ASM915

Scout, I would like a better idea who you are, age give or take 5 yr's? What region do you live in, south, Bible belt, etc.? I don't want to come across sounding like I'm chastising anyone. LH, I agree on the short history lesson. "Founded on Christian values", maybe, were intended, but actions speak louder then words. Once here it was back to the Euro-centric mindset of colonialism, "Let nothing stand in our way". Thus the NA conflicts. Scout, "witches, or Wiccans, or whatever you wish to call them do not belong in Scouting." I would have to dangerously assume that you are a religious conservative leaning way to the Right. Why did you ancestors come to this country? One thing being, RELIGIOUS FREEDOM! CORRECT? What use to be the CHRISTIAN take on other religions, customs, etc. that did not fit in with the doctrine of the time? "THEY ARE PAGANS, THEY ARE HEATHENS!" Along came the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the Witch Hunts. First in Europe, then in the U.S., with all (OK, I'll give, MOST of the charges being trumped up.) Why, because they refused to conform to the Judeo-Christian doctrine of the time and convert to the supposed TRUE FAITH. Dan, you can help out here on the history of things. Scout, if you haven't read the links that Dan has provided before jumping into the thread, please go back and read them. They are quite well worded, definitely fit with the Scouting program when it comes to outdoor philosophy. CoG is trying to teach their children the way of their religion: It's has been here longer then True Christianity: they are recognized by the US government, this is a country where religion can be freely practice. Do you have a preconceived ideas that because they, the CoG are Wiccan/Witches, that they are Satan/Devil Worshipers? As He said, "Love your fellow brother". Let's drop the uneducated bigotry toward eachother. And by the way, I'm Catholic and I know a little about my religions history and atrocities, How about you?

From Tragedy, Death and Sorrow does Life and Joy spring forth because of a Good Turn and Being Helpful to others at all times, even now. May he be remembered for these acts and may he be buried in his uniform and with full Honors. You are all in my thoughts and prayers. Here are some words from one of the greatest philosophers of last the century: Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you. You may give them you love but not your thoughts. For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. You strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you. For life goes not backward or tarries with yesterday. You are the bow from which your children as live arrows are sent forth. The archer seek the mark upon the path of infinite, and He bends you with His mighty that His arrows may go swift and far. Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness; For even as He love the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable. You would know the secret of Death. But how shall you find it unless you seek it in the heart of life? The owl whose night-bond eyes are blind unto the day cannot unveil the mystery of light. If you would indeed behold the spirit of death, open your heart wide to the body of life. For life and death are one, even as the river and sea are one. In the depths of your hopes and desires lies your silent knowledge of the beyond; And like seed dreaming beneath the snow your heart dreams of spring. Trust the dreams, for in them is hidden the gate to eternity. Your fear of death is but the trembling of the shepherd when he stands before the king whose hand is to be laid upon him in honor. Is the shepherd not joyful beneath his trembling, that he shall wear the mark of the king? Yet is he not more mindful of his trembling? For what is it to die but to stand naked in the wind and to melt into the sun? And what is to cease breathing, but to free the breath from its restless tides, that it may rise and expand and seek God encumbered? Only when you drink from the river of silence shall you indeed sing. And when you have reached the mountain top, then you shall begin to climb. And when the earth shall claim your limbs,then shall you dance. You joy is your sorrow. And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears. How else can it be? The deeper the sorrow carves into your being , the more joy you can contain, Is no the cup that holds your wined the very cup that was burned at the potters oven? And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the wood that was hollowed with knives? When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy. When you are sorrowful look again into you heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight. Some of you say, "Joy is greater then sorrow," and others, "Nay, sorrow is the greater." But I say unto you, they are inseparable. Together they come, and when one sits alone with you at your board, remember that the other is asleep upon your bed. Verily you are suspended like scales between your sorrow and your joy. Only when you are empty are you at standstill and balanced. When the treasure-keeper lifts you to weigh his gold and his silver, needs must your joy and sorrow rise and fall.

This touches close to home. I've had very good friends who have been here. My prayer go out to the famly ,Troop and community. May the Great Spirit watch over, protect and guide this young soul, which ever path Destiny may take him. In my field, I see this to often, children loosing parents, parents loosing children. I do not mean to appear out of line, especially not knowing the circumstances, but I have one request. Beaver and AD, if the outcome is looking poor, please have someone talk to the family whether donation is a possibility. So many time no one does. So many times the family in the sorrow never considered the option. So many times the family stated they would have considered and said yes. And so many times another life misses a chance. A SCOUT IS ALWAYS HELPFUL AND PREPARED, even during tragedy. Everyone is in my prayers.

