KoreaScouter

We mailed our absentees from Hawaii to Michigan a couple of weeks ago. Since we're not Hawaii residents, I watch the local/state contests with some amusement. For example, I was surprised to learn that there's a clause in Hawaii's state Constitution regarding ballot propositions (there are 4 this year, including a "Megan's Law") that states if you don't check either "yes" or "no" on a ballot proposition, they count it as a "no", not as an "abstain". Considering the number of people who gloss over the propositions because they're not informed on them, it would seem impossible to get any of these things passed here with all the unintended "no" votes coming in. Go figure.

KS

Eamonn;

Trust your instincts and your experience. If there's something, even intangible, about this outing that moved you enough to begin a thread, it must be significant.

Your son is 16. He may be near fully grown physically, but he's still a teenage boy, with all the hormonal surges, judgment issues, adolescent "immortality", and so on. This creates a decision-making vacuum that dads have to fill.

It may seem draconian, but I will "de-select" little KS's friends for him if it's warranted and he seems un-inclined to do it on his own. I will filter his activities if one looks like it'll be trouble. I have parental filters set on the computer, look closely at what he's reading, prohibit some TV shows and some channels altogether, and set limits on video game play. Don't get me wrong, I don't run a monastery -- he plays sports, hangs out with his buds, has sleepovers, etc. I just remember my teenage years and how one bad influence or one mistake could have had a big impact on how I turned out. I know that he sometimes thinks I'm too strict, or too cautious. That's fine, I have a thick skin. And if I'm going to err, it'll be on the side of caution. At the end of the day, he knows I make my parenting decisions out of love and concern for him, and we continue to have a very strong relationship.

Once he's grown and on his own, the decisions are his. Until then, I have the final veto. It's not a "my way or the highway" thing; we freely communicate, and I can always back up my decisions with real life examples, in some cases from our own family. And, I always offer alternatives: different activities, different people, different places, different plans. When he was little, I was raising a boy; now, I'm developing a man.

To answer your question, I'd refuse based on what you told us, but give him the reason. He's probably old enough to share your opinions and insights with him. Big teaching moment opportunity here.

Good Luck...

KS

In addition to Mich632's and BW's references, I have on my bookshelf (2 feet from me right now):

- BSA Tours and Expeditions (great for Venture-age outing planning)

- Campmor Catalog

- REI catalog

- Scouter magazines

- Backpacker magazines

- "Hiker's Guide to Oahu"

- Knots and how to tie them

- OA Handbook

- Fieldbook for Australian Scouting

I've seen something like a checklist, but it's been a few years and I didn't save it. The main reason is because for me, it was common sense stuff. In my opinion, your neighbor, if he's also your friend, doesn't need a paper guideline sheet -- he has something better. That is, a human guide, in you. You can almost certainly give better advice on the "intangibles" than any piece of p

A good UC is worth their weight in donuts. A bad one's just a pain in the neck if they show up, a non-factor if they don't. I've had two good ones. I think I have one now (on paper) but I've never met him. As long as our recharter package doesn't disappear, it's not an issue for me.

KS

Some people will steal from anyone; if there's larceny in your heart, scruples are the first thing to go. If you think you're immune because you're a youth organization, you're naive.

Two signatures on a check helps a lot, especially if the committee chairman is one of them. An annual audit is a good external control, too. They need not be expensive, either. Many accountants will do it gratis for a Scout unit...check around.

I was in a unit whose monthly treasurer's report was a 5-second recitation of what the balance in the checkbook was -- no budget, no trends, no line expenditures, nothing. That was an alarm bell for me, so when I balked at unit fund-raisers until I saw some financials that said we needed them, the CC asked the treasurer for a little more effort, and the treasurer quit. It all worked out in the end, but you can't go wrong if you ask the treasurer to do what the Troop Committee Guidebook says they should do.

