mmhardy

Its possible that National has asked each council to access and create local marketing campaigns for their area. Nationals own Words to Live By campaign provides all kinds of support assets that local councils can utilize.

http://www.scouting.org/~/link.aspx?_id=0C6B07D5B4C345A288252EDBC67A065E&_z=z

But his post has so many links and stuff. Its so pretty, indented and organized. Kind of a Key West formal thing. He has got to be correct. Right?

Wowlooks like we hit a bit of pay dirt on this topic. I think JersyScout summed it up best. Except for the 14yo Eagle candidates, (so now what are you going to dobut thats another topic.) For many boys the EBOR represents one of the last rank requirements that the BSA makes them go though and one of the last experiences in Scouting before they age out. While my EBOR in 1979 was great, it sound like boys today have a high potential to have a crappy experience. Not a Good Sign.

After just sitting on my sixth Eagle Board of Review Im noticing a facet that Im kind of surprised about. There seems to be a view by some that passing the requirements of Eagle is somehow not enough. Im also hearing concerns about how the young man achieved the requirements and if this Eagle candidate ranks an A, B, C, etc. I also see eyebrows raised if the lad went to one of those Council concentrated merit badge camps as opposed to knocking off the badges one at a time. Ive also seen practically an IRS audit take place of the boys Eagle project binder with calculators humming on the number of hours he recorded. The kid was in tears at one point! The District advancement chair tactfully told the inquisitors to knock it off. Which I was thankful.

Being an Eagle myself I have little use for such nonsense. Im my view the program is pretty black and white; either you achieve the requirements or not. Is giving the candidate the 8th degree common? Have you seen this aspect in your own EBOR experience? How do you handle it?

With all due respect for the Cub program, which my youngest loved and thrived. I really think that in many ways it does a dis-service to the original vision of Scouting which should begin when a young man become aware of themselves as potential adult. Which is about 11 years old.

Some years our troops attrition rate is about 50% after cross over. (That is, 50% never make to fall after cross over) I attribute it to a mindset families feel that Boys Scouts is mere extension of Cubs. They are burned out of that concept.

My Dad really didnt want me to join Scouts until I was 11 in the mid- 1970s. Today I totally understand his rational.

Im going to be a contrarian on this one. Unless this troop is from another planet, if he passes the requirements and another qualified Scout or Scouter passes him then thats it, he is done.

I see real evidence of Keepers of the Flame syndrome. (Adding requirements, questioning if the boy really did the work even if signed off by Green Bar Bill, this Scout is not worthy, etc. ) Scouting is a youth program and that little crest above your left pocket indicates its a worldwide brotherhood. As soon as we are suspect of the worthiness of a brother troop the whole BSA movement is in trouble.

As for the term Advancement Camp. My reaction is duh. All Scout camping should be geared toward learning, testing and achieving Scoutcraft skills. Its obvious that this troop gets it and has put together elements of a T-2-1 program. Our troop also does this EVERY campout.

Ill bet my last dollar that this can be quickly sorted out with a 2min chat between the SMs.

Gern,

Your right about fitting in a 5 gal bucket. I'm not sure NT will let you use it. Plus there was a rather lengthy discussion at the bwca.com blog about those who utilize this method.

I asked my son this. He spent the summer working there. Here is his advice.

"While working as an interpreter I had a pretty set list of items that I brought. Scout participants may not share the same list but as I worked there for the summer I would like to think it would help. The main difference between what I packed and what scouts packed is that I, as an interpreter, had my own pack. The crews usually got one gear pack per 3 people. The weight that each scout packed made a difference.

