turning into another Vietnam

- I don't know, I'm too busy trying to figure out why I'm still paying $2.50/gallon for gas after we took over the world's second largest oil reserve.

Q: Which bumper sticker would you be most likely to put on your car?

- I Voted For Kerry Before I Didn't

- My Honor Student Beat Up France

- Ted Kennedy's Car Has Killed More People Than My Gun

- One Nation Under Surveillance

- At Least in Vietnam, Bush Had An Exit Strategy

- Except For Ending Slavery, Fascism, Nazism and Communism, War Has Never Solved Anything.

Q: President Bush's tax cuts ____

- Ended the Clinton recession and revitalized the economy

- Were a shameless giveaway to the obscenely rich

- Would have been better spent securing our ports, borders and nuclear plants against possible terrorist attack

- Were a nice start, but I won't be satisfied until we have a 15% flat tax and government is shrunk to a size where it can be drowned in the bathtub

Q: Fox News Channel can best be described as ____

- Fair and balanced

- Fairly unbalanced

- A little slanted, but nothing compared to the pervasive bias of the dominant liberal media establishment

- A shameless propaganda outfit that would have made Joseph Goebels proud

Q: The best way for Republicans to retain power is to ____

- Project strong, decisive leadership while Democrats are busy waffling and whining

-Stop intervening in people's private affairs and playing politics with feeding tubes

- Portray Democrats as the party of Michael Moore, George Soros, and Barbra Streisand

- Exploit terrorism fears, question Democrats' patriotism, intimidate the media, and if all else fails, start another war

-Keep rigging the voting machines

Q: Michael Moore once said, "I would like to apologize for referring to George W. Bush as a 'deserter.' What I meant to say is that George W. Bush is a deserter, an election thief, a drunk driver, a WMD liar, and a functional illiterate. And he poops his pants." What's your opinion of the remark?

- Funny

- Not funny

- He should be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize

- He should be sent to Guantanamo Bay and piled into a naked pyramid

Q: The best way for Democrats to regain power is to ____

- Stand on principle and regain the backbone they lost when they caved to Bush on tax cuts and Iraq

- Block the Republican agenda at every turn and portray them as right-wing extremists drunk with power

- Distance themselves from Michael Moore, MoveOn.org, and other left-wing extremists who give Dems a bad name

- Embrace mainstream values by supporting bans on abortion and gay marriage

- Shut up and fly the flag

Gonzo.

You stated: The prominent democrats who called Saddam a threat said so DURING THE CLINTON YEARS.

Let's not forget that Bill Clinton could have had Bin Laden, but passed.

Youre absolutely correct on that assessment. But its out of context. Saddam was a regional threat that had the high potential of destabilizing the Mid-East. (Remember his foray into Kuwait.)

However his regime was always checked by Sanctions, Iran and to a lesser extent the Saudis. As long has this triad been in place this teapot dictator was king of his own sand hill.

I dont buy, for a minute, that he represented a threat to the US nor to US interests in the area. When the US removed Saddam from power it created a huge vacuum of influence that Iran has rushed in to fill with an Islamic Theocratic view of state ship. In addition we are now so stretched out, (and now exhausted after 5+ years on war footing), that these states are emboldened to act up. Now we have North Korea to worry about!

Gonzo1 just a couple of pointsno time to go further.

1) The invasion of Iraq was based on a reasonable belief that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction that posed a threat to the U.S., a belief supported by available intelligence evidence. NOT ENOUGH SAID, IRAQ HAD WMD, B. CLINTON, T KENNEDY, h CLINTON, J. KERRY, A. GORE AND OTHERS HAVE SAID THAT IRAQ HAD WMD AND SADDAM MUST GO BECAUSE SADDAM AND IRAQ WERE A THREAT TO THE USA.

Sorry finger pointing to a prior administration doesnt impress me nor most current heads of state. Furthermore if Bush looked to Clinton and Gore for guidance on any subject I would be truly amused. It didnt impress the UK and Blair was warned Please see the Downing Street Memo at

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1593607_2,00.html

2)Saddam was involved with bin Laden and al Qaeda in the plotting of 9/11 - Saddam saw al Qaeda as a threat to his dictatorship.

SADDAM SUPPORTED AL-QAIDA TRAINING CAMPS, SO HE MUST NOT HAVE BEEN THREATENED.