KS

I'm with Bob White on this. Nobody can "buy their way in" to the OA. If the Lodge/Chapter Election Teams are doing their jobs (ours do a very good one here), the Scouts on election night know exactly who deserves to be elected and who doesn't, and it's inspiring to see them do the right thing. Our last two elections, we've had one elected out of 7-8 eligible.

Also, I make a cut as well. I'd have more than 7-8 eligible, but I line through some with the election team beforehand. Subjective? Absolutely, but based on personal observations and feedback they give me for the preceding months. Let's not equate rank advancement requirements with OA eligibility/"deservedness". I don't agree that what gets you to First Class should also be good enough to deem you "deserving" of OA election. It's an honor society; the bar ought to be higher.

In short, if the wrong lads are getting elected, the blame is in the mirror.

Aside from principle, I don't see what the issue is here. We can gnash our teeth all day about a public school allowing the G/L/T Student Club to meet for free in school facilities while BSA is denied that opportunity, for example. But, ultimately, a CO is required to provide a place to meet. Unless the school is the CO and they're not letting a unit meet there, this seems to be a tempest in a teapot...

KS

Two things:

1). When I was a Cubmaster, I was a little heavy-handed about ADLs. At recruiting night, we passed out adult applications along with the youth forms, and essentially told the parents that we needed two registered DLs or it was no-go. Rationale: Nobody's getting paid to do this as a full-time job; DLs have families, jobs, other responsibilities; DLs take vacations (and boy are they entitled to); DLs get sick; DLs cars are not immune to breakdown; etc. So, to maintain continuity and ensure we don't have last-minute meeting/activity cancellations, we need backup quarterbacks. To their credit, the parents understood and we had all the help we needed. You may have luck with the same approach.

2). Also, when I was a Cubmaster, I didn't have Den Chiefs from the Troop we fed into, so I never appreciated what a "force multiplier" they can be. Now, as an SM, we provide four Den Chiefs to two Packs in the district -- win/win for everybody. Now, a Den Chief won't fix any YP issues, since they're youths, too, but they're a tremendous asset for a DL who needs help. If you don't have Den Chiefs, I suggest you start making noise to the Cubmaster.

KS

There's a million worksheets out there. One place to check is at the National Jamboree page on the National Web Site. There's a standard camp site layout and roster work sheets, too. Many Troop web sites have worksheets and checklists they developed themselves -- I've sometimes copied and adapted them for my use.

For a source document, I'd make sure your patrol leaders have copies of the PL Handbook. Good info on outing planning. The new Guidebook is good too, but big/heavy and a little pricey for every Scout to have one.

There are also several places on the web that describe a campout called "BSA 101" strictly for New Scout Patrols, to get them past the basic skills. I've also used that, adapted for our use.

Good luck,

KS

I use this analogy to explain the "mystery" of the OA, and the lack of specifics concerning Wood Badge training before the fact:

If you were waiting in line to see a new movie that you were really looking forward to, a suspense-filled epic with a cliffhanger and a surprise ending, would you want someone coming out of the previous showing stopping at the line and telling you how the movie ended? Of course not, it would ruin the experience for you.

Same reason parts of OA and Wood Badge knowledge are withheld until the right times, as you're experiencing them. Looking back on both, I can say with certainty that if I found a "kiss-and-tell" internet site that gave everything away, I wouldn't have enjoyed or gained from either experience as much as I did.

My son received his Brotherhood the same weekend I completed my Ordeal. I didn't see his ceremony, naturally, but he participated in mine. He hasn't told me what he went through, and I haven't asked. When you think about it, isn't that another method of character development? Don't we expect adults to be discreet at times...for people with security clearances to be able to keep their mouths shut, and so on? I'd wager these lads will be better at it than those without the imperative to do so as teenagers.

BTW, the "parents may watch" clause should come as no surprise to any mom or dad who read the "Information for Parents" section on the Boy Scout Application. It says right there that parents are welcome at any activity.