Has anyone ever tried canoe race or 5K/10K run? Our town has a 4 day festival in July. We have a canal which runs a mile from town to the lock, several miles of river that runs parallel to the canal and miles on the towpath which is paved. We were discussing the possibility trying a single race or a triathlon style race. ANy suggestions? JJ, How large of a town and what kind of traffic flow are we talking about, small town, mid-size city? How many vehicles per hour? Any drinks or just Hoagies? Same meat or different kinds? How many scouts? And WHO MADE 900 HOAGIES FOR YOU ON SAT. MORNING? Someone must really like your troop.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Into patrols they were fashioned,

At our scouting reservation, our program is FROG. It is run by several camp staffers from 9AM to @ noon. They go over T-1st Cl. skills and sign them off. The NS then have the afternoon MB slot open to take one or go to a skills area if they qualify (kayaking, snorkling etc.) As for MB's like First Aid, Swimming, Pioneering and some others, there are Preq's that have to be met before camp, like 2nd and 1st class Swimming, First Aid, or Knot/Lashing skills with a letter from th SM confirming that the scout meets the Preq.

And throughout Geronimo his snore they did know.

Lisa, so how do you work around the apathetic parents at the pack level and or troop level?

Well stated Captain Gonzo. LongHaul, to bad the politicians think that they have to control everything. "We'll put through a bill stating a pullout deadline, and then add several attachments to it to blackmail the Pres. into signing it, because if he vetos it, he'll hurt the American people here at home." Yea, real nice of the DC crowd. I agree. Do everything to keep them safe. Find another way to bring everything to an end without cutting the military budget. Also LongHaul, just remember, every new President usually end up having to clean up his predecessors mess, 2008 for Bush (it could have been handled better), Bush for Clinton (if the hormones and the liberalism could have been kept under control, maybe several of Gonzo's references could have been prevented), I'm sure Daddy B. had a few loose ends for Clinton (I don't really recall many other the 1st Gulf, but who knows whee Sadam would have stopped). Usually everyone leaves a little mess for the next one.

When my 20y/o sat his EBOR, the District rep's were quite surprised and interested at the number of outdoor/nature related MB's, and that his Life and Eagle projects centered around nature and Native Culture. They stated that it was extremely rare to see such a grouping now a days. Troop wise, last April on Earth Day, we tried to set up a weekend camping trip canoeing down our local river doing a cleanup as we went. It drew four scouts and two leaders. The weather delayed us one day, but on the second day we got started at 2PM. The first half of the trip turned up little. The first 200 yards after the confluence of a large creek (may have been a river), we had all three canoes literally overflowing with trash. To bad there wasn't more of a turnout, it was really needed. It just seems everyone thinks that conservation projects are to much work or not worth their time. I feel that we need to really push stewardship early, during Cubs to really instill a sense of ownership and responsibility, then maybe it will carry over into Boy Scouting. In May we place the flags on the graves of the Vet.'s for our CO, the VFW and march in the parade with them. We also have helped the MS Foundation passing out H2O for the Marathon runners on the towpath on Sat. and then clean up the towpath during a hike on Sun, until the MSF moved everything south several miles. We've helped the Food Cupboard at XMAS prepare and deliver food baskets to the needy. Do any of your Councils have a Conservation Committee? If so how do they function, as their own committee or as a subcomm. of the Camping and Grounds Comm.? What activities or events do they offer?

Sorry SSS& Lisa just a private Pagan joke from a RC to a Wiccan friend started in another Religious Thread about favorite cousine. Yes that is the goal. The problem is that because the Earth-Based Religions don't necessarily have a regular gathering place ie. temple, that can act as a CO, it makes it very hard to come up with the 25 CO's nationally that National Council has mandated for a religion to offer up a Nationally sanctioned Religious Award. Dan. I was thinking,(DANGER! DANGER!) Native Americans being truly Earth-Based, granted a lot of converts, with Tribal Gov's acting as CO's and their religious spirituality recognized by Big Brother, I wonder if there is enough influence among the Shamans to circumvent the "RULE OF 25"? Has the CoG, being Earth-Based ever had any dealings with the NA's? I feel that the CoG requirements wouldn't be to far fetch, with a few minor changes as allowed per the document, and would fit well with the NA Spirituality. If the Covenant's can't pull together 25 CO's, could there be opportunity to form relations with Tribal Organizations that can or do function as CO's to promote the award? Maybe this is way off the wall, but leave no stone unturned (unless your a LNT fanatic. I can joke, I'm a trainer).(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Welcome ASM 162.

