BadenP

" We are no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free but one in the Body of Christ."

It is not for any of us to judge anothers faith for God is the only and final judge of what is in a persons heart. Jason this is the one point you need to understand, it is not up to you or anyone else to condemn someone for their beliefs. Jesus embraced all he encountered pagan, Jew or Christian; that was the example he gave us to follow. Do not blaspheme God by claiming to speak for him rather show love and compassion and the light will show through to others. God is the only one who is always right.

My Venture Crew put together care packages, and did a book drive for our troops in Iraq. Weput together 500 care packages and collected over 500 books that were delivered to a local Army reserve base who flew them out the next day. The crew received a commendation from the base CO, and the local council called me to put the crew in for this award after reading about the project in a tiny local paper. The teens were overwhelmed by the response, they felt proud to do their bit for the troops.

TP what you said is basically true with a couple of exceptions. First any new DE can not always remove an entrenched volunteer, as much as they may need to, it goes through proper protocols. As you know in the business world males can and do patronize women. When a female DE goes in selling Boy Scouts, she is not as quickly accepted as her male counterpart. You are right that if she is tough and determined she will overcome this obstacle. Bob has got it down exactly, it takes many years to become an SE and regional office makes those decisions.

I have worked with two female DEs when I was a professional. They were both very good at their jobs, however they told me that many of the male volunteers would not accept them and gave them a bad time. Unfortunately both resigned after only one year. I have no problem with a woman Scout Exec., but honestly I think there are probably problems with acceptance not only with volunteers but also with the business community in soliciting the financial support that the council needs.

Unc

Thanks for the olive branch, you show the true scouting spirit, and i accept and agree with you.

Bob and Eamonn, I'm sorry you guys feel the way you do, I hope you two might change your minds in the future as I really never meant to offend you two , and I bear no ill will to either of you.

TP- Man you gave me as many laughs as I gave you. You have a great sense of humor, Peace.

"Methinks you both doth protest too much."

I could show you both where you went out of your way to insult me. Frankly, I do not want to rehash the past and am willing to let bygones be bygones, but apparently neither of you are big enough to do the same, too bad. Well I won't lose any sleep over it. Looks to me like you two can dish it out but not take it. Maybe I was right after all.

Gee guys you have to devote a forum to me to take potshots, that is so sad. Bob, Unc, TP,Eamon, etc. if insulting me gives you your jollies go right ahead I can take it. I want to all to know I don't dislike any of you. In fact I was hoping we could exchange info and experiences, since most of you have been in scouting a long time. Something I said a long time ago apparently set all of you against me, hence that post stating "you guys don't know squat". I want you guys to know I really didn't mean it. I hope we could start over, but if you guys don't want to thats okay too. In either case thanks for devoting a forum to me, lol.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

TrailPounder

Your last post to me just proves my point, look who is name calling. You know nothing about my background so your comments are slanderous, untrue, as well as unfounded. I think it is you who needs to learn to be civil.

UNC - I will send you a book on how to write poetry, lol.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

I stand by what I said.

(short enough for you TP)

To Eammon, OGE, Bob, TP

For supposedly long time scouters you really don't seem to know very much. In the forum on religion I have seen you insult people who do not agree with you in a cold and vile attack. I think all of you should re- read the Scout Oath and Law because you sure don't live by them. I feel sorry for the boys that are exposed to your loathsome prejudice and ridiculous ideologies. It is too bad that any scouting unit feels the need to rely on any of your assistance. If anyone has any fear about the future of Scouting they should start with people like yourselves, and may God have mercy. To all the rest of you in these forums, most of these so called old pros are inactive in scouting for obvious reasons, so ignore their insults. Don't be afraid to express dissenting opinions cuz these guys don't know squat.

I would agree with most of what you all have been saying. One big complaint I hear all the time is that the BSA program and policies are too slanted towards the needs and desires of the Mormon Church, who is the largest Chartered Partner in many areas of the country. That the Mormons run their scouts through award mills turning out 13 or 14 yr old Eagle scouts who have not really earned this highest honor in Scouting. In my council their programs are given a blind eye by the professionals because of their large financial support. What do all of you scouters feel about this? Do you feel this is true? I know many good Mormon scouters who tell me they have witnessed this in their church troops. When I was a DE with 45% Mormon units in my district I tried to integrate all youth and adult training with non Mormon units and leaders, but their was always a core of Mormon scouters who did their own thing and we were told to let them do their own thing. Many of the youth and adults became angry on how fast the Mormon scouts and scouters earned their awards. As hard a time that I have with this I still believe we need scouting for our youth. In my current district the roundtable is held in a Mormon stake house and the Venture crews that are co-ed are not allowed to ever be a color guard since it is not in line with Mormon scouting guidelines. This has been a real irritant to me, anyone have any suggestions?