KS

I enjoy serving as SM (most of the time), but I don't have a white-knuckled death grip on the job, either. I realize fully that I serve at the pleasure of the CO & committee. If they told me today they wanted to give the job to someone else, I'd gracefully step aside. I know that all my ASMs have disagreed with something I've said or done, at one time or another -- that's just human nature. But I have two things in my favor. One, I was asked and agreed to do the job. Two, I operate according to the book, so I never have to defend myself.

I won't get involved in eye-poking contests or "urinary olympics" with other volunteers, either. This is supposed to be fun. I can't fill in all the gaps for people who won't get trained, have some ulterior motives, or are mailing it in. Instead of trying to run through them, I just run around them.

The great thing about this is that it's self-cleansing. As others have mentioned, the committee/CO can settle this at recharter time by declining to re-register a pot-stirrer. Hey, isn't recharter next month?

KS

The link didn't work, so I went straight to the Daily Press' web site and navigated from there.

So it's true. This hits close to home, since our first resident camp with little KS was at Chick. The lake was fabulous, and the fire bowl with the lake and the woods on the other side in the background is just what you picture a Scout camp should look like. We're going to miss it; I hope the plans for the new one go well.

We have several sets of brothers in the Troop. One set wanted to be together; they are. One other doesn't; they aren't. The others don't care one way or the other, so their sibling status isn't a factor when SPL makes patrol assignments.

Isn't it natural for a just-crossed-over Scout to lean on his older brother for help, advice, and top-cover? The same older brother who showed him how to tie his shoes, ride a bike, and appreciate comic books? His family had him for 10 1/2 years before we did; you can't erase that with a patrol assignment. In my experience, the young "clingy" Scouts outgrow that in their first year, and get more independent. My advice is to let it happen naturally.

I appreciate parents' input regarding their boys; they know them better than I do. I find that they, in turn, appreciate my input on program delivery; I know it better than they do.

One hand washes the other, and both hands wash the face...

KS

Has anyone successfully registered with the GTFA web site and put any of your service projects in? I'm completely flummoxed that something that should be so simple could be so complicated.

The registration process, necessary to enter projects, requires filling in information similar to buying something online. One of the things they ask for is a "unit ID". Not unit number, that's the next field. I had no idea what my unit ID was, so I called the council service center. They gave me a 9-digit number that doesn't contain my council or unit number anywhere in it. Okay, whatever. So I poke this number into the web site, and it doesn't recognize it. Council was already closed by that time, so I gotta try them back again today.

I'm all for tallying the efforts we're putting in with our projects, but my fun meter's almost pegged on this one...

KS

I bought little KS a Garmin E-Trex for his birthday a couple years back. The thing's great; light, easy to use, long battery life. Base E-Trex doesn't have mapping capability, but where we were living at the time, Garmin didn't offer maps for anyway. Unintended consequence: without mapping capability in your GPS, you're forced to carry maps with you, and by extension, be able to use them. If I bought another one now, I'd probably get another Garmin with mapping capability. But, I still wouldn't leave my paper maps at home. Any machine can break, with or without extra batteries.

KS

The threatened return to the military draft is getting a lot of airplay, in my opinion from scaremongers. First, the bill was introduced by two Dems, Sen Hollings and Rep Rangel. It didn't make it very far, but still succeeded in stirring the pot. Here's why I don't think it'll fly -- all math; tell me if you think I'm wrong.

-Census Bureau estimates the 2003 US population is 290,809,000.

-Of that population, approximately 10,700,000 are males between 20-24 years old (draft-age population?).

-Take out those already in the military (5%), those in jail (2%), those disqualified (23%), those not high school graduates (41%), and those in college (15%), and you have about 14% of that 10,700,000, or about 1,500,000 prime draft candidates (US Army recruiting figures)

-Active-duty military is about 1,500,000.

-Each year, about 3% of first-termers re-enlist, and 20% are discharged, for a net loss of 17%, or about 255,000 people.

Think of this as a pipe through which people flow, rather than water. The pipe is only so big (255,000), and the people flow through only so fast (service periods).

