BadenP

I think twocubdad hit it right on the head it is the fellowship and friendships that the boy wants most and remembers the longest. As a former WL myself I felt it was more my job to find the best run troop  programs and direct them into those that already had boys they knew who came from our pack or who were their friends from school. It worked in my opinion since of the 15 webelos from my den over a 3 year period 12 became Eagles and three made it to Life, not too shabby if I say so myself. All of them told me they were in a great troop and had a great scouting experience

There were several scout huts in some small towns in my area, the land was donated to the local troops 75 years ago. The huts were used by the BSA/GSA jointly and worked out quite well for many years. Several years ago the Council SE found a legal loophole in the donation stating that land could not be donated to a local troop or troops since the units were part of the council and the land legally belonged to the council. After a six month trial the court agreed with the SE and title was turned over to the council. The sad result was the council was in a financial mess so the council sold the properties, the boy and girl scouts were tossed out after 3/4 of a century, the troops in all three towns disbanded, and the land where those scout huts once proudly stood are now strip malls.

Stosh and Renax

I agree with both of you 100%.   Our troop and crew run the traditional scout programs very close to Baden Powell's original vision, and we now have a waiting list since we are filled beyond capacity. I strongly feel that National desperately needs to get back to scouting's core roots or watch the continued decline of troops, crews and scouts until there is nothing left. STEM is NOT going to save the BSA in spite of what National thinks. It is imperative for them to talk to unit leaders out in the field with successful units and form them into an advisory group for programming advice to National. Our experience is that the youth really love the OUTDOOR emphasized program and its challenges. It is time for National to get off their  butts and realize they are heading down the WRONG path which will end with the potential demise of the BSA.

Tahawk

In this case old means the  past military style and looks of the uniform, and get rid of the hideous Khaki color. Time for something more contemporary.

Hey SP

Our pack sets up a pinewood derby track at a local mall twice a year where the kids can race old cars, and there is an area to buy a simple kit to build their own car under adult supervision. The mall loves all the extra customers they get from this event, and the pack gets a lot of new members every year.

Eagledad

I agree with most of your post, but I think that the trouble with the scout uniform is that it is a little outdated. There is too much trying to hold on to the old style of uniform instead of making it a multi wear piece of clothing that will appeal to the eye and needs of the teens of today. What is wrong with a uniform that can be made of more durable material is more practical and is less expensive, instead of it looking like a walking patch collection. If we really want the boys to want to wear their uniform it needs to first appeal to them instead of trying unsuccessfully to hold on to old and outdated traditional  uniform styles.

The reason they combined Sea Scouts with Venturing in the first place was that Sea Scouts numbers and ships have been dwindling rapidly over the last two decades and National hoped that by combining the two programs it would help to bring new life to both of them, but it did not work out as they hoped. Sea Scouts is a very expensive program, maintaining a power boat, insurance, fuel,maintenance, parts, and docking fees make it cost prohibitive these days. All of our councils ships are long gone and it was sad to see one of the original  and great programs of scouting disappear, it is all in the economics.

Mozartbrau

You obviously disagree which is fine with me,(sarcastically)  however the stats do NOT lie, boy scouts and troops are  becoming fewer and fewer in number. National thinks STEM is their saving grace since they continue to de-emphasis the outdoor program. On another thread you were having a tirade over having to fill out a silly little form to obtain badges from your council scout shop(Boo-Hoo) your priorities about being a "good scouter" seem to be a little screwed up. If the troop leaders do not emphasis the outdoor program more it is probable that their troop will fail ,or be small in number and look more like a science lab than a boy scout troop. Boys need to be challenged and exposed to new activities that stimulate or they will get bored and leave, like the troops I mentioned in my previous post. The result will be that the STEM-BSA will become a group of techno geeks that will become even fewer in number and IMO and an organization that will become even more ridiculed by both youth and adults alike.

^Six pages of posts and no one has had a decent argument how or why STEM belongs in Scouting. Stem activities are already available with merit badges, and in cub scout advancement, but should not be the focal point or a side program of the BSA. Six troops in my council tried a STEM focused program last year and five went under and the sixth is down to 5 boys and will probably be gone before the end of May. My point, Scouting was never designed for couch potatoes who are afraid of the outdoors. The further away we get from the roots of scouting to cater to the needs of boys who really do not belong in scouts the continued decline in boy scout troops and boy scouts will only increase, as statistics have shown. Lets keep the Outing in Scouting as our program focus and we can help the troop numbers and boy scout numbers begin to grow and get stronger again. Otherwise we will witness the continued decline and eventual demise of what once was the greatest youth program, teaching self reliance, leadership, and a love of the outdoors and the urgent need to protect it. The troop connected with my church, like our crew, keeps growing every year  as we put the main emphasis on our outdoor program. Our troop now numbers over 60 active members and is the largest in the council, how many of you pro STEM oriented scoutmasters can claim the same?

paemt You are correct and I apologize to you, I mistook you to be the original poster.

paemt = Earlier you stated you had a recent DUI now you are denying it, I have to seriously question your honesty and integrity and what kind of influence you will have on the boys. A scout is honest!

