mmhardy

The editorial is the WSJ is entirely accurate based on the authors view point. Period.

If your interested in getting the facts right how about the ACLU stating that the military gives the BSA $2 million per year to support the Jamboree. (See Final paragraph in http://www.aclu-il.org/news/press/000220.shtml) Its a LIE. In addition there is nothing mentioned about the millions that the BSA will spend on AP Hill for capital improvements to the base in preparation for the Jamboree. These improvements will end up supporting ALL groups utilizing the facility.

Finally, the ACLU is being flanked. The ACLUs fixation on the establishment clause has been entirely void of the next statement of Article 1; , or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. . My argument is that I think the ACLU is depending too much on Title VI & VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to buttress its challenges against the BSA.

If ones religious beliefs are deemed discriminatory by the US government which in turn changes policy that causes harm or damages ones practice thereof then the US government is acting outside its constitutional boundaries. Up until Dale the ACLU supported religious expression on public property. (See County of Allegheny v. American Civil Liberties Union, 492 U.S. at 613).

The WSJ is right on the mark with the overall tone that those who support the efforts that Scouting promotes.

There has been an interesting development in Texas now that the Dale suit has set precedent. A Christian Legal Society bars gays from participation. The group has filed six seperate suits against various colleges who have taken away funding for the groups activities on campus. So far two of the six suits have been resolved in the Christians groups favor.

The ACLU is being flanked.

See Time, Nov 29, p. 18

Just to get back on the trail...My intent of this posting is to point out that the ACLU (for good or bad intentions I don't care) is handing the BSA the opportunity for excellent press coverage. Don't get twisted around the axle with the minutia of arguments about chartering, gays, or the price of tea in China. The BSA can take the absolute high ground with publicly pointing out every time that there is an attack what its core mission is. It does not have to say anything else.

Should we encourage these groups to keep the chatter going? If the ACLU, Scouts-for-All, or the Rainbow Knot Group wants to keep bringing lawsuits let them. It only serves to offer the BSA another opportunity to keep its message and mission in the public eye. Its a beautiful thing!!!

The BSA must stay on message with fervor. Scouts Canada succumbed to the political correctness by abandoning the high standards. As a result, since 1990 Scouts Canadas membership of youth has declined over 50%. In that same period BSA has grown by 10%. Bottom lineabandoning BSAs traditional values and mission to please political interest groups is BAD BUSINESS.

Look at this ACLU activity has offering the BSA a 10 million dollar PR campaign that it does not have to spend a dime to conduct.

There is an old saying that PR folks like to tell that goes something like this. The press can print anything they like as long as they spell my name right.

The recent ACLU activity in a series of lawsuits since the year 2000 has yielded numerous stories in the media. Today, a quick search engine query on the Internet yields over 450 news stories that mention the terms ACLU and Boy Scouts This is a Public Relations firm dream. But who is benefiting? If you examine the content of most of the stories one gets the impression that the ACLU is trying to hold the government to the letter of the law by not allowing any federal funds to support Scouting. Thats fine however to John and Jane Q. Public that aspect is as exciting waiting for paint to dry. The real nuance of these press stories that is getting people excited is that the press is portraying the ACLU as pummeling the BSA for holding on to its core set of traditional values as exemplified by the Scout Oath and Law. That is what is getting people upset. The ACLU is beating up an American institution.

Lets face it folks, this is EXACTLY the type of press that the Scouts need. Consider this. The last election showed over 22% of all voters voted with Moral Values in mind. Now one can put various ideas of what Moral Values means but lets assume that these voters are our kind of people. Pull out the envelope and scratch some numbers down and play with them.

- 22% of the current US population translates into roughly 64 million people

- 22% of boys aged 6 to 19 is roughly 7 million boys.

- There are currently 3.2 million Scouts (Cubs through Venture)

- Thus BSA has some 3.8 million other boys whose families consider Moral Values as a key core belief. That ladies and gentlemen represents opportunity!!!