So, we get to the main question. How do we get from 1,500,000 to 255,000? And, if you eliminate deferments for college students and high school dropouts, and consider some of the DQs as now qualified, the problem gets bigger. And oh by the way, my numbers are all for males only. Add women into the mix, and the problem gets bigger yet.

The answer? There are several that I can think of, and they all have unintended consequences. The first is to shorten service periods to whatever length of time will accomodate all 255,000 (push 'em through the pipe faster). Unworkable, in my opinion (and in my experience; when I lived in the Netherlands, they scrapped conscription after the service period had dropped to just 14 months and the military training establishment cried "uncle" because they couldn't sustain readiness with so short a service window). You can increase the size of the military (make the pipe bigger), and while you can pay conscripts less than volunteers, they still have to fed, housed, clothed, and equipped the same as volunteers -- there go your savings. Or, you can come up with an elaborate set of deferments that whittles that 1,500,000 down to 255,000. But, what will those deferments be, and how will they pass a "fairness meter"? And, won't we end up right where people like Rep Rangle say we are right now --that the burden of service is not proportionately shared? The last option I've heard is "alternative service" to take up the numbers slack (build a second pipe). But if it's something one could opt for, we again end up where we are right now.

My math here isn't figured to the 5th decimal place; it's back-of-the-envelope stuff. And it doesn't take the reserve component into account. My point is to make the case that a little critical thinking and 6th grade math can go a long ways toward putting one at ease.

I understand a lot of college students are really worried about this draft business. I'd tell them two things. One, don't worry, based on the numbers. Two, there's worse things than serving your country, especially right now. It's not a penance, it's a privilege...

KS

I don't think we ban anything outright, that isn't already prohibited by the GTSS or public law.

I agree that long lists can turn everyone involved into "barracks lawyers" -- "...it wasn't on the list, so why can't I bring it?...". I'd rather have them use their judgment, and exercise restraint on when/how they use what they bring. Many of my lads bring cards, little gizmos, or small board games, which they use during free time. If they've got their faces buried in their Game Boys during the flag ceremony, however, we now have a problem. Doesn't happen often, and they generally police themselves.

We do occasionally conduct pack inspections. For TF, there is the requirement to appear before your leader, properly equipped, etc. Plus, for backpackers, we want to make sure the younger lads are bringing the right gear and perhaps more importantly, not bringing the wrong gear or packing incorrectly. We had a first year Scout on our last backpacker pull a mallet out of his pack to drive his tent stakes in. I don't know how we missed it, but we did get a chuckle out of it, considering all the large rocks out there that served the same purpose...

KS

(From Narita Airport in Tokyo)

Bob's spot-on as usual. Training them and using the tools they were taught is the best recipe, in the long run. And, that's what we're supposed to be in this for. -- the long run, not the quick fix. It's also your best fallback when you're discussing Scout Spirit at SM Conference time. How can the lads be accountable if the adults really run things?

KS

I wasn't sure where this should go, so I stuck it in "working with kids".

So I'm back in Korea for a month, and these last few days are at the air base where I used to live. I'm driving back to my room on Wednesday night, and as I glanced at the time, I remembered that my old Troop met on Wednesdays, and they had about 15 minutes of meeting left. I was curious as to how they were doing, wondered if any of the lads were still there, and flipped on my turn signal to climb the hill up to the Scout hut. I don't know what made me think of them at that moment, but it was a narrow driveway, and there was no turning back.

There were lights on in the hut, so I made my way down the sidewalk, opened the door, and walked inside. I immediately saw one of the boys I saw cross over from Cubs, now wearing an SPL patch. And another, who was about 5-foot-nothing before, and now looked me level in the eye. After their initial shock, I told them why I was back, and for how long. Their SM was way more happy to meet me than I thought he should have been, then he told me why.

They had a BOR scheduled for that night, but didn't have enough adults on hand who could do it. If they couldn't muster 3 people, several Scouts would have to wait as many months for the next Court of Honor. He and their committee chair asked me if I would sit in. Of course, I agreed, and got to meet three wonderful young men who more than deserve the rank advancement they'll receive at their Court of Honor next week.

