BadenP

The scout did nothing wrong or illegal, a border patrol officer is not an undercover agent in any way so it is not illegal to take their picture They are little more than security cops whose duty it is to verify identities and citizenship and if there is reasonable cause can search for contraband. They can arrest and detain only if the ID is questionable or a person is hiding something illegal. That officer for drawing down on a kid for such a minor act should be terminated, they are better trained than that.

It is sad to me how many OA lodges in my council and my former councils have bit the dust or are no longer active anymore and the total lack of concern by the councils executives. IMO the OA has seen its apex and has been in a steady decline for the last 15-20 years.

The boys really seem to care less after they get their flap and sash they just seem to disappear.

Ox I understand exactly where you are coming from however I was relaying you what should be happening which your pack is not doing. This CM has NO authority to be doing what he is doing and it is the COR and the COR alone who has the authority to put him in line. Otherwise all you get is a bunch of infighting with no results and it is the boys who wind up the losers.

Ox you and perididochas are both WRONG! The CO owns and controls everything done in the pack through the COR. If the COR feels that the cubmaster is out of line they have and only they have the authority to move or dismiss a leader NOT THE CM. That is simply spelled out in all the BSA literature. The COR in league with the IH can close up a pack at anytime, especially if the leaders are going rogue. This CM is not following protocol and should probably be let go for the good of the pack and the boys

A Cubmaster can do nothing about pack leaders or their assignments without first getting the approval of the COR and Pack Committee, and he better have a good reason to begin with otherwise he should get the boot.

Which is no different than the BSA insisting that gay parents do not make good scout leaders. Where is their data to prove this position?

The sad truth is that many scouts are being called names and teased and insulted by their friends and adults who see them in their uniforms because of the wishy washy stance National has taken on this issue. That is why Trail Life is attracting more new members than the BSA, why should the kids have to suffer over the politics and policies of the organization.

I think baggs is correct. The BSA has taken a turn for the worse starting with the 1970's urban scouting, as a former DE myself in the late 80's seeing some of the internal corruption on the council and national levels first hand, and watching the continuing and increasing trend of closing councils and selling camps to cover up severe financial mismanagement by council scout executives while on the other hand seeing scouts proud of receiving badges they have worked so hard to earn, and enjoying learning outdoor and leadership skills, makes me wonder where and why the disconnect. Why has the BSA continued to lose the respect of both scouters and the public at large and can it recover from the hole it has dug so deeply for itself.

Lance Just one word for all you have done for the country and now for scouting "AWESOME"

These kind of parents really ruin the scouting experience for the boys. Scouting is supposed to teach the boys self reliance, organizational skills and leadership, instead these parents push the boys the way they think is right, do all the organization for the boys, and force them into activities they may not want to do. In other words all work, no play, no fun, and limited interaction with other scouts. These boys wind up leaving scouts feeling it is" boring and no fun".

HH - Torch is correct no leader can add to or change the requirements for advancement and they can not have the boys leading the den as they will get that chance when they join a troop.

It is true that you. seem to only see the DE at FOS time and the rest of the year good luck finding him. Same thing can be said for so called council services, they sold our camp so no summer programs. What good are they anyway.

If I read Evan's bio correctly, he was involved with Venturing when it came out in 1998, and HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER! It is just exteremely frustrating to see national changing the 14-20 yo program every 15-20 years. there is no stability, to "branding" etc tec.

qwazse - the awards really need to be the teens idea or desire to earn. I disagree with linking them with boy scout awards, that is the trouble Venturing has been having all these years, being too closely tied with boy scouts instead of the separate and independent program it is and should be. Every crew I have come across in my council that runs its program similar to a troop has FAILED within 1-2 years. If you want to have a Venturing crew you need to have it something for the teens to look forward to with NEW and DIFFERENT experiences and not a repeat of the same old thing.

exnicios,

You can always do what I have done with my DE when he asks to do an FOS talk, I tell him if he wants to ask for a certain dollar figure what additional services or benefits will the units receive from the council for the additional cash. Last year he asked the parents to consider doubling their contribution and after getting grilled with questions from the parents about what new things the council was going to offer he ended quickly and ducked out of there like a rabbit. Funny he hasn't asked about FOS since.

Not only do the Folks in Irving have challenges, apparently some of the volunteers who helped implement the program's changes. Everyone keeps harping on the the fact that a very small percentage of Venturers earn any recognitions. For whatever reason, they seem to forget that the awards are not, and never were intended to be advancement like Cub Scout, Boy Scout, and Sea Scout ranks, but instead recognitions for Venturers to work on IF they, or as I was taught by the national director of Venturing at the time, the Charter Organization is interested in the recognition program.

I too talked to Bill Evans as well a while back concerning our crew advancements and he was impressed by the number who had received Silver, Ranger, and Trust Awards. He asked me what my secret was and I told him, just deliver an exciting, challenging, and fun program and the teens will pursue the awards on their own without any arm twisting. Our crew is growing every year and going stronger than ever, 90 at last count.