DanK, "A MODEST PROPOSAL" written by Swift back in the 1700's somewhere. Quite satirical for his times. It's one of my 20y/o's favorites. did you get my PM?

When his email came out to everyone, I emailed the COR, CC, SM, one very involved Comm. Mem., and the DE only, requested that the Troop not commit because of a possible conflict with policy and asked DE for her take on it. Of course I already knew of the problem, but felt it would be better being clarified by her. A little COR history. Don't call the house phone. Don't use email because I rarely check it (he did this time). Call the cell. We work different shifts so most correspondence goes out in eamil. Today I was approached by the COR at a ECOH. He was a little upset about contacting Council. He stated he knew it was against policy and didn't need clarification from Council. I stood there in disbelieve that he would send out his email phrased the way it was, putting the Troop on the spot, instead of asking if there were any families who on their own time, totally outside of scouting, willing to help the candidate with the campaign. I let it drop for now, an ECOH not being the appropriate place to get into this type of discussion. No, the candidate and the Troop have no current ties. I'm not sure about the Pack though. I've offered to place a sign in the yard because he is an excellent candidate.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

SN, sorry. I didn't mean to come across condemning all GSUSA Councils or Troops. I didn't really make my self clear in the last post. When I contacted the Council, I asked if the Council would be willing to think of sittind down to discuss a large joint conservation project involving both scouting entities. For them to toss it down to a troop level was improper knowing that I was looking for several area troops to be involved if not the whole Council. As for the Comm. Memb. He offer to help with actual outdoor camping and cooking over fires particularly with Dutch Ovens. If it wasn't indoors and on a stove or oven, they weren't interested. Maby if GSUSA was structure more like BSA, had CO's that allowed use of facilities, then they wouldn't have to play the "WAITING LIST" game because they would possibly have facilities large enough to accomodate the extra girls trying to get in. Why don't they try a joint Venturing program? I see a lot of mothers involved in BSA because they love the outdoors and I mean real camping in tents not lodges. I think that a lot of these moms would be more then willing to be involved as female advisors to such a Venturing group.

DanK, thanks for links. I agree with Trevorum. They are excellent and more in-tune with Scouting's outdoor ethics. Quite an interesting read. "RULES OF 25". The far right can't hold inquisitions anymore, so now they purposefully block their foes with political BS (doesn't stand for Boy Scout). Let the majorities be represented at the table, and feel important if they must, but don't prevent the progress of the minority. Allow all religions to present their Religious Awards to their scouts, no exceptions. CoG requirements look fine. Maybe if more religions held such esteem for the Earth as yours does, maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today. Different religions, different prophets. All aim for the same results, except the radicals. I think the camporee/jamboree idea is good and would be beneficial toward tolerance. DanK, What's your take on "A MODEST PROPOSAL"? . And you never got back to me on "Marinated or Barbecued".

HERE!! HERE!!

Need some help here people. Our new SM received an email from our COR. The COR was asked by a scouting parent, who is running for judge in the upcoming election, if any of the scouts needed service hours for a project, and asked if the scouts would pass out fliers door to door. I emeiled back to not commit because there are specific rules that prohibit involvement unless the fliers are generic. ie: "GET OUT AND VOTE" or list all candidates and parties. How would you go about informing this candidate, who has done a lot fot the Pack and Troop, that the Scouts can not help?

acco, To your question of being mean, see if this works. I know several adult leaders, who for special occassions, wear their Eagle Medal. In the distant past I read a posting in another discussion group where one of the leaders stated that nowhere in BSA policies has he ever seen, where an adult leader is prohibited from wearing their Eagle Medal. OGE, correct me if I'm wrong.