Hi,

I am fairly new to this forum.

I got involved in scouting starting at 12yrs old because my family hated camping and the outdoors, which I love. I was a life scout, patrol leader, etc. In my 20's I was an Asst. SM. In my 30's I was a Webelos Leader for two years and a District Executive, OA Advisor, JLT Advisor, and Camp Director for 3 years. Now in my 40's I am a Venturing Advisor for one crew and an asst. Advisor for another crew. I love Scouting and, this looks like a great group to swap stories and suggestions with.

I just wanted to add my two cents worth. First I have experienced Scouting as both a volunteer and a Professional Scout Executive so I have seen both sides. Are there some things that could use some change, sure there are. Should the BSA be undermined because of them, no way. Everyone has a right to disagree, but as one of you said ,"never in front of the youth." I am a Venture Advisor and the COR for my unit, we have changed many things in our district and council through our COR meetings, after getting feedback from leaders in our district. Find out who the COR is for your unit and invite them to your meetings, get them active with you and the council. It is, and always be my strong belief that Scouting is the best youth program offered today, even with its problems, many of which can be handled on a local level. You have an open line of communication with your council and Charter org. use them and watch what happens.

Hey MarineLaw,

My Venture crew and I are heading down to the Florida Sea Base in a couple of weeks. I will let you know if there is anything to your fears. So far the personnel have been wonderful and responsive to me. They even sent me a video on what happens for the week to show to the parents. After viewing it they all seemed to be perfectly comfortable that safety was a top concern. I am not a very experienced sailor and I am not worried at all. I will update you when I get back.

You guys ever notice that its just the three or four of you old senior members on this forum, I wonder why? Unc, I'm glad your buddies could help you plan out your meeting, even though it is already done for you in the book "Here's Venturing". You all should get a copy of it if you stay in Venturing, its a great resource of ideas. Well it is obvious you good ol boys are not wanting anyone else crashing your lil group so I wish you all well, even you Unc. I hope you treat your units well and they continue to grow in the scouting spirit.It has been a pleasure getting to know you gentlemen. SEE YA!

Mr. White after reading your last two insulting letters I am not going to get into verbal wars with you. Suffice it to say that in your last letter to me your opinion on Venturing is totally false, it did not replace Exploring but is a totally seperate program. Just because a few people you know tried to implement the program incorrectly does not mean the program is flawed. I did not read any compliments to me in your last letter, just a vicious attack about my professionalism. Your statements on National are based on the limited information you have heard from others, whereas I spent three months training and working there, and another three years as a DE in a council. I do not hate the National office on the contrary, but what I explained was information that we are told never to share with volunteers. It was for those ideas that I sadly left the profession, as I never wanted to manipulate my volunteers or do anything I considered immoral or improper, but money is King to National over everything else.

Mr. White, I have said my last to you since I believe as I said before you epitomize to me the kind of volunteer the BSA does NOT NEED. So please go cast your verbal poison on someone else, I wash my hands of you.

Bob White, your reply shows a high degree of insults and immaturity. While I was a DE my districts and council were the highest in numbers and money raised in its entire history. For your information I had no less than five offers to return to my position, but I turned them down because of my current lucrative position. Next unless you have been to the National Professional Training Center you should keep your ignorant comments to yourself. I won't lower myself as to tell you what kind of Scouter you are, even though it was probably many years ago. Finally to silence you ill informed critics I will have you know that I have been offered a position at the National Scout Center in Texas. If I was so unprofessional why is it they want me back? I was relating my personal story and experience, but I will always feel that Scouting is by far the best youth program there is and I am proud of my time as a scout, as a DE ,and curently as a scouter.Mr White I believe your attitude encompasses all that is wrong with a minority of scouters who can only view things with a narrow tunnel vision, and prevented Venturing from coming into exsistence a long time ago. Your insults to me show that you are a small man with a small mind,

This is to specifically you Bob White. You are wrong on most of your rebuttals to my letter. First, since its beginnings to the late sixties scouting was at a national high of over 5 million, since the 1970's the numbers of scouts has dropped by more than half and the movement has never been that high again. National figures are usually overinflated to present a better picture, I know this since I helped work them up one year. More than twenty five percent reported are only paper units put in to make the council look better, this is a fact from personal experience with National stat dept.

