johnmbowen

Our Troop will be rafting on the Snake south of Jackson over Memorial Day weekend, and we could take a few along. We run our own boats so there is no charge since we don't use an outfitter, but you have to help work. If you are interested, please reply.

HI MK9750 Well, Ohio is pretty far from WY, but if you can't find the WFA course there we would be glad to have you, and I would suggest a backpack trip or something while you are in WY, if you have the time. One suggestion is that I have found that WFA (about 16 hours) and the much longer WFR courses (up to 110 hours long and worth it)are sometimes found around Universities that have outdoor programs. Ok St U offers some, and I remember seeing on in VT I think while looking on the web. ARC vs BSA My experience with not only ARC but many other organizations have this same p

The best ARC courses for being in the outdoors on Scout type outings: ie, 0-4 miles from the car for a bit more than a day would be the "When help is delayed", or "Wilderness First Aid." For those who go on multiday backpacks, multiday river rafting (on your own...since the professsional guides are required to have these courses), or other trips when an accident would mean anywhere from several hours to several days away from EMS, then Wilderness First Responder is the course to take. Both WFA and WFR include "Scenarios" where the students practice on simulated events. WFA (and especi

No matter the cool memories, what counts is the ability of a boy to help when the time comes. Nothing is more killing to the soul than to be found wanting when an emergency occurs and when you could have done something...and you didn't know how. TEACH!

Jeff, The real deal is to have something generalized enough for most small things, or tailored for a particular trip...and carry it around. The second thing is to take some Red Cross courses, the best one being Wilderness First Aid, (or if you have time, Wilderness First Responder). The knowledge is what will stand you in better stead than a complete kit. JB

HA! We got lucky and snagged a private rafting permit on the San Juan River for a 6 day 87 mile raft trip in July. We will also do a short shake down to get the Scouts used to running their boats on the Snake. Spring Break we go climbing in Moab. JB

Check www.hpoiadventure.com a group in the North Rockies that has Scout oriented events. The whitewater in this area will be low this year, but climbing is good. JB I also have extensive experience in these kinds of outings if you would like to contact me privately.

ALSO Check Campmor: www.campmor.com and Sierra Trading Post www.sierratradingpost.com (be sure to tell these guys you are Scouts) JB

For Whitewater This Year: Go East! The Rocky Mountains are likely going to experience the 4th year of a drought. Check this webpage for water levels in all states: http://water.usgs.gov/realtime.html It looks like none of the rivers in The Rockies are going to be very good this year, including the Arkansas, Colorado etc. On a normal year, these provide lots of fun, and have plenty of outfitters on them. One Scout oriented outfit that actually trains Scouts to run their own boats is High Plains Outdoors, www.hpoiadventure.com Idaho seems to be having a fairly

What Luck! We got a private permit on the San Juan River, UT for a 87 mile raft trip in June! This will end up as our Troop's big trip for the summer. For Spring Break, we go to climb and mountain bike in Moab. ALSO found a bit on Cumberland Lake, KY and Table Rock Lake MO...is that what you need? Houseboating: Pretty Pricy! Have you though of a canoe trip on the Buffalo R instead? LAKE CUMBERLAND, KENTUCKY Bluegrass meets blue water at this lake near the Tennessee border. Dock at Lake Cumberland State Park or near General Burnside Island State Park to enj

Hi Laura I don't know what to do with the older boys who are obvious cases for 'natural selection' (meaning that they will eventually get cold enough not to reproduce themselves...a double meaning that they will either not go when its cold, or they will freeze themselves). It is significant that the younger ones listen. A possibility that I have often used is to bring in the "outside expert" to do the lecture, and even invite on a really cold trip. Kids who might not listen to you, may listen to them. Note your son! Find someone who is a backpacker (or better an XC skiier who

Hi Hopps_Scout KS is absolutly right. Cots are definitely colder as per his explanation. A compounding and perhaps less understood reason for cold nights is that the bottom of the sleeping bag is crushed flat by your body and therefore provides no insulation. [insulation is provided by the dead air space that the sleeping bag "stuffing" provides by making the sleeping bag 'thick' (called 'loft' by the sleeping bag makers).] When you sleep on a cot, or on the ground for that matter, the bottom of the sleeping bag provides little insulation, necessitating the sleeping pad. KS

For LauraT7: Remember that one thing that you have to deal with in the winter for camping when setting up your bedding is sweat. The more cotton that you include in your sleep system, the wetter it will get. While a nice cotton sheet is fine, feels good, and is comfortable, its use for several days if it is not thoroughly dried out will freeze you out. I like to use all fast dry components in my sleep systems, and to keep them very simple (its lighter to carry). I am always sure to spread out my sleeping bag in the sun (if available) each morning so as to try to get rid of as much moistur

KoreaScouter et al. I still agree with ASM1 and the other antis. And for Mr. Mori's purulent interest, I have nothing to hide (unlike Rev. Baker), as I have passed 3 years of intrusive child abuse background checks in the adoption of my son. And that is just what they are. And who will pay for these, mine were $25 each! Are you going to make the volunteers pay? My big and vehement objection is that perhaps a high adventure, or other teacher/volunteer should be in a different catagory in this case. If not, Scouting will sink further into an indoor activity, or perhaps becom