Kim, Not trying to down GCUSA, but on a few occasions I've contacted the area Council about joint projects, only to be told, " I/We can't help you. Here is the number for the Leader in your area. Give her a call." The call is placed, a message left (on sevearal occassions) with no replies. Maybe it is a regional thing, but it appears that they want nothing to do with the BSA. The only time I've have seen cooperation in our area is involving the Diocese Council on Catholic Scouting. The Diocese covers 3 BSA Councils and I'm not sure how many GSBSA Councils. WE have only 2 GSUSA Leaders, both from the same city, that sit on the Diocese council. I have a CM in our BSA Troop that has offered his services and outdoor expertise only to be turned away. As for meeting at the Leaders home, and not having enough room, Does GSUSA persue CO's like BSA? Can a CO provide a meeting place for the GSUSA Troop? What are GSUSA's Safe Scouting Policies on leaders to girls ratios? For the girls interested in outdoor activities, why can't GSUSA form strictly outdoor oriented Troops to accommedate these girls and meet their needs. Our Council's new Field Director at her job in her previous Council, to the chagrin of the area's GSUSA Council converted several GSUSA Troops to Venture Crews because the GSUSA Council was not fulfilling the needs of the girls. Why can't the GSUSA and the BSA work on this venture together for the betterment of all youth male and female instead of running around scared because "We have to except females?" or " They are stealing our girls to their programs!!!" No girl should have to wait until she is 14 because the leaders dont do tents, or are scared of the creepy crawlies. Kim, I'll give you and the GSUSA one thing. It seems when there is a big event, ie: The National Catholic Youth Convention (in Colunbus, Oh. this Nov.) that the GSUSA seems to be a lot farther ahead on getting involved and getting information and publicitiy out to the public then the BSA. I've been following NCYC's website since Sept. '06. The GSUSA has been there since the start. Just last Wednseday night at the Diocese of Youngstown's Coucnil on cath. Scouting, the Nat'l Coucnil on Cath. Scoutings Publication FINALLY had an article about the BSA trying to be involved (that is outside of the Columbus are Council, who have had a few minor mentions). My hat is off to you.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Lisabob, I like the BOR idea as long as the older scouts are level headed and mature. There are a few I wouldn't allow to sit on the BOR because of being to cliquish and probably not giving a true overall picture of the BORee. I agree with the age changes. Bring the Rovers south of the border. Would the over 14's still be allowed to work toward Eagle? Tighten up the requirements. For scouts, prove you can do it more then once or twice. AS for leaders, maybe this is unrealistic, but for SM and Venture Advisors, function in an ASM and ASST. ADV. postion first, so they realize what they are getting themselves into and understand the rules and regulations first. Beavah, Had a hard time reading you past, no yah's and other Beavah idioms. I would like to see a stronger push on the outdoor skill and conservation like we had in the 60's and early 70's. I was elated to see National bring back Botany, even though it was added as assitional requirements for Plant Science. At least it's not buried forever. What ever happened to Tracking, Stalking and to SOAR and other conservation related projects at both the Pack and Troop level? I see such apathy from the scouts when it comes to conservation related issues and projects, and from a lot of leaders for that matter.

Steve, thank you. I really enjoyed this. Where is this camp at? Eric.

DanK, 500mg Depakote BID, 450 Lithium BID, 200 Seroquel QID and PRN and he's still going strong. Sleeps good at night, but not tired during the day. That's enough to put half the hospital to sleep. Go figure. One day I accidentally got a hold of one of the 200 Seroquels instead of a Tylenol by accident. That was real interesting. slept like a baby for 18 hours. Probably the best sleep I've gotten in years. The wifey drug me in for Dan's 4 PM appointment. Took the pill around 11AM. The doc thought it was hilarious.

DanKroh, He can't handle any of them. The main three Ritalin, Adderil and Concerta are front end drugs. They cause an increased production of the lacking neural transmitter chemical at the front end to flood the receptors at the back end. Strattera is not a stimulant but a blocking agent at the back end to direct the the lacking chemical to the right receptors. Help me out here Dan. The front end is like a soccer or hockey match with a player in a penaltybox. The other team has an increased number of players whose goal is to get to one receptor and the blitz is on. The backend would be the like a football kickoff team. The numbers are the same but the receiving team is trying to direct the defense where they want them, to give the ball carrier a chance at getting to his goal or receptor, the endzone. Hope the analogy helps. Yelruh, good point on med changes. DanK. Liver profiles and platelets for Depakote, TSH levels for HypoT caused from Lithium, (he's on Synthroid)and of course the Lithium levels.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Here at the forum resides Old Grey Whose advice you shouldn't say ney He's a thoughtful and wise gent Whose limmericks are quite eloquent I think unitl death he plans to stay