Now is the time to take advantage of what the ACLU is doing. Scouting needs to be proud of its Timeless Values and look forward to sparing with these clowns at every turn. The ACLU is putting Scoutings message up for everyone to examine and attempt to ridicule it. The BSA organization should ensure that it has the brightest flashlight it can find and turn it on and state Yes that is what we stand for.

I would like to see the BSA National issue press releases commenting on every ACLU action taken against the Scouts. We need to let people know that we are here to stay, offer a great program and will remain on message. The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

We have 3.8 million potential recruits that want to hear it!

From the Lake Orion, Michigan Observer& Eccentric Newspaper

New trail teaches youth about disabilities

By Jenna Kloeckner - Staff Writer

A new "disAbled Awareness Trail" in Camp Agawam in Lake Orion is up and running.

Developed by the Chief Pontiac Trail Committee - a volunteer group administered by the Clinton Valley Council of the Boy Scouts of America (CVC-BSA) - and other Boy Scout leaders, the trail's purpose is to inform the public about programs for Boy Scouts with disabilities.

"The trail represents that Scouting is for all," said Mike Hardy, public relations chair for CVC-BSA, an organization that strives to accomplish the mission of the Boy Scouts of America by providing various programs and activities to local youth.

"A lot of people don't really know what resources are out there for kids with disabilities," he said."We're trying to gain awareness with the trail and show people that Scouts with disabilities are welcome."

Dave Putt, scoutmaster for Troop 210 in Sterling Heights and member of a district committee of the CVC-BSA, is responsible for putting the idea of the trail into action.

The idea came from a vision from the late Ron Emmit, a member of the Chief Pontiac Trail Committee.

"His vision never materialized. It sat dormant for about eight years," Putt said. "I found out about it last year and decided to get it going. It was a great idea, and I just wanted to get it done."

Intended for use by organized youth groups, the trail serves to educate Scouts and other youth about the challenges those with disabilities face on a day-to-day basis.

Putt said there are seven educational and interactive activity stations along the quarter-mile long trail. Some stations require visitors to use their sense of touch, such as the animal track station, where visitors close their eyes and try to identify five hard plastic animal tracks posted on a sign.

At another station, visitors again close their eyes and stick their hand in a "mystery box" filled with various natural objects, and try to figure out what the items are.

Other stations require visitors to use their sense of smell. One station contains eight plastic vials filled with different scents. Putt said there are two vials of each scent, and visitors must smell the vials and try to find the matching scents.

Also included on the trail are a rope walk and a station where visitors can learn sign language.

In essence, Putt said the trail puts Boy Scouts and other

youth into the shoes of a disabled person, which is an excellent learning experience. "For example," he said, "if a troop has a disabled Scout in it, the other members of the troop will have empathy."

Although the trail is open for youth groups, Putt said it is only in its first phase. He plans to add tags to the trees and wildflowers - written in Braille - and add Braille to all the existing signs on the trail.

Also, he wants to blacktop the trail, which is hard-packed ground right now, implement an audio tour and create a Web site. But to get past phase one, Putt said he needs all the help and support he can get.

"If the trail generates enough help and support, we can eventually make it available to everyone."

The "disAbled Awareness Trail" is on Clarkston Road, one mile west of Lapeer Road. For more information, call Dave Putt at (586) 752-5176, or e-mail him at dputt5@yahoo.com.

The ACLU contends by the DOD offering children the opportunity to belong to a Cub Scout Pack or Boy Scout Troop that government employees acting in their official capacities have administered a religious oath and practiced religious discrimination. The ACLU feels that such support is tantamount to the practice of religious discrimination. However in its zeal to undermine the Scouting movement, the ACLU has taken an awkward and backhanded stab at the United States Constitution. Article I of the US Constitution states Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. The ACLU is being solely focused on the elimination of establishment of religious elements from public life. The group seems to forgotten the notion of citizens to have the right to practice religion as they see fit as outlined in the rest of Article I.

