johnmbowen

Hi guys, In reply to OGE's original post, which I agree with, here is a solution that our Troop has done...(may have said this before). The rules state that for non-formal wear such as on outings where the uniform shirt, pants, etc. are really a safety issue (especially for high adventure, but not so much for a Scout camp) you can do a Troop shirt. We got poly zip t-neck shirts from Sierra Trading Post (tell them you are a Scout unit!! The owners are Scout supporters) and had the Troop number embroidered on the collar. The kids like these and they are actually useful in the outdoors as th

Hi guys, In reply to OGE's original post, which I agree with, here is a solution that our Troop has done...(may have said this before). The rules state that for non-formal wear such as on outings where the uniform shirt, pants, etc. are really a safety issue (especially for high adventure, but not so much for a Scout camp) you can do a Troop shirt. We got poly zip t-neck shirts from Sierra Trading Post (tell them you are a Scout unit!! The owners are Scout supporters) and had the Troop number embroidered on the collar. The kids like these and they are actually useful in the outdoors as th

Hi guys, In reply to OGE's original post, which I agree with, here is a solution that our Troop has done...(may have said this before). The rules state that for non-formal wear such as on outings where the uniform shirt, pants, etc. are really a safety issue (especially for high adventure, but not so much for a Scout camp) you can do a Troop shirt. We got poly zip t-neck shirts from Sierra Trading Post (tell them you are a Scout unit!! The owners are Scout supporters) and had the Troop number embroidered on the collar. The kids like these and they are actually useful in the outdoors as th

Well, this is the crux of the problem with any Scout organization, the lack of living up to the promise of what the kids see in the handbooks, and on the ads on TV. The problem is not with the fact that these kids cannot be trained to do just aobut any kind of outdoor activity, it is in the local parents and masters who do. I have long trained my BSA Troop in all aspects of high adventure. They run their own rafts on Class III water, climb, backpack, and do it all, even to high altitude (>14000 ft) ice and snow mountaineering. Even the 11 year olds learn boatmanship, and technical

HI guys, great comments. Too true about the point of the BSA from Bob. However, as Quixote said, a very fast way to achieve it is through the outings. This works extremely well with our little Troop. One thing that le Voyager has well stated is the increasing bureaucracy that may or may not be required for running these trips. Sure we have highly padded resumes for this kind of thing, but these certifications also pose a big problem...perhaps an unsurmountable activation barrier to the goal of doing the outings for the average Scoutmaster or Assistant. If we get too specialize

Good Point Bob. Of course all of my Scout boatmen (the older guys) are trained with the same curriculum as my professional guides. They all have this specialized safety and rescue training. All of the Scouts that go on these trips do pass the swim tests, are trained in some swiftwater safety before they can go (they get real interested in learning in order to get to go) as well. Included in the training are extensive throw bag experience, scenarios, and even a requirement for the boatmen...to successfully swim a rapid (and be targets for the throwbag rescuers). In order to do th

Mike Long has brought up a good topic that I really would like to address. These are the BSA requirements for Safety Afloat in general. One requirement is that a qualified BSA Lifeguard be on board on a rafting trip. Our Troop hads a competitive swimmer who ran through this to become a BSA Lifeguard to fulfill this reqirement, and here is the point...what good is he. BSA Lifeguard does not address swiftwater. Of course I trained my guy (more than the others) in swift water safety, rescue etc geared toward river rescue, but if not trained in this specialty, he would be worse than usele

Good...hit a nerve. This is a real gripe with me as well. To answer Bob, I am fully aware that not all Troops are capable of buying rafts, or other gear...DONT. Our Troop is not capable either, I even have to help some kids with money just to come on outings. With my help in looking through newspapers though, they bought one used raft, frame and oars. However, that is not the point. The point is that the High Adventure should be taught to the Scouts such that they can actually do the trip when they later want to go. A lasting legacy, not just a badge. What is important is i

This is from the end of the Co-Ed Scout question which started talking about rafting as a high adventure draw to keep Scouts going. I am a big believer in what the Scouts call High Adventure meaning most any trip not to a Scout Camp or next to cars. Trips like this, in my experience, are what the Scouts really want. OK advancement is part of the ethos too, but the reward is often the outdoor activity. High Adventure retains the kids as they grow older. They crave it and would treasure the technical skills enabling them to duplicate these events themselves. So here is the problem

Hi Folks, TWO Things: 1. One reason that the co-ed stuff is popular is that the Girl Scouts often DO NOT provide the same amount of outdoor opportunities that is available in Boy Scouts! This seems to be the biggest gripe of girls that I have talked to. Fix that and there will not be a big problem. ABOUT RIVERS I am a long time rafter and river person which I have carried on to my Troop. We do this ourselves every year training our Scouts in all the skills necessary to run OUR OWN boats. I would like to address (in another string) this disturbing trend amongst Scoute

Le Voyager may be right. During the Fall and Spring I am in OK where no one cares! However, during the summer I work for an outfitter who might be convenced to offer an intensive short course in an outdoor technical subject. I could ask about special prices for scouters. They might come up with a "certification" as well, though these seem to be based on the reputation of the company (like NOLS) or those who follow some set of guidelines established by a governing body. I do know that AMGA has a "certified" top rope class which a friend took. As for rafting, I don't think there is any