Essentials

-Lightweight Sleeping Bag

-Fold Flat Bowl and spoon

-Wet Shoes AND Camp Shoes (misery ensued with constantly wet feet)

-Knife (it is a lot of weight for everyone to bring their own (however, I personally brought two, comfort thing))

-Seal Bag (extra protection, one 20L and one 15L bag should fit everything(a 30L bag can be bulky). If you need more space, you need less stuff)

-Map case (if you plan to use it more than once by all means, invest. However, the double zip lock freezer-bags work as a decent substitute)

-Camera

-Nalgene (you only need one, it is not Philmont, you are surrounded by water all the time)

Clothing Essentials

-2pairs pants (zip-off quick dry are best)

-2t-shirts (not cotton)

-Several pairs of boxer-briefs (whatever is conferrable, offers support, and will keep you dry)

-Several Wicking socks and Wool outer (once they are wet, they will NOT dry)

-Fleece

-RAINJACKET (Rain-pants are redundant since you are getting in and out of water all the time anyway so dont bother. Ponchos are a joke. If you dont have any, it may be the time to invest. Summer 2009 there was seldom a string of good weather longer than 4 days.)

-Small camp towel (for feet, drying off soaking legs before entering a sleeping bag, ect.)

-Sleeping Clothing (I liked having something dry, comfy, and warm)

Tip: Waded up clothing doubles great as a pillow.

Luxuries

Jetboil (great for my Ramen Noodle or coffee needs)

Lightweight Hammock (Used it EVERY sunny day)

Mug (if you dont like having breakfast and coffee/hot coco separate)

Book or Magazines (these may fit in your mapcase)

Candy Bars =]

Ultimately if something is forgotten, or you feel you truly need, you can live without it for a time. There was a 7day trip where I managed to forget socks, camp shoes, and a mess kit and lived to tell the tale. Yea my feet were soggy any unhappy but I learned that a big leaves can substitute for a bowl and chopsticks are easy to make with twigs.

Dont Bring

-Obscene amounts of foot powder (crews, always, without fail bring bottles of foot powder. Hint: I didnt use it all summer and I dont know an interpreter who does.)

-Too Many Fishing Poles (I occasionally brought my telescopic pole. Nothing frustrates an interpreter like 7 fishing poles open in a canoe that need to be hand carried on every portage. )

-Giant Tackle Box (Bring a small selection of whatever, you dont need bobs bait shop in a box. Live bait works best anyway)

-Day Packs (honestly if you think you will need something thought the day put it in a pocket (ex: camera) or on top of your gear pack (ex: raingear)

- Sleeping Pad (I never took one. The ground usually is not cold enough to warrant its use. Unless you have a bad back or its a comfort thingultimately youre carrying it)

-Canoe Seats (They are nice, but are just one more problem on portages. Plus some canoes have seats that are not canoe seat compatible) "

There has never been 100% respect for the holder of high office.

I'm in the middle of reading about Andrew Jacksons first term. The Washington establishment thought of him as an outsider, an interloper and not worthy of the office. There was still a great deal of families and establishment hanging on from the Washington, Adams and Jefferson era. With the end of eight years of Republican rule, I see a similar hand being played out with Obama.

No easy answer here.

Put a sheet together that explains just what you outlined. After a certain date you lose your fees. Airline tickets are not refundable. Period. Include information about trip insurance.

I put a trip together last year to Seabase for 20. Because of drop outs we had 2 other troops and several individual boys. It all worked but was stressful. Never again will I do a group that large.

Geez the personal attacks. Sounds like Congress.

Merlyn has a point. Anyone with a keen legal mind may want to consider the following.

When the Boy Scouts of America was Chartered in 1916 under Sec. 30902. Purposes, it clearly states.

The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916.

If other agencies mean governmental agencies like the Civil Air Patrol then the BSA may be indeed precluded from ANY discrimination policies contrary to US government agencies its chartered to cooperate with.

Clearly the US government has gone through many changes with respect to discrimination practices since 1916. Has the BSA been in sync?

This situation sounds familiar. What if the meeting hall was not available by the CO during the holiday? That has happened from time to time and the CCs job is to make the SM and the PLC aware of it. Meeting times should be set out in the units bylaws accounting for holidays. It sound like the SM is using the PLC to set his own agenda/control and the Committee was caught with a loophole.