Well, this is just fine. My personal and considered opinion is that this is just another CYA decision by the national organization. Where the responsibility should lie is with the people in the trench. The problem is "high adventure." The most obvious far flung ramification of this is that it will make it much more difficult to convince people who are expert in some outdoor activity to become involved in helping out a Scout Troop. Suppose you find a likely person who is a very good climber, or rafter who normally would avoid getting involved with helping to teach and

Laura 77 Here are the addresses of several grottos in Illinois. Sorry, my geog is not good enough to know which is nearest you. Following are several NSS (National Speological Soc.) clubs (Called Grottos). They will know where the caves are, and are the groups of experts that you are going to be interested in. I suspect that the cave you went to is what cavers call a "sacrifice cave" meaning that this cave is known to the public, well climbed through and beyond the point of repair. These are what we start our guys in, and our guys have to get several practice runs in before get

Well, its been nearly a month since the last message, but we also do caving, and we include vertical caving. All of the above is correct. Caving is a very high adventure activity. It is also a completely self supported activity. If you get into a position where you need rescue...you must do it yourself. Outside of high altitude climbing or Class III+ rafting on remote rivers done by yourself, this is as good as it gets. Yes, they need all the med forms, but even more importantly, the leaders, as well as the Scouts need a great deal of training in the activity itself. Most dont

REd Feather's mention of pads is very important. Remember that as you lie on your sleeping bag, blankets or no, that part is compressed to nothing. It is the 'dead air' held still by the insulation, down or otherwise, that is the insulator in sleeping bags. For those sleeping on snow, an inflatable pad like a thermorest is very nice (full length) BACKED UP by a closed cell pad that won't deflate if punctured. We always bring a tarp to be sure that the snow doesn't melt to water and seep up through the bag, even when sleeping in tents. Snow caves for those of you who have snow are ve

Eisley has it correct concerning good judgement and training, especially with the adult leaders. In addition, I would like to include outdoor experience in that catagory. Too many BSA groups from Venture on down have gone on trips way above their experience level (or as we ought to put it, "not prepaired"). Too few adult leaders, and even fewer youth leaders even have adequate first aid experiences and training, including WFA, WFR, ie more than CPR (and remember "CPR is done to keep a dead body viable...and hope EMS gets there soon). I actually know of no easy to access BSA p

Well, I just tried to reply, but who knows what happened! Well, again... For those headed to the Rockies area here are a few good ones that can do multiday trips. For Mid Colorado on the Arkansas River (which is very popular, but relatively crowded) is Timberwolf Rafting and the owner often leads the trips. For N. Colorado, there is High Plains that does the Upper Colorado River and the North Platte River (Class IV) and preports to cater to Scouts including offering training. For the Idaho Area and getting onto two of the really great rivers of the West, the Main Salmon

Well, we're thinking of XC skiing on 10th mountain for a luxury tour (ie. huts), ice climbing, a winter 14er (hikeup only), and maybe sea kayaking on Lake Powell. For the summer we will try to pull a permit on the Green, or maybe the Yampa (!). jb

I fully aggree about being prepaired and the comment about being much more aware after taking and repeating the courses is absolutely correct. In fact, I think that this is the key. If you think ahead...just as mentioned...well, you don't get into the problems that might escalate into an emergency. Though I learn about planning ahead by myself, and FA via Red Cross, I havn't heard of any training that takes this into consideration. JB

Well, whatever the type, kayaking is lots of fun from flat water to white water, and is frankly easier to teach and do than canoeing. We have flatwater kayaks with watertight compartments, and the kayaks can utilize spray skirts (which can be hand made). One way to see if you like these boats and this type of outing is to find an outfitter that rents them. For instance I have thought about kayaking on Lake Powell, UT, and the website there states that you can rent the boats...why not try it!!

Well, this is a big question. How much first aid should be necessary to have along on a Scout Trip. Some Troops keep a nurse or physician along. Some adult members have first aid (usually Emergency Response) and others are not satisfied with this and do more (or do outdoor trips requiring) such as EMT, Wilderness First Responder, or Wilderness First Aid. Some Scouters have none (which I personally think as scairy, as I had to suffer through a (non-scout) outdoor emergency). The Scout First Aid merit badge is meant to be an introduction to first aid, not a resource, in my opinion

I agree with denver4und completely. However, as pointed out to me previously, what Scouts wear in the field is pretty much up to the Troop. The rub comes (or came) if you wanted to submit a story to Boy's Life, or Scouter Magazine, where the rule was that all Scouts had to be in uniform if you wanted them in a picture. This may be changing. My Troop is in Boy's Life for this Oct. (the mountaineering article), but no uniforms are visible (!), and this was the issue that I had. Safety vs. Style. If a Troop goes into the outdoors away from cars or lodges (ie away from a Scou