This recent stand by the ACLU conflicts with the earlier record that the ACLU has taken with respect to religious liberty. The ACLU was instrumental in the passage of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). In 1995 the ACLU submitted an Amicus Curiae to the Supreme Court of the United States that argued the constitutionality of the RFRA. The Writ extends several critical facets of government extending itself to ensure religious freedom. Namely;

This [supreme] Court has repeatedly held that government can constitutionally accommodate religion.

Since the beginning, legislatures have granted exceptions for religious objectives to secular laws, one of which (the substitute of an affirmation for oath) is found in the Constitution itself.

The legislative history of the Fourteenth Amendment indicates an intent to protect religious liberty.

The ACLU has totally flip-flopped in its stand toward promoting Religious Liberty as guaranteed by the Constitution. I fully expect the ACLU to demand the US government to discontinue funding the National Cathedral as well as chapels at every military base in the US and overseas including the military academies at West Point, Annapolis, and Colorado Springs. If they dont take the next step and demand the dismantling of these obviously religious assets supported by the government of the United States then their motives would lend one to believe that the ACLU is taking action only to harm and damage the BSA.

Enough of the hissy fit cat fighting....lets move on.

Hardy

900 Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and their families enjoyed the crisp early

autumn weather at Camp Agawam near Lake Orion, Michigan on Sunday October 3rd. Scouts took in the early fall colors while hiking along the many trails in one of the oldest continuously operating Boy Scout camps in the country.The highlight of the day's event was the opening and dedication of the "disAbled Awareness Trail" The trail is a legacy of the late Ron Emmit,member of the all volunteer Chief Pontiac Trail Committee who developed the concept over eight years ago. The dedication ceremony was lead by Mike Jewell, a volunteer Scouter and Native American. At the conclusion of the ceremony the first hikers were lead by "Ranger", a Golden Retriever companion dog trained by Gail Montgomery of Paws With a Cause. The trail's intent is to inform the public about programs for Boy Scouts with disabilities. Stretching just over a half mile, the wooded trail has various stations that offer interactive displays to experience the challenges that the disabled must overcome in their daily lives. The trail ends at "Fort

Pontiac", a working replica of a 1700's fort, where visitors can see

demonstrations of 18th century blacksmithing, bread baking, woodworking and a trading post.

"The dedication of the disAbled Awareness Trail is just a start." noted Dave Putt, member of the Committee. "We are looking for partnerships in the community to enhance our program and the trail. In the future we would like a blacktop surface, Braille signs and barrier free bridge that crosses part of the trail." Putt added, "This is another part of an overall program that Scouting utilizes for the visually, mobility and mentally impaired Scouts in Macomb and Oakland Counties."

About the Chief Pontiac Trail

The Chief Pontiac Trail Committee is volunteer group of Scouters operating a hiking trail system with outdoor experiences for all age groups. The Chief Pontiac Trail Program is administered through the Clinton Valley Council of the Boy Scouts of America serving Oakland and Macomb Counties. Although primarily focused to support the Boy Scouts of America program (Tiger Cubs, Cubs, Webelos, Boy Scouts, Venturers and Explorers), all youth groups are welcome to participate. Youth groups interesting in learning more about the disAbled Awareness Trail can contact Camp Agawam at (248) 693-8821.

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I start to weep a bit every time I open this thread to check.

We need, or is there, a training course to cover what to do when lost?

There is a web page from www.troop97.net that had an excellent page tht captures the sprit of boy lead troops. The page can be found at:

http://www.troop97.net/unique2.htm

The SM has been at this troop since 1979. Here is small part I thought hit the nail on the head.

"Boy Scout camping activities center on the patrol, where boys learn teamwork, leadership, and most camping skills. It is important that adults not be in the middle of patrol activities such as site selection, tent pitching, meal preparation, and anything else where boys get to practice decision-making.

