mk9750

Ditto, ditto, DITTO! As I have seen Bob White and others say a few times, advancement is a RESULT of a good program, not the purpose of it. If the boys put together a quality program, with the purpose of developing Scout skills, then if I'm not mistaken (and I'm going from memory here), only two requirements for Tenderfoot through 1st Class cannot be learned and earned properly (The drug program, which at least in our area is done through the schools, and meeting an elected official, which, although it would be possible to arrange for one to visit the Troop, we feel there is value in aski

All of the above points are good. He should have a buddy when doing a Merit Badge, ESPECIALLY if it with someone he doesn't know. He should have contacted the councelor before he started. And, a very important part of the MB program is a boy learning to interact with adults. This is even more valuable when it is a stranger. However, at 12 years old, there is reason for a boy to feel aprehensive in this situation. If he was 16, I'd say suck it up and make the call. But a t 12, someone like the Scoutmaster or Advancement chair could help make the initial contact for him. I'd steer away from the

Ryon, Hang in there. If it was easy, everyone could do it. You have the job because you are either qualified, or have the potential to be qualified. A few suggestions: 1) Make sure you get trained. It sounds like the resources might not be available in your Troop for JLT, but even if they aren't hook up with another Troop for this very important training. And get to Council JLT as soon as they offer it. 2) One of your jobs as SPL is to train your replacement. This is the best oppurtunity you have to make your ASPL valuable to you. Use him and his tallents, whate

BW, I had always heard Scout isn't a rank, but our Council Registrar is requiring that we turn Scout rank awards into the Council now. I think it has something to do with the Computer system BSA has started to use (I can't recall the name of the program). But they are now treating it like a rank, even if it isn't. Mark

packsaddle, Your rights were absolutely violated when you registered to vote, but it certainly wasn't because government (and in this case, if your state is like mine, it wasn't even the federal government, it was a county) was establishing a religion, it was the ignorance of the local elections official(s). You certainly should have argued about this, and brought suit if denied. But I don't see this as evidence of a right wing conspiracy theory to overthrow the citizen's government and establish a theocracy. Nor is the position of Justice Scalia. He is attempting to do his best to defend

littlebillie, I am glad that you posted this. I have always read into your posts on the topic that you were somewhat hateful of Scouting, at least with regard to this topic. I think I see now that you are a Scout supporter, just not about this issue. Knowing that allows me to give your comments a little more respect than perhaps I was. Stripped to the bones, Scouting will always be relevant and vital. It has too much to offer, and too many people who know that, to die. Our task is to continue to expand those who know of its value and importance. Seems to me, that just like the b

I missed one point. If it is tracking down and eliminating terrorism that is the reason, than both Pakistan and Saudi Arabia appear to be more inportant targets right now. Mark

On another thread, someone mentioned how prevelent it is that people are conservative on some issues, and liberal on others. This is a perfect example in my case. I am staunchly conservative, and although I am a declared independant, and will and have voted for a Democrat, my general leaning is hard right. I believe GW IS the right man for our country, and am glad he was elected. This feeling only increased because of the way he handled 9/11. But I can't figure out what our real reason is for the potential attack on Iraq. As with everyone else here, I believe Irag, and more specifically,

It relates to Scouting in that I have four Eagle Scouts who are turning 18 in the next 6 weeks in my Troop. I have 11 Eagle Scouts and two others that have been out of my Troop for 1 - 7 years, two of which are in the military, one in Kuwait. And it relates to Scouting in the same way that both Citizenship of the Nation and Citizenship of the World do. If it is inappropriate for this forum, I apoligize and plead ignorance. I saw a thread concerning supporting our Troops, and felt that my question was on par with that. Mark

What is everyone's opinion on the imminent war with Iraq? I'm not talking about support for our troops, That should be an obvious given. But how about opinions on its validity, and on the likelihood of success? I'd be curious to see how others feel. Mark

kwc57, I said earlier that I probably should bow out of this discussion and let more intellegent people carry on. I probably will wish I had heeded my own advise, but here goes: Scriptures were written by humans, inspired by God, but framed in the context of their understanding of the world. Hence, there are a lot of examples of things that seemed acceptable in the day they were written (stoning people comes to mind, in addition to slavery), but are not acceptable now. Your question I think is good acedemically, but I can't believe anyone in this forum would take up the arguement tha

lv, As much as I disagree with you on two issues very important to us both, I too am sad to see us lose you. I must protest your use of the terms bigotry and intolerance. Are you not as bigoted and intolerant in your position as you think Scouting (and those that defend) is? I'd rather believe that neither are being so ugly. Scouting's position is AT LEAST as reasonable as is yours. If yours is a reasonable position, and Scouting's position is its equal, than either both are bigoted and intolerant, or neither are. And as one who thinks, at least in this case, that BSA is right

littlebillie, Can I admit you make a great point about the tea party without saying I agree with it? Here's why I ask: Take any topic in the past that was heatedly debated: Slavery, taxation w/o representation, to name a few, and it is mostly fair to say that the majority, or at least those that held the power, believed their position was right. We now know they were wrong. How can something widely held as moral or right become immoral or wrong? And if it can happen in those cases, could it not happen with other issues, like homosexuality? Obviously, you can see that I get your poi