More info can be found here, http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/02/12/new-venturing-award-names-announced/

National just can not help screwing around with Venturing until they destroy the program all together. Those pencil pushers in Irving don't know what they are doing as usual, and the membership continues to decline each year.

Stosh and BD bring up some very good points. It is not the Eagle that makes an honorable scout it is the boy and how he advances and what he learns and retains as an adult. The Eagle is merely a checklist as BD said, many put their heart into receiving Eagle while many others do the absolute minimum work to squeeze by. It is those minimalists that I have no respect for.

Stosh and BD bring up some very good points. It is not the Eagle that makes an honorable scout it is the boy and how he advances and what he learns and retains as an adult. The Eagle is merely a checklist as BD said, many put their heart into receiving Eagle while many others do the absolute minimum work to squeeze by.

It's weird even though there have been others who have written after RichardB, he stays displayed as the last person to make a comment. I don't have anything to add, just seeing if a new message rather then a comment to RichardB will kick it out of being hung up on Richard.

Here is how the FAQ on the subject is worded. Source page: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/gen_faq.aspx And yes, it directly quotes the GTSS. However, to the OP, would you think differently if you had a wolf age or even a 16 yr old daughter? Would you bring her along?......Neither situation is part of the Boy Scout Program, it is just not scouting. There are some specific family oriented events by design - like Day Camp tot lots or PTC where family programming is included. This would not be one of those.

 

Q. Can a leader bring his or her younger children on a troop campout?

A. The Camping section of the Guide to Safe Scouting states:

“If a well-meaning leader brings along a child who does not meet these age guidelines, disservice is done to the unit because of distractions often caused by younger children. A disservice is also done to the child, who is not trained to participate in such an activity and who, as a nonmember of the group, may be ignored by the older campers.â€Â

The present course that was introduced in 2000 is not like the previous course started in the 60's that was designed for experienced scoutmasters. And think goodness. You all don't realize how much of a problem the old course was because the new course has been running pretty well for 13 years now. But the problem with a course that simulates a perfect troop is that the partticipants that have no other experience to base a troop program on would force their scouts to function exactly like the WB troop. It all started with the inclusion of women as leaders because up until that time, the majority of troop leaders had some scouting experience as a youth. For men and women who didn't have any scouting experience gave them the best picture of running a troop. But wasn't intended to be an end all top shelf troop model program, it was a simply the model used for the real purpose of teaching adults different teaching styles. Yep, WB was not intended to teach adults how to run a troop, it's intention was guiding scoutmasters new teaching styles. But that intention got lost after 1990 because many of the adults used the course as the ideal troop model and that cause a lot of problems with units struggling. If the scouts didn't respond like the participants in WB, they leaders didn't know what to do and generally overreacted. The new course is directed toward team buidling. Thats why Cub leaders are encouraged as well. I was our District person who worked with struggling adult committees and 9 times out of 10, the main problem was the unit didn't have a vision or a team concept. Each adults function on their own doing what they felt was important. I only had to show committees their vision and get them to understand each persons role on the team. It works very well and I think has benefited the program. I do however agree that the BSA needs to provide better access to outdoor skills. Almost 3/4 of adult joining troops today do not have any experience in scouting. And that has it's own problems. Barry

Since uniforms have always been and will continue to be optional in Venturing it really doesn't matter what National does. If the new uniform is horrible few crews will wear it and instead will choose from a myriad of options as our crew has done. The current Venturing shirt is pretty pathetic in both looks and style so almost anything would be an improvement.

All the Venturing Awards are VOLUNTARY and are NOT considered advancement awards like in boy scouts. In our crew the teens choose whether or not what they want to earn all or none. Crews can organize around any activity allowed by the BSA and should not be run like a troop. It is NOT a matter of badges earned since their is NO advancement in rank in Venturing. National's pencil pushers has NEVER really gotten a hold of what Venturing is all about, maybe they should try reading the Venturing manuals for a change instead of just making sweeping changes to the program, without rhyme or reason.

well Since they are not allowed on Dance Teams or Ceremonies Teams or anything official they Help with Regalia because they Want to.. Is the Only thing as Youths they are allowed to do directly for the Lodge just like a Parent can help..Several Do Cut the grass and other "Manly" work around the Council Camp. It is a Girl that is always called upon to catch a Snake in the Pool House also...

 

Well I relate my scouting experience to Where I live...just as you do. I can't tell you how a troop in Jackson Hole Wyoming would run anymore the someone else who has never been involved there. Only someone who has been involved in a Troop there will tell you how one is run.

BadenP..Wow maybe you should come tell our Youth Females it has nothing to offer them...We got 'em lined up and waiting to join already with Regalia ...We had at least 6 Dance at Summer Call Out when We Had Open Dances in Ragalia. Several just turned 21 and were inducted as Adults..I wonder why They still want to join after sitting in the sidelines as a Youth in Venture Crew and was Considered unworthy to join as a Youth but bingo 21 Your IN Now. I sure would not have joined a Group that wouldn't let me join as a youth. As a side note Several of the Girls are the ones making the Boys Regalia...seems it is a Girl's duty to sew while the men provide food still..HAHA