A key difference between Boy Scouting and Cub Scouting/Webelos is leadership. Look for the word "leader" in a job title, and you will begin to appreciate the difference. The responsible person for a Cub/Webelos den is the adult Den Leader. The responsible person for a Boy Scout patrol is the boy Patrol Leader.

This isn't token leadership (like a denner). A Patrol Leader has real authority and genuine responsibilities. Much of the success, safety, and happiness of six to ten other boys depends directly on him.

Boy Scouting teaches leadership. And boys learn leadership by practicing it, not by watching adults lead.

So what do we adults do, now that we've surrendered so much direct authority to boys? Here are our troop's guidelines on the indirect, advisory role you now enjoy (no kidding, you should enjoy watching your son take progressively more mature and significant responsibilities as he zooms toward adulthood).

The underlying principle is never do anything for a boy that he can do himself. We allow boys to grow by practicing leadership and by learning from their mistakes. And while Scout skills are an important part of the program, what ultimately matters when our Scouts become adults is not whether they can use a map & compass, but whether they can offer leadership to others in tough situations; and can live by a code that centers on honest, honorable, and ethical behavior.

Boys need to learn to make decisions without adult intervention (except when it's a matter of immediate safety). Boys are in a patrol so they can learn leadership and teamwork without adult interference.

Being an adult advisor is a difficult role, especially when we are advising kids (even worse, our own sons). Twice each year, the Boy Scouts of America offers special training on how to do this, which we expect our uniformed adults to take. And any adult is welcomeand encouragedto take the training (see the Scoutmaster; dates are in the annual calendar).

If a parent goes on a campout, you are an automatic member of our "Geezers" (adult) patrol. This patrol has several purposesgood food and camaraderie (of course), but more important is providing an example the boy patrols can follow without our telling them what to do (we teach by example). Since a patrol should camp as a group, we expect the "Geezers" to do so also; that way, adults don't tent in or right next to a boy patrol where your mere presence could disrupt the learning process.

Quite simply, our troop policy requires adults to cook, eat, and tent separately from the Scouts (even dads & sons). We are safely nearby, but not smotheringly close. Sure, go ahead and visit the patrol sites (not just your son's), talk to your son (and the other Scouts), ask what's going on or how things are going. But give the guys room to grow while you enjoy the view. Show a Scout how to do something, but don't do it for him. Avoid the temptation to give advice, and don't jump in just to prevent a mistake from happening (unless it's serious). We all learn best from our mistakes. And let the patrol leader lead.

Your job is tough, challenging, and ultimately rewarding, because your son will be a man the day after tomorrow."

Wow great dialog.

I don't want to appear that I'm anti parent involvement. Geez I'm a parent and a Scouter (2 in BS, 1 Webelo). I love everything about the program. However I feel that my boys would be better served by me if I allowed them to express their own leadership without me around.

I told both of my own boys when I volunteered to be up at summer camp that I would not be looking for them, hawking them, nor directly "coaching" them. I wanted them to go to another Scouter if they needed something signed off or to review a skill. I wanted them to be "boys" and have exposure to other adults. I honestly didn't see them much except at mess hall. They, and I, had a great time.

I'll say one last thing then sit down. It was noted a couple of times that the boys will not know how to set up a program plan without parental involvement. No question guidance is needed...sometimes. But wouldn't feel great if you knew that your PL son advanced an idea, outlined it, and sold it to the troop all on his own without any comment from a parent? To me that's what Scouting is about. After all who is the program for!

Got to bounce this one off you....

I dropped my son of at the yearly PLC meeting. Here is where the boys look at the year ahead and plan activities for the program year. Back in the day when I was SPL this consisted of the SM, ASM and the boy leadership.

Imagine the old geezer shock that I had when I walk back to the conference room to see half the seats at the table filled by adult committee members. I told my son I would see him in about an hour. I got a few glares as I left.

In an hour the meeting was still going on so I grabbed a chair sat in the back and observed. In all fairness the boys got the only vote and lead the discussions. But more then once the parents chimed in. I got the distinct feeling that some of the boys didn't speak out because mom or dad was in attendance. Everything seemed to run smooth. Im sure that it will be another successful and active year.

I'm I being over sensitive or is this norm now-a-days. Just need a level check.

Good Grief....I'm going back to the woods now. Wild blueberrys are now well in here in Michigan.

I knew a guy who had a tattoo. He got it right after college while he was in Europe. It was about an inch high and it was the number "8" with wings on each side. After coming home in 1945 he went on to become an brilliant surgeon and family doctor for 30 years.

Yes you guessed it. It was my grandfather. In 1942 he was in the 8th Army Air Corps and was a flight surgeon stationed in England.

From the Fieldbook..."As I grow older I pay attention to less what men say then what they do."

Gosh the memories keep pouring in.

Our troop just got back from fishing. We were using live minnows to catch a mess of perch and I remember we were pretty successful. One of the boys was playing with the minnows in his hand and of course it flipped out of his hand and right into the Scoutmasters can of soda. A one in a hundred shot!! The Scoutmaster didn't see this, (chatting away with the other dads), before anyone could say anything Mr. Oak grabs the can of soda and takes a long pull. All of us sat stunned and wide eyed at the truly strange moment that just occurred. Mr. Oak sets down the can and looks around at all the bug-eyed boys and immediately senses danger. I ask if the soda tasted OK. Of course he asked what was put in the soda can. We were honest and said a minnow flipped into the can.

Upon examining the empty can all that could be found were a few shiny scales from its former resident.

There really was a Harris. He is now a minister and I work at one of the Big 3 in Detroit. It was 1974 - 1979. Now I'm sending my boys off to camp in two weeks to start stories of their own. I've already told them that Pink Dish Soap should be handled with great care...dangerous stuff in the hands of a camp rookie. (grin)

I have one more story that came to mind. When I was 13 I went back to Lost Lake for two weeks. The first week was spent with another troop, I was a visitor. The next week was with my troop. By the middle of the second week I had really gotten to know the camp staff and how things work. However I was almost broke. My budget had not counted on buying cheeseburgers in town with the staff on the weekend.

After our lunch on Wednesday I had an idea. The jar of dill pickles was empty and we were just about to throw out the pickle brine and jar. (Days before recycling)I bet my patrol a $1 a piece that I could drink the half jar of pickle brine. I made a show of it. Soon the entire troop wanted in on the action. There was $20 on the line. Needless to say I drank the entire contents of the jar. I was burping dill pickles for the rest of the day but I was $20 richer. But it gets better.

Harris was a friend of mine in another patrol. Seeing the quick buck I made, he bet everyone that he could drink down a big table spoon full of pink dish soap. I couldn't believe it. I had my First Aid merit badge and knew the outcome. I bet the entire $20 that I just made that he couldn't do it. In fact I warned him off of doing it, but he was determined. Needless to say Harris was tossing his cookies and had a miserable afternoon. I felt so bad for him I didn't press him to collect and warned off everyone else would wanted their $1. Later that day I split the profits I made and we had sodas and candy bars from the trading post that evening.

Back in the day I was on my first summer camp up at Lost Lake near Clair Michigan. Toward the end of the week it was my turn to cook. Our Scoutmaster was the guest of honor. We were cooking over an open fire and we "soaped" the bottom of the pans so it would not be a huge chore to scrub the soot from the pan. Well in my zeal not to blow a half hour scrubing pans I must have put a bit too much pink dish soap on the bottom of the pan. It dripped down to the edge and must have followed the side into the pot when I flipped it over.

As the corn was cooking I noticed the prettiest bubbles coming up from the boiling corn. Being age 11 with not too many hours of cooking time under my belt I didn't think anything about it until we took our first bites of corn. Blaaa. I was banned from cooking for the rest of the week.