Second, the reason councils are going out is because funds being collected on financial campaigns have been dropping dramatically over the last five years because of the economy, and overall decreasing numbers of scouts. Another reason is that the council programs being provided are decreasing or non exsistant, many units in my area have more of an adversarial relationship. Case in point the council in Seattle is taking 15% of the income from Sea Scout Regattas, etc. to cover their administative costs, even though these events are held off council property and there are no council reps at any of these events. The result is the Sea Scout units are holding all events away from Seattle in another council and reducing their contributions to FOS by 15%.

Thirdly, let me tell you what DE's at National are taught, how to "squeeze prominent business people in your district to get them to give up the most money possible", how to "manipulate volunteers to get them to do what you want", and "how to create units quickly", without securing the necessary leaders or number of scouts for a viable unit. Then they told us that it is policy for DE's to be transferred to new councils every three years because they will usually wind up being unsucessful after that time ,their district resources will be all dried up and a new DE has to develop new sources since the prior ones are left feeling used and angry. I am here to tell you that National cares less about program, and only about money and whatever unit growth they can get. Mr. White you do not know of what you speak concerning National or any of your stats, a 15% growth in one unit is insignificant in the big picture. If you think that National has the best interest of the boys, I tell you now from personal experience IT IS NOT TRUE. My friends still in the profession tell me it keeps getting worse every year, the demands National puts on the councils. One last point Mr. White most councils go under because they stop delivering program and the parents pull their kids, and the scouters in a council stop supporting it financially. I could tell you a lot more stories that would change your opinions, if you want to debate this further, but your facts and stats are just wrong.

Wow, I didn't expect all of these replies, and I did not mean the term crybaby applied to all of you, my apologies. In my district I have seen too many new crews fail due to "red-coat-itis", and good Venture leaders ostracized for so called stealing the older boy scouts, 15 yrs and up. The point I was trying to make is that Venture is very capable of standing on its own, and that scoutmasters need to look at these crews as potential partners rather than adversaries. TwoCub is right when he stated that older boy scouts are disappearing more each year if Venture brings them back, then great. I also agree that a Venture crew inside a troop is a self defeating measure, however an alliance with a seperate Crew could be of great benefit and could be an incentive for the boys as they get older to stay connected to Scouting. As all of you have seen recently Scouting has been diminishing these last 15-20 years. Councils are folding or being absorbed, and the services from Dist. Execs. and councils seem non exsistant. I was a DE for three years and I was always at every district event and Eagle Board of Review and Ceremony representing the council. Nowadays most units don't even know who their DE is or what they do. It saddens me that all DE's do now is raise money and try to keep units from folding, many of them with no experience in scouting or understanding of the programs.

To all of you leaders in Scouting you are to be commended on keeping Scouting alive. We are all the glue that holds the program together. We should all be united as one in the spirit of BP himself.

Wow what a bunch of crybabies. First thing all you old time scouters fail to recognize is that Venturing was not established to be another boy scout troop, but a program to bring both male and female teens in touch with their leadership and personal skills who may have never been in Scouting before. All of the crews I have seen who model themselves like a troop fail in the first two years. Another thing, as all you scoutmasters know, when a boy scout reaches 15-17 years of age they get bored of scouts and take an interest in girls. Statistics show senior boy scouts are few in number overall. Now Venture is a program more youth controlled bringing new teens to the ideals of scouting without all the trappings of uniforms, etc. that younger boys enjoy. What I have found is that that girls challenge the guys towards advancement, but those who do not want to pursue awards are still welcomed and accepted.

So you are right in stating that Venturing is not a traditional scouting program, thank God for that. What this program is doing is bringing some old scouts back and a lot of new youth who need some guidance and ideals in their lives. I would challenge anyone who thinks that Venture is not really a scouting program. I have started two crews, the first one two years ago started with six teens and now has twenty five, and still growing. The second one started this year with twenty grew to thirty five and next year will top fifty. Venturing is a fantastic program that is coming into its own and will stand independent from troops soon enough, meanwhile those of us Venture Advisors with successful programs are not looking to steal boys from troops rather bring some back with this new format and open the doors to those teens who have never been exposed to Scouting ideals before. Venturing can and is standing on its own merits and program.

I started a new crew this past year, 25 members over half female where I am youth pastorat the church. Advancement was not required or forced, but the girls got the boys motivated and ten have completed their first bronze in Religious Life and their faith award, and are working on other segments. They have all participated in a variety of service projects, including one for the troops in Iraq. They have also gone on camping,backpacking and mountain climbing trips. Next month we are going river rafting. I have found out that when they realize they can receive credit for all these events they pursue advancement because they want to, not because they have to. I have seen too many crews fail because the Advisor tries to make it another boy scout troop, which doesn't work well in a coed crew. Another crucial factor is to have solid and highly motivated youth officers. I love the Venture program, it has revitalized my youth group. Make it fun and they will come, and advance at their own pace.