The CIA retracted much of the intelligence that linked Saddam and al Qaeda. There are numerous articles if you care to research. See

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9991919/site/newsweek/

as the Drudgereport would say..Developing.

BrentAllen et al. Im a recovering conservative. As one who has to work for a living with three teenage Scouts Im come to realize that the Bush Administration hails not from the Republican/Conservative philosophy of Goldwater and Reagan that I cut my teeth on. This administration has bastardized a great party and pundits like Coulter, Hannity and Limbaugh are proof that this party and its agenda is more sizzle then steak.

Consider the following irrefutable facts:

This Administration has gutted the ability for the US to defend itself. Stories abound about how of our armor is in Iraq and the other is out of commission and used for spare parts. Our national guard cannot respond in force to national disasters. Our recruiters have problems recruiting. Do you think that if this administration wins these midterms that we will not have a draft? I hope not but I am not willing to bet my sons lives on it. Are you?

This Administration has not advanced the conservative agenda Other then eliminating funding for stem cell research no conservative plank has been pushed forward. Despite having control of the House, Senate and the White House they have not eliminated abortion, allowed prayer in schools or legislated the sanity of marriage. All core conservative values. What a total failure!!

Shrinking middle class If you have a paycheck then this Administration has no use for you. The Brookings Institute reported that in 1970, the heyday for the Liberals, that 28% of the population was considered middle class. Today in many metro areas that number has shrunk into the mid teens. This Administrations policies have only helped those who have their money work for them. (Something I am working on accomplishing!)

So yes, I am a Liberal. Not beholden to a party but to my savior Jesus Christ who gave all Liberals instructions on how to live and treat one another with the Sermon on the Mount. (Matthew 5-7) It is worth reading repeatedly.

My list of top lies the Bush Administation has said right to our face...

1) The invasion of Iraq was based on a reasonable belief that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction that posed a threat to the U.S., a belief supported by available intelligence evidence. - 'Nuf Said

2)Saddam was involved with bin Laden and al Qaeda in the plotting of 9/11 - Saddam saw al Qaeda as a threat to his dictatorship.

3) The U.S. wants democracy in Iraq and the Middle East. - This whole thing has taken a turn for the worst they need a "U.S. Friendly" strongman.

4) The United States is waging a war on terror. - We are involved in a secular civil war.

5) The Bush administation and the GOP is the party of the religious right - The Evangelicals and other Christian groups are being USED by the Neo Cons. One you have voted your cast aside.

This administration will be deemed an historical study of how quickly a great country can falter. Will it continue?

What's strange about Coulter is that she is a University of Michigan grad. UofM is located in Ann Arbor, one of the most progressive cities in the state.

Maybe she went to the Flint campus. Flint, now there is a real garden spot of this state.

I'll go one step further then local newspapers and point out the positive goodwill that our district's units have recieved by placing stories in there own Chartered Organization's newsletter.

This ensures that what should be your biggest supporter, your CO, knows what your doing. It also offers targeted coverage of a group that may offer greater support to you in the future.

Appoint one committee person to oversee the publication of one story a quarter in any newsletter. I promise you will see results in terms of membership, support and goodwill.

In addition you may be contacted by larger newspapers who want to follow up on your great efforts.

BTW...to set the record straight here is the link on the requirements to become a page. My reading is that its pretty limited to Juniors in High School.

http://www.house.gov/petri/pageprog.htm

"CONGRESSIONAL PAGE PROGRAM

Currently sixty-six young men and women are appointed by their Member of Congress to serve as Pages in the U.S. House of Representatives. Forty-four slots are reserved for Republican Pages.

To be eligible for the summer program, applicants must be 16 years of age at the time of their appointment, have a B average or better, and be willing to serve as a page for approximately one month during the summer before or after their junior year of high school.

While not the case for all sex scandals it seems the Democrats stick around and take the punishment, (Clinton was impeached), while the Republicans tend to resign, retire or other wise "cut and run".

The Jack Abramoff case is another story. Here is a case were both parties have their hands in the cookie jar. There may be up to six congressmen going to jail

Double standard ha! The media pounces on anything that will help sell a paper or have folks tune in. This is by no means the first republican homosexual sex scandle. But its shocking the system of many who have never seen it covered like this.