National has to run a complete criminal background check on you because of the DUI and that can take sometimes 2-3 weeks alone then there is the review process, probably two more weeks at least.

NJ Your critic of my post is sadly pathetic and inaccurate. The boy scout program has systematically been guided away from its outdoor emphasis over the last decade by the pencil pushers at National and, STEM is yet another example of their push to get those sedentary boys and adults with no interest in the outdoors to join the BSA. The reason, Numbers and Money and why because the numbers of boy scouts dropping out has been dramatically increasing every year since National's " dumbing down" of the program. More and more SE's are selling off council camps because fewer scouts are attending. As another infamous poster here has said a boy can now earn his Eagle without ever going camping. Many troop meetings have become little more than MB mills and many good scoutmasters have left the program in disgusted with the direction National has taken the program. So you go ahead and believe what you want but the facts do not lie and neither do the results.

Matthew I think you are missing the points others have made on STEM. In my council for example there are at least four troops where STEM makes up 90% of their programing, they camp1-2 times a year, the kids do not attend district or council camping events, and most of them have little to no basic scouting skills. While I think science MB's are just fine the STEM program is NOT scouting in any way shape or form. You can pull that bull that it " is bring scouting into the 22nd century" but that is just a false smokescreen. All STEM truly is a numbers game by National to bring boys who have NO real interest in the outdoors or scouting into the program in order to bring in more NUMBERS and more MONEY which are the only true goals of BSA National.

Prejudice has always been rampant in our society since the Founding Fathers and will continue to be so, in spite of PC and because of moronic TV and radio conservative commentators like Reilly, Limbaugh, etc., etc., etc.

As a former DE who handled a similar case with a potential volunteer, a RECENT DUI conviction will disqualify you because of possible risk to the youth and BSA policies regarding felony convictions. The CO has no authority to override BSA National's decision.

LeCastor- In most areas it is becoming much harder to find MB counselors because they become disgusted with interference by SM's and parents who think they know better, many councils are allowing troop leaders to do all MB counseling as a result. That takes away the boys ability to decide which MB's to pursue and who to counsel them. That is why many summer camps and troops have become nothing more than MB and Eagle mills with kids earning 6-8 badges in one week at camp and learning NOTHING in the process, that is NOT the boy scout way.

I am very glad that none of you are at National planning the future of the boy scout program or the merit badge program. Too much adult control on the troop level has greatly diminished the quality of the scouting program most boys receive. There is almost a total lack of SM's instilling in their boys a sense of independent decision making in place of telling them what to do and how to do it. How is that helping them to mature into young men?

I think mattman said it best, "when it stops being fun", and IMO when you feel your contribution is no longer being appreciated by first the boys and secondly the parents. When you do decide to leave never look back.

The problem is that scout leaders let these boys slide through the program and do not address the problem until the boy is up for Eagle and then they are told by the ECOR that they are not eligible because they are atheists. IMHO the sooner this situation is dealt with in the boys scouting experience the better, otherwise we do a great disservice to the scout.

They say that roundtables get an average attendance rate of 10% of the volunteers. So many I have attended have been disorganized, poorly presented and plain boring. The RT Commish in my district is a nice old retired man who doesn't have the drive or energy to put on a quality program and efforts to replace him have been thwarted by the DE so scouters have just stopped attending. At least we have the district Venturing program going strong without this guy's help.

If a troop is not using the patrol method they are not following Baden Powell's scouting program in the first place. Secondly with the onslaught of STEM rapidly replacing the basic scouting skills and outdoor activities scouting is becoming more and more a sedentary activity. A GPS is fun and has its place but a scout needs to learn how to ID their location by the stars, compass and landmarks. We as a society have become way too dependent on electronics and technology CONTROLLING our lives instead of being just another resource, and social media has become a very destructive weapon in tearing down other people. You need to have a balance in your life and scouting seems to be rapidly pulling away from the basics and essence of what made scouting great in favor of making scouting a science club. And we wonder why our membership keeps dropping?

SP- You need to understand that FOS supports the COUNCIL not the district, the council provides camps, trainings, council wide activities, and a professional staff to assist volunteers with problems in the units. If your district is apathetic that is not the councils problem, as the DE can only talk to and counsel the committee not force people to join. You unit leaders need to talk to the parents in your units who are doing nothing to support their son's scouting experience and remind them that scouting is a family involved activity that needs their participation to be successful.

desertrat You are right on target.

Tahawk is correct unfortunately, the only things National really cares about is seeing more numbers and units, even though many of them are little better than paper units and will fail in their first year, quality has never been an issue with National since all they really want to see is "the money". UC's are becoming an extinct species and new unit leaders in many districts get very little support, which they desperately need from council. Sadly we watch scouting shrinking more and more every year and wonder why, we blame sports and other activities that pull kids away from scouting instead of looking internally at our own organization for the answer.