HI guys, This is a bit off the original subject, but I thought I would like to ask if there would be interest in a program to train adult leaders in running high adventure trips such as climbing, mountaineering, white water canoeing and rafting, and maybe even backpacking? JB

From long experience, I believe that the clothing doesn't matter. What matters is doing things. Adventure keeps kids young and old in the troop. If they get to go climbing or rafting, then they will wear the uniforms if they have to, even if they normally wouldn't. During meetings, we always have training sessions geared toward the next outing. If we are going backpacking, we talk about packs, packing them, adjusting them and what to take. The more technical the better they like it. Same for rafting and climbing. JB

OOPS...sorry

Check out Sierra Trading Post www.sierratradingpost.com which sells seconds and closeouts on good name brand gear. Their owners are real Scout supporters. Also check out Campmor www.campmor.com which is also a discount house. Another good group is REI www.rei.com which is good. To see what REI used to look like get hold of MEC (Mountaineering Equipment Co-op of Canada) http://www.mec.ca/Main/home.jsp from which you get also the exchange rate difference. They have GREAT Gore Tex shells, fully exceeding North Face, in my considered opinion, and their logo doesn't cost nearly as much!

When we go backpacking, I always insist on minimalism, light weight and above all, minimum impact. A perfect "model" campsite for our troop means one that has already been used and far enough from the trail not to have people observing you in camp...for both party's privacy. Second, we usually don't make any fire, unless we have an existing fire ring. If there are more than one in a small campsite, we re-habilitate them and consolidate them into one, using of course downed wood. Each small patrol, 1-3 tents, cooks in the small space between the tents, usually lounging inside the tent

HI ScouterPaul Please try it! THat is why I mentioned it. Though I have a lot of experience in several outdoor activities, I am not expert at all. For instance we have a fellow that is a great caver, and has played 'sherpa' in Lechaguilla, done vertical work etc. He is our caving 'ASM Specialist'. We have another who is a very good rock climber, and used to teach at a boy's camp in TX who is our climbing specialist. It doesn't hurt that he is also a professional whitewater guide also. Another one is an accomplished mountaineer. These last two guys helped our Scouts get to 18,30

HI Momscouter THe thread that holds the older boys there is the high adventure, the climbing etc. Once they become addicted to the events, they will do just about anything to keep them going, including hanging around the little kids. I have 3 guys that turned 18 just recently, and 2 are now ASMs and the other helps out occassionally. One of them is highly involved in the technical outdoor training. The formula for the high adventure deal is first to find what you can do in your area. Wyoming is prime for the stuff we do. Second, find practitioners of the activities you like

Though I don't know, I believe that the 'buck naked' sleeping business started with what Slontwovvy mentioned: Wet or damp clothes. I know for a fact (we are from Wyo) that sleeping with dry clothes on is much superior and warmer than without, but the key is dry. We do as Slontwovvy says, have the boys carry a set of completely dry clothes for bed. Everything that was worn on the ski in is removed and replaced. That by itself is worth as much as the technical fabrics and insulations, etc. On short trips, we have them also to put the damp inner clothes under them in the sleeping bag

We have a hard core high adventure Troop with several very popular outing types. XC Skiing, snow camp/caves, ski mountaineering in the winter with climbing, caving, mountain biking, rafting and backpacking in the rest of the year. The way that we now do these is to say to the PLC or nearest equivalent (we are also a small troop) and ask, "what do you want to do?" This results in a 2-3 month plan (which can change, of course). At that point the older boys have to do the logistics of the trip, while the younger boys are trained in the activity, either by the older ones, or more usually

Here is another good link for hypothermia which might be of use. http://www.win.net/~gws/gaelwolf/hpothrm.htm

For SCTMOM For that kind of trip, the most important thing is to actually carry a first aid kit. For light hikes, the most common kind of first aid problem will be foot problems. Blisters (moleskin) possible sprained ankles (stretch bandages), sunburn (sunscreen), and a few bandaids. And of course the knowledge to apply them. A cell phone is also very nice and eliminates the use of runners to get help. Know who to call for each trip...ie the fastest way to connect to EMS. Knowledge is most important...take a Red Cross First Responder class. Second, plan ahead and play the "what-if" ga

Good Point!! Getting dumped on any trip is dangerous, especially in cold water. I liked your post about first aid as well. We should all get on board to learn as much as possible regarding consequences of failure with Scouts in the wilderness. Any more neat tips on Hypothermia, or caring for it?

These are very important and I cannot recommend these courses enough for all of us who take people into the outdoors! I have taken WFR, which is good for 3 years for three times. They are expensive, but better than the alternative. I've not had the chance to get the WEMT though. The usual Red Cross FR courses are all geared toward an event that happens in town, and what you learn is how to keep a victim comfortable and hopefully alive till EMS arrives. The WFR is a detailed class in what to do in the wilderness when you are on your own for however long it takes to get your victi

Here is an interesting and useful web listing concerning paddling and hypothermia. http://www.capital.net/com/nckayak/nck_safety_p4.htm