Twocubdad, I sense that one of the posts you take to task with your discussion of the "love it or leave it" issue was mine. If so, let me offer this. I see merit in both sides of the arguement as to whether tj or other homosexuals could or should be asked to leave Scoutiing. I also see merit in both sides of the arguement as to whether Scouting should even limit membership to those who are not gay, regardless of how that is defined. My point is that if Scouting does desire to avoid homosexual leaders, it should not matter whether they "can" kick someone out. I believe that some

Yes, tough one indeed. I would guess that the Dad is staying for the weekend, but is not a SM or ASM, right? If that's the case, he likely doesn't understand the hardship he causes by leaving. If so, I would have two suggestions. The first would be to explain to the Dad what the conseguences of them leaving are to the boys and Dads left, and strongly suggest that they not do so again. The second is a little more radical. Our experience has been that often these kind of father / son duos could benefit from a little more time away from each other. If they seem to always hang around each other du

Our Troop currently has three patrols with @ 40 boys. Except that each patrol has its own quartermaster (to whom the Troop Quartermaster dispenses gear when a patrol needs Troop gear), the patrols only other leadership positions are PL and APL. At a Troop level, we have all of the standard positions, plus a webmaster. We hold elections every 6 months, however, as I described in another thread, our elections seem to be a stepping stone process, where mostly everyone just moves up a notch. Den Chiefs are identified and assigned, but they only qualify for credit as a leadership position if they h

tj: Thanks for the olive branch. I am glad that my inadequate efforts to describe my position did not overshadow the genuineness of my respect for you. I had two reasons for my use of the work "lifestyle". Mostly, it was an easy catch all word for homosexuality, homosexual tendencies, and activities. But I do admit that I intententally used the word to convey my belief that it is a choice, not predetermined. Also, I assure you that my participation will not change regardless of whether I know a gay person is here. I get a real kick out of people using the work "Homophobe" (it h

Now that I go back and read page one of the posts, I see that I am wrong, and ScoutParent did say that. Another apology. Perhaps I will now act on my offer to retreat and let better minds take up the discussion. Mark

tj, You attributed a quote to ScoutParent I think that actually I made. It would be ashame to allow him or her to take any critism you mean for me. I belive you do not live up to the Scout Oath and Law in that you are not being truthful about your lifestyle. Do we all have to be truthful about ours? No, because ours does not violate BSA rules. Additionally, everyone can see how I live, happily married. I do not live a lie to the Scouting part of my life. I believe this is contrary to the first point of the Law. If I were I to cheat on my wife, this would be immoral, and not liv

kwc57, You caught me not checking the dictionary for an exact definition, and I apoligize. However, you seem to have gotten the biggest part of my point. tj and others break at least the spirit of the rules by being homosexual. Regardless of anyone's knowledge, one cannot actively participate in homosexual activity and justify those actions as in alignment with the Scout Oath and Law. SagerScout, If the inclination toward homosexual tendencies is not chosen, as I think you argue, (I disagree, but I admit that disagreement is not based on any thorough knowledge of the science on

Merlyn, Do you really think that the test for being "avowed" is acknowledgement? Do you not believe that if any member committed a crime, continued to commit a crime, and had no intention of stopping from committing that crime, though done secretively, he is not an "avowed" criminal? Please do not misunderstand. I am using an analogy, not saying homosexuality is a crime. But largely how we do or do not live up to rules and regulations is not publicly known. If we break a rule, and intend to continue to break a rule, and do so knowingly,it is incumbent on us, on our own, to acknowledg

tj, First, to answer your question, I agree with scoutparent that your chosen life style is contrary to the policy quoted. I also believe that you continue to disregard the Oath and Law you agree to live by. We all fail, me more than most. But I don't wake up every day knowing that I will fail to live up to my Oath. I find a new and exciting way that life humbles me every day. You know every day that you cannot honestly profess to living the Scout Law and Oath. Secondly, and I fear this will be seen as insincere, but I really do mean it. I would prefer that rather than you leaving S

tj, I also have the same question Ed has. How do you, or those in Scouting who know the whole truth, justify that with being Trustworthy? I am 100% certain that you are a valuable member of the Scouting movement. I am 100% certain that your lifestyle is wrong. I am 100% certain that regardless of my opinion, you should lead the life you chose. But finally, I am 100% certain that if the BSA says that you should not be in Scouting, you should not be in Scouting. I am reletively sure that there are plenty of men who would make great Catholic priests, but cannot because they choose to b

KS, you out there? We haven't heard anything from you on your boys' trip. At least I am interested in hearing about it. Mark

I get quite a bit frustrated reading the debates over this issue. Many people feel that homosexuality is acceptable, many others feel it is not. I am in the camp of the latter. However, I respect, and DEFEND the rights of the others to believe as they see fit. They may certainly utilize their rights and speak about it and promote it. They may utilize other rights and associate freely with others who are of like mind, and they may exclude those whose beliefs are not consistent with their own. They can even start an organization that has the same activities, advancement themes, etc., as Boy Scou