Afterward, the SM told me that just minutes before I walked in, he silently prayed that somebody would show up who could help them conduct their BOR. I don't know that I've ever been the answer to somebody's prayer, but one thing's for sure: that little voice is usually right, and I'm going to keep listening to it.

It'll sure be nice to go home next week...

KS

As I've mentioned in at least one other post, I'm on an (unpleasant) month-long deployment to Korea. At one of our locations, we fell in on another deployment of F-15 fighters and about 500 people who are flying, launching, maintaining, securing, and supporting them. F-15s are nicknamed "Eagles", and are unmatched in combat.

In their instructions to their people regarding "community standards", the leadership referred all their airmen, in writing, to "Eagle Words of Wisdom" -- ostensibly how eagles behave in the wild, and meant as an example for us. I wanted to share them with you because I thought they were applicable to our Eagles as well...

"Respect the elders,

Teach the young,

Play when you can,

Hunt when you must,

Rest in between,

Share your affections,

Voice your feelings,

Leave your mark,

Be ready, be lethal,

and may God have mercy

on the Eagle's prey."

Okay, the last two lines may be a little over the top for a Scout, but they're very appropriate for F-15 crews...

KS

SR540Beaver;

I'll concede your point on perceived "geekiness" (is that a word?), but one thing that both sports teams and Scout troops have in common is that nobody's forced to participate in either. Presumably, everyone's there because they want to be. If the uniform (or the practices, or the early-morning bus show times, or the cost, or whatever) were a factor, they could walk at will.

Accuse me of being mercenary, but I've recommended to families in the past, and will do so again, if they have fundamental problems with any of our methods (uniform included), they should look around for another youth program that more closely matches their priorities and values. Personally, I'll listen to uniform complaints for the same amount of time I'll listen to mouthpiece complaints on the football field -- about two seconds. Granted, one's required and the other isn't. That said, nobody's an indentured servant in either setting.

I can't force my lads to wear a uniform, but the older ones all know what I expect, and they know that "one hand washes the other, and both hands wash the face"...

KS

The unit leader's "last say" is when he designates a counselor for the Scout(s) who want to earn that MB. Once that's done, the unit leader has no say regarding whether or not the Scout has completed the requirements, or how the counselor interprets the requirements -- that's between the Scout and the counselor. You should know ahead of time how the counselor approaches his job, and how he's likely to deal with the Scouts he comes in contact with.

KS

The requirement says "30 days" not "30 exercise sessions". Likewise, it says "show improvement" not "perform one more repetition of each exercise than you did before".

What's the intent of the requirement? That the lads internalize a lifelong appreciation for a healthy lifestyle? I think so, but if we don't hook 'em at TF, we have another chance at the Personal Fitness MB.

Let's put this in perspective. For the Eagle-required Personal Fitness MB, a 12-week exercise program is required. If a Scout designs a program that includes 3 workouts per week, that's 36 workouts...for an Eagle-required MB. Should TF require 30 workouts?

In my opinion, it's worded somewhat vaguely on purpose, so that unit leaders can apply their judgment to those situations that warrant it.

That certainly doesn't excuse sleazy behavior by an adult leader/parent.

KS

Everything Acco40 said is correct in my experience. The Planned Parenthood affiliation is through provision of materials local GS councils can use for program delivery, if they want. It's not a strong arm from the councils to the individual units, but there nonetheless. Also, if you're involved in BSA, you're going to find the GS service units less tethered or "accountable" to the councils, and there are no Districts as we know them with full-time professional Scouters. Also, the GS requirement to zero out troop accounts each spring makes planning, program delivery, and consistency nearly impossible. You're broke until cookie money comes in, then you have 2 months to spend it all -- amazing, then do it all over again in the fall.

If you start a GS unit, the program will reflect your attitudes and values, not Planned Parenthood's. If you don't want those materials at your meetings, they won't be there.

KS