These so-called minor holidays are typically non working days for many financial, governmental and legal firms. Thus families utilize them has part of their vacation time. It sound like the Committee (ie families of the unit) recognizes that and wishes that the PLC would consider that in their planning.

Beyond the births and deaths, which sooner or later everyone deals with one or more multiples of, my biggest AW-%^&%$ moment was getting served a lawsuit over a house we had just sold. It was nasty and took a fair amount of $$$ to fight but we prevailed. I tell ya, it was satisfying for a judge to grant sanctions against the plaintiff for some of our costs. After going through a year of that nothing much gets to me now. That was over 16 years ago.

With all due respect, why can 18yo be considered adult enough to wear body armor and protect our country in far off lands while not be considered old enough for a little training in a youth program?

Age does not make one an "adult", neither does being a mom or having gray hair.

I see evidence here of Keeper of the Flame syndrome. Its evidenced by those who wish to impose restrictions or requirements above and beyond what is established. Its commonly seen in BORs and especially in EBORs.

I think the BSA attempted to attack the problem with Venture Patrols, but that doesnt help at all because the takes the older scouts away from the troop program, it doesnt enhance it. That is not to say the Adventure patrols arent good for the troop, but they shouldnt be done in a way that it segregates the program.

Barry,

Respectfully disagree. We had about a full year of the total integration/everyone together program with the older Scouts teaching Scoutcraft just about each meeting. It resulted in about 1/2 of the 15yo+ guys leaving for a Venture Crew or Scouting altogether.

Scouts are there for the adventure and experience. Too many boys in this age group felt that just teaching skills = babysitting. Sorry to be blunt buts thats what was conveyed by the older boys when our troop had a melt down. It sure opened our eyes.

As a result we took a tack akin to what OGE mentioned. The format of the meeting is broken into different segments to appeal to different age groups and skill levels. This keeps everyone engaged and common interests satisfied. Older guys still teach buts its on a volunteer basis and usually involves a point of pride. As a result our retention rate has gone up significantly, the Troop looks and feels more Boy led and there is less stress on the Scoutmaster Corps.

I read his remarks... His message is dead on and as a fellow Dad of children also in school he has creditability. I challenge anyone to take a remark and twist it to anything then genuine concern for the fellow American peers of his two daughters.

Since the days our government began getting involved in "public welfare", I can not think of a program which has caused people to be more responsible for themselves. Instead, they tend to be an incredible drain on the economy and have resulted in generations of Americans who believe they are "entitled" to government handouts.

I hope your not suggesting that programs like the VA, Social Security and Medicare are a drain on our society. Or maybe you are?

I think that Obama is making the address to students and their families to wake up and ensure that education is important. With a 30% drop out rate the No Child Left Behind Act is a proven failure.

The Right fears that the Presidents message of personal responsibility and staying in school will actually take. The last time the President addressed this nations students directly was in 1991. Why has it taken 18 years for a President to realize the importance of our youth and our educational system?

I'm sure if he were alive today he would have a FB page. I'm now a fan. Good luck and keep up the research.

I had an ATM card in 1980 and my Dad freaked. In college I used the Gopher and Merit Networks. I remember similar concerns, angst and eye rolling in the early to mid-90's with this thing called the World Wide Web. Yet here we all are.

Social Networks are already becoming main stream as corporate gets into them...on to the next.

I'm sure that the State Attorney General would be very interested in what they are doing.

I'll bet the Council is getting its sales tax back. So they are double dipping on both sides.

After a quick review of the data pack preso on the consolidation web site it looks as if both CVC and DAC have significant financial challenges ahead. Of course this mirrors with the Southeast Michigan economy.

Ed,

I'll assume you went. What did you think?

Our troop goes to Ontario Canada each spring for a huge Camporee called Dorchester. Scouts Canada is co-ed and the type of activities they offer would give some of the G2SS experts a coronary. Of the 50 or so events one of the most popular is a zip line across a running river with about a 75' vertical drop. Very cool.

Its time to think about a co-ed Scouting USA program starting at age